Does it occur to you that to dropping so many points from winning positions, also requires the tactics/performance to get into a winning position?

You aren’t that stupid mate, you know very well that changing manager is the point.

Edited a lot of assumption out. One player signed for a decent fee and thus we should expect to be play offs, yet you think we need a total rebuild... those expectations don’t make sense. Changing the manager changes the entire philosophy of the club. It’s a huge decision. If we hired someone else, if 12 months down the line we are in the same position, you’d say the same again. It’ll never dawn on you the reason why. Call it stability 2. I call it Memory loss 2.

This thread asked “where do we go from here” directly after the Leeds game, which suggests it’s a question in reaction to a game. If you or the thread is asking me “are we doing well enough this season so far”, the answer is overall is yes but could be better. As I said, expectations need reigning in. @Stuart See above.

Always best not to post in reaction to a game like that. For me the reactive “Mowbray out” all over social media is equally as painful to read as watching Lenihan and Bell tumble over their own players immediately after the kick off at 2-1, and then watching Rothwell’s poor clearance, then nobody try to put a head in the way with 30 seconds left to go. Even after that insane two minutes, we aren’t far off in my opinion, and I think the notion that we might steal a victory at the league leaders absolutely panicked our lads. It’s a constant theme. No wonder we are nervous in them scenarios. Leeds however had a poor afternoon - but they are top for a reason - did the same to Villa a week ago. The performance overall was good though IMO second half especially- but we didn’t expect to go to leeds and control the game did we? The changes worked- Rodwell looked assured and played a calm and confident role - the 5atb formation (when we pushed up) stopped leeds from playing out on the deck. I thought all substitutes had a positive effect, Rothwell for his running (despite a couple of mistakes) and Reed / Smallwood brought so much energy on. Someone mentioned a better leader/more nasty centreback needed. I think these games we’ve thrown away show that should be the next acquisition.

Read the sentence before

My own personal answer to the thread topic; Our expectations need to change, and our opinion of players/manager/staff shouldn’t be based on one or two games against the best teams in this league. The time for big decisions is a long way off.

Detested and had questionable motives.. Any comparison shows a reactive, absense of sense, ignorance of memory and complete lack of respect. Even under Lambert and Bowyer, we had arguably more suitable championship squads- but both (despite better motives) never managed to build any consistency in our results. Tony (imo) needs time to attempt the same at this level, not half a season. The lack of experience in our squad has led to issues with concentration, calmness and confidence when in good positions like yesterday. That to me shows (at least) that we aren’t too far away. Can TM change those “shit the bed” moments? I personally think he will.

Rodwell in for Smallwood, think that might be a good move since the little possession we will have needs to be better utilised. Definitley will miss Ritchie’s effort and energy, but Jack is a far better passer! Two up front with Dack in behind is the way I’d go too.

Yea, just like last time we played Leeds... oh wait!... Seriously though, tough game today. If we aren’t at our best, make a few mistakes or don’t take our chances - we won’t get near them. Hopefully, we will get in their face for set pieces again, crowding the box and keeper for corners, because it worked last time. As for formation, I don’t expect it to change - however the fitness of Mulgrew and Reed is probably the biggest indicator of success for us today. Come on you blues.

1 minute 35 seconds if you want to skip the abject defending... Nice movement, outside of boot strike, cool finish. No more offside than Pukki on Saturday

Merry Christmas lads!!

You wish

Merry Christmas x

Depends on your own expectations. Mine are being met. I expected this season to be one of consolidation back in the championship so I can’t complain personally.

Comparing the two really doesn’t do your point much use. If you think it’s time to change manager, that’s up to you. I personally disagree. Just to add - I think it’s a poor memory to compare TM to the guy who obviously (with his agent and “ownership consultant) hoodwinked the club into ridiculous contracts, signings and feathered his own nest all the way to Brunei.

Changing him went well, didn’t it! Ideally, I’d like a more consistent approach personally - even if we are at this level for a couple of years.

I enjoyed the article overall, great to hear TM say he has “no fear” over Brereton stepping up but also mentions the necessity to have more impact. Always comes across well for me. Never blames players publicly, is passionate about our scenario and talks sense. Graham and Dack are truly our linchpins at the minute, and the onus is on others in the squad to dislodge through a cameo, or replace if the opportunity comes up.

Still, have we ended up forking out more than that on wages of players we’ve hardly even used? You drag it up to try and make a point. The only point you’re making is you’re quite pathetic really.

Reportedly cost 7m. Does that include add ons, percentages, his wages? As others said all wages and costs are estimates because it’s often not fully published. The 7m could easily be 3.5m before 20/30 starts, or include 2m for promotion. Your entire argument is based on the assumption of 1 journo You can talk about agents forcing our hand with wages all you want, but if we had a budget that couldn’t stretch to Bamford (as Tony said in LET in August, couldn’t find quote) why would we then find a similar yearly outlay for Brereton? Just to reiterate my point, since you can’t remember it. I don’t think Brereton is as expensive as he is being discussed, therefore don’t think the expectation should be ramped the way it is. I don’t think he can be judged yet either. If you need that even simpler, drop me a PM.

No. I don’t think their wages will be anywhere near the same. If you’re saying he’s on 18k pw - what are you suggesting Ben is on? Considering our highest paid player last season was Mulgrew on about 15k - I don’t think even our club are stupid enough to put a 19 year old on a leading figure, in front of Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan etc. How much of that fee is upfront? For a team that had a turnover around 10m all in all last season (and made the biggest losses ever recorded in league 1), what convinces you we’ve decided to wax another 10m up the wall on potential?

Which would cost more for this season then?

That’s impossible to answer as it depends on what happens in the four years. On paper now? Is Pukki even on 4 years? I’d say similar or Brereton slightly more but after that time, one is 23, the other 32. It’s easier to just look at this season in terms of outlay; who do you think cost more for this season alone? Even if Brereton is a complete dud, after that time - there will be some potential value for another club to take a punt on because of age. I’d imagine that’s why he refused to sign a new contract then. Also I wouldn’t use the league average to assume the champions, the biggest team in the country pays a certain wage. I’m not arguing that Pukki wouldn’t have been a great signing, but in hindsight transfer business is easy.

The point is you are judging him now. I will continue to remind you he’s a 19 year old lad, who has yet to start.

Do I feel safe? Well to be honest it’s impossible after the previous few years and that includes the constant worry about the debt, but in comparison I’d say we are in a better position overall (squad, league, staff, structure, direction, depth etc) than Bowyer ever had us, and as you know, I rated the job he did too. Style of play is subjective though, so I’d probably argue THERE IS a continuous style idea through all the squads, the problem is, every change of manager will move that basic ideology. If we changed the it suit every change of manager since the Rao’s arrived, it’s no wonder we aren’t producing enough. Travis and co are examples of players on the brink, but I still subscribe to the idea that loaning players out first should happen. Calling it “title winning” makes it seem more than it should, I’m not saying it’s a non-achievement but it means nothing in relation to the step up to the first team in my view. Travis, Butterworth, Nuttall - 6 months at league 1/2 level and they’ll come back better players. The ones that struggle to break through into those lower league teams simply aren’t ready to be in ours. Even if they’ve been fantastic in the u23.