To be honest I don't really mind whether our scouting is done by video analysis, watching players in the flesh or consulting mediums as long as it extends beyond ex-Boro players and "Big 6" kids on loan...

Actually I am far from alone in that. That seems to be somewhat revisionist. For example Four Four Two had predicted them to be highly placed the last couple of years: https://fanbanter.co.uk/fourfourtwo-predict-the-20-21-championship-table/ Their fans said stuff like: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11688/12068240/championship-fans-predict-their-clubs-fate-for-the-2020-21-season And their fan interviewed in Four Four Two predicted them 8th (seperate to pundits opinions above, apologies only have that in paper format.) So the idea that no one thought they had a decent squad doesn't seem to hold much water. I will acknowledge they were playing badly when he took over but from November onwards there was hardly a massive uptick in form. It seems that the team was underperforming and not doing as expected. And that's a fair bit of time to get it right in a season. And as you ignored he had a massive helping hand from Covid. Rotherham having to play so many games in succession, Sheff Weds without their new manager due to Covid, the points deduction. Any one of those didn't happen and it most likely would have been a different story.

Really? Last season with a decent squad they were worse than us and finished below us. That's not a great indication that he is doing well. In fact they were very lucky to stay up and only a points deduction AND Covid significantly impacting two relegation rivals saved them. If anything he is lucky to be managing this season in the Championship. This season has admittedly been more challenging circumstances, but it's very early days. One win in 3, throwing away the lead in injury time Vs Posh (I think) again doesn't shout out that he is doing a great job.

Could you get a weaker right wing then Gally and Buckley? Forest are poor, we are poor. Think though we should get something out of it but the 5 at the back worries me. Has it ever worked for us?

Surely this shows that loans can be risky and problematic as well? Some of them were utter flops, especially the youngsters. Also reminds us how Coyle was dealt a terrible hand. Sold all his best players with no money to replace them. Whereas we have Travis and Nayambe he had Lowe and Henley. The man got a terrible deal. Mind you he didn't half make the worst of such a deal. So, so many poor signings - frees and loans. And paying a fee for Williams...

I get your point and it has some merit but not all free transfers are old mercenaries. The example you use has in it arguably our best centre forward of the last 5 years and a chap who captained us to promotion and did well for us in his first season here. The other three are pretty, actually very, gash though. If anything this proves the point that some free transfers can be good but others need to be steered well clear of.

One of the many issues with building a side with loans is that there can be question marks about their commitment to the cause. Especially premiership youngster loans or those on big contracts elsewhere if we go down it doesn't make much difference to them. I seem to recall João and Emmes not being too professional in the run in with Rovers for example. So having a lad who actually is bothered about the club is a plus and negates that worry regarding the loan. Actually having a body through the door, albeit on loan, also is a huge benefit too.

Millwall, Stoke, Boro, Cardiff off the top of my head play that way. Unsure if other teams do as well. Luton? QPR? Forest? I imagine it's not that rare at this level.

Pleased with this point more than the Swansea game (although obviously 3 points is better). Much more of a challenge - physical opposition, an astute manager and a tough atmosphere. A far cry from a much depleated Swansea team favouring style over effectiveness. Of course the worrying signs are all there to see with the daft tactics and formation but to be picking up points despite that is a positive sign. It suggests we could stay up this season.

Genuine question - when has anything under this lot been done for the long term? Reliance on loans and crocks, contracts wound down, pricing structure for games - nothing i can think of is with a view to the long term. Not disagreeing that we need to ensure survival this season mind, although how this is done is another question.

Whilst all managers do it there is a huge difference between the two examples given - and I am not talking about prem quality manager Vs incompetence. Some of the TM deals are very, very dodgy. It's been done to death but no way the nature of the Pears or Ayala deals should have been done by us. Contract lengths in particular being very odd. Factor in that Downing wasn't needed / used last season as well and you begin to see a very uncomfortable pattern.

Statistically speaking it must be very unlikely as a coincidence. After all how many clubs are there, or even narrowing it down a bit now many teams have played in the championship over the last 5 years? Even at the most basic fag packet maths assuming each player has played for 3 of the 23 other championship clubs previously, the odds would not be that so many would have a Boro connection. What tips the odds even further is it's hardly as of Boro are a centre of excellence for young talent and are thereby developing more youngsters. Nor have they been successful recently needing a turnover of players at a new level. All in all it is a very unlikely situation.

Agree. Tell you what, I reckon if the Barnsley owners had implemented their plan with Rovers starting base rather than Barnsley's (assuming they potted TM) the project would have gotten over the line.

Kean is scum of the earth and the lowest of the low. All that said it has only been under TMs watch that the training ground has tries to be sold off and it's the only time we've been told fans have expectations of 95. He won't reach Kean levels but my word, TM is trying his best to.

Whilst I think we may have to think laterally to get the most out of the squad I'm not sure this would be the move I would try. For starters the technique of Gally isn't that great and you need to be a more intelligent footballer to play that position. Also there's a heck of a difference between putting yourself about a bit and being able to tackle. No, Gally really is what he seems, a poor man's Jason Roberts, causing havoc for other forwards or an impact sub/plan B (his stats from the bench Vs starting are a remarkable contrast.) Sadly he isn't used well in the former and we can't afford for him to be the latter.

We just need the 4-2-2-2 and then someone must have a full house.

This throws me both on everything they have done in the past and the current poor situation. Can't get my head round it at all.

Much as I love a good cup run and hate not taking them seriously we are relegation candidates and we do have a thin squad. So less games will hopefully help our relegation scrap. That said when we won the League cup it gave us a boost for the relegation battle and a good cup run can boost moral. So perhaps a run would have been better for us. But for once I am not too disappointed by our early exit. As for the rest it shows what TM is like but nothing we didn't know.

What really annoys me about saying we can use all these youngsters is the assumption that they will all make the required standard. this does not happen! Having watched football for many years I cannot recall an entire squads worth of youth players all at once making the grade. Not here, not anywhere else. So why on earth should we ignore the precident of every other year and team and assume all positions will be covered by our youth? I'm sure some will make it, but I'm certain some won't.

Until none are replaced...

Think I agree on the whole one was bound to come good, and it is more than overshadowed by the huge and costly deals that he has done permanently and on loan that have caused so much damage to the club. Walton alone or the first two years of Bereton would have gotten some managers the boot. Disagree the sell on clause in itself is a bad move for Rovers. Combined with the last year of his contract it is very damaging but in isolation the reduced transfer fee to buy him should have more than been made up in the sale. Letting your star asset run down his contract though - criminal. Agree it's a huge number of goals to lose and even if we had just lost those two they would have taken a lot of replacing. Not sure any one or two other players will give us that amount of goals. That said I fear that the loss of the other players will be felt even if they weren't that good. As we learn repeatedly under Venkys something is better than nothing and we often see leaving without replacing. Yes most of the rest who have left were dross and lower end championship players at best (ok some were top end league 1 players) but without them being replaced we are reliant on youngsters coming in at that level. That's a big ask and many won't be/will need a few years toughening up in lower leagues. It puts enormous pressure on our young players, some of whom will be ruined due to being thrown in too soon. And somehow despite their loss, if not adequately replaced we are in a worse position.

I would imagine Southampton and Rovers both want the player moving as it bumps up the fee for both sides. For us it's income (of a sort) that doesn't have a chunk go to Newcastle. For them if they don't really want the player it's increasing the value without them using more catch. In a straight cash deal I would imagine we would not break the £20 million mark.

Well we have no new signings and according to the manager haven't worked on a style of play (and presumably alongside it tactics as they go hand in hand.) Anywhere else both would see heads roll, here it's business as usual. That said if we had to play anyone in said circumstances Swansea is as good as any. A new manager whose selling point is his philosophy over any achievements and a squad that has seen wholesale.changes too. All in all great first opponents for us. Ben will be on a high from his summer antics, the youngsters will have something to prove and be fired up. All in all I'm convinced we will get something from the game. Of course said enthusiasm won't last long but it will last longer than today, I feel especially given the opposition will be tentative. With both clubs liking to pass it around the back pointlessly I feel it could be a boring game but I think home field and enthusiasm will take us over the line. 2-1 Rovers.

Oh it's pretty stupid if it happens before the season start too. No long term planning, no assets, no experience and stunts our own players' growth. Whilst not adverse to loans in principle in our situation loading up on young loanees is a terrible way to go.

Agree the guy humiliates us. Mind you he is in good company with the owners and CEO on that score. There were a host of other issues with the comment I didn't go into (I felt 1 covered it) but a whopping 4th could be what about a style that suits the other 15-20 in the squad?