Indeed, it's a heck of an evasive action. I mean I expected a whimper and a loss but even so TM manages to continue to negatively exceed expectations.

Shocking. Only time I have seen us mauled at home was Vs Arsenal when we lost 4-1 but that was against the best team in the country with the best midfield combo around (Viera and Petit). Even then we bagged a goal. This lot are a yo-yo team who have been beaten by others in the championship. Not an insurmountable opponent. Mind you nearing the playoffs we were never going to win. Can't get too high under Total Mess. I don't know what hurts more - the result or the fact it makes no difference.

Good post. I think your point about the midfield lacking bite and being able to impose itself is spot on and why for me we perhaps aren't a top 6 starting 11. I'd also question whether we can guarantee the strikers (bar Ben) can impose themselves enough/stick it away enough for a really sustained challenge. However their goal return is pretty decent so perhaps that's me being overly negative. The midfield though, definitely needs to dominate more. As you say the squad is what lets us down. The loss of two or three key players makes a huge difference. No cover for Nayambe, I know we seem to get goals but without Bereton I would be worried, very few positive changes to be made after the first 11. The drop in quality after the first 11 is quite scary. Mind you I remember the Dingles getting promoted with a paper thin squad and few injuries so it is possible. But I do think, even if we avoid serious injuries, we are a bit of midfield dominance away from managing it if I am honest

Agree. Rather crucial.

My biggest worry about tonight's game is we are perilously close to the playoffs. A win could see us inside them. That's got to harm our chances.

I appreciate this is football analysis at its most I'm depth but Norwich are utterly stuffed.

Don't worry it only matches you ignoring all of theirs. Huge financial backing, a number of years to get it right, bottles a ton of semis and then a final - not sure there can be any complaints that he goes. Mind you, I've never thought arseing it up at Cardiff was a particularly good criteria for selecting a manager. Playing and managing are very different as countless examples show. All that said as a Rovers fan I would give him a contract for life there.

Can it also be noted no other manager has alluded to comparisons with the Premiership winning team. Not other dross we have had like Ince or Kidd and not even the odious one told such a lie. Just let that sink in - even Mr Dew on the Grass didn't say supporters compared the team to the Premiership winning one.

Y'know I have never seen a manager be given so much time and backing, and a fair bit of dosh, to land us with such a poor squad, make so many glaring errors and yet still give us such a hard luck story. Incredible.

Erm no we can't. We can't pay the going rate for them when they are known and don't cost us a transfer fee, so the idea we can replace them with similar quality with the barriers of finance and locating them is implausible in the extreme.

A bit embarrassed to say I missed this one even being on! Mind you, after the weekends debacle and the performance in this game perhaps a blessing in disguise. There's so many things wrong with this team it would be funny if it wasn't true. More by error than design we have a solid first 11 which due to lack of options has forced some consistency and a decent start. However as soon as injuries bite, or we have a few options, TM goes and messes it up. I still can't get my head round the fact that the loan defensive cover for injuries still isn't up to speed half way through October. Given we brought him injured this surely classes as gross incompetence. The 3 centre backs rears its head again, because it's only failed 9 times out of 10 when we have used it before. Seems a bit Blackadder "they'll never expect that the 111th plan is the same as the 110th" (not sure what the actual numbers are.) Why we use it when even the mighty Morecambe beat us when we used it is beyond me. None of our first 11 can have an off game. There's no spare capacity or options to cope with this. Mind you it's a good picture of what next year's team will look like. The loans - blimey if it wasn't bad enough relying on good loans, we now have a ton of crap ones. I mean it was never a sound strategy when they were good, but now they are poor it makes it even worse. Again after some of the dross we have had here on loan it's comical that we still have substandard loans. TM and Waggott never learn. Still there's a ton of crap teams in the Championship. We won't go down yet, despite us continuing to dismantle the team. After all after 4-5 years with no pressure and decent money, what can you expect but a bare bones squad. Negligent is the only way to describe this shower.

Indeed. Imagine it would have been more use put to contract renewals.

I think the quote "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" comes to mind here. It's a problem when there is no one else vaguely near competent to play there.

The only former Rovers player who I think is comparable to Bereton - assuming he leaves at the end of this season - is MacCarthy under Hughes. Both had one great season where they lead the line for us, and were indifferent for the rest of their time here. Both in their indifferent spells had their weaker performances mitigated by the fact other strikers were taking on the mantle. Both we are likely to see a return on our investment on (unless Bereton runs down his contract which I don't see happening.) MacCarthy is seen as a good signing despite being a one season wonder so I imagine Bereton will be too. Of course there are some big differences. Of course we should make a profit on Bereton, albeit getting out money back for someone of MacCathy's age was a good return. Also what we should get for Bereton will be less due to another final year saga. One difference is that MacCarthy wasn't a huge outlay as in the majority of our budget, nor were there as many pressing issues in the team to be filled, either when recruited or when he left. All of these differences does make the Bereton situation a little less palitable and positive. But thought it was an interesting comparison as there aren't many players who bombed for most of their career with us and had one great season for Rovers.

Given he was having a half decent season, Armstrong was off and the only other option was Gally, I'm pretty sure most fans would have given him a new contract.

One other thing on Rothwell regardless of exactly how good he is, are we going to replace him with better? And how much would replacing him even with the same quality cost? If the cost of replacing like for like costs more than the contract upgrade for him, we have made a mistake. Unless we can get significantly better, letting him go will be a mistake. Also given how threadbare the squad is getting, do we have the capacity to replace another player?

Brilliant, brilliant post. Top marks! Hang on at no point in that post does he advocate spending into embargo. It's a bit naughty to bring this up when it isn't any part of the post and certainly not the only alternative to our ffp ahem, "policy". In fact the alternatives in one respect don't impact the critique of the current situation. IE the merits of our policy (ha ha) Plus even if he did mention it previously any engagement with the rational for doing so, as JH seems to elaborate on his points well - as oppose to sarky comments and missing the point of others posts.

Indeed but no one was comparing us to the title winning team. That's a very big difference from thinking we should be premier league.

No one, literally not one fan, has compared us to or had current expectations for us influenced by winning the Premier League. It was an utter whopper to suggest that fans were comparing the current situation to then, it's simply not true. As for the rest, as I said. If not outright lies they are dishonest and disingenuous as they don't share the context of how these came about or the fact, as you say, that they are all problems of his own making.

Well the fans comparing us to the 95 and comparing them to the Premier League winning team is one whopper that springs to mind. As is his moans about not having experience when he just signs kids (not just from this season) or complaining not having enough defenders when he stacked up midfielders and ignored the defence. Maybe not outright lies but these are certainly distortions of the truth, lies by omission and generally not very honest assessments.

The horse hasn't just bolted it's buggered off out of the county and is sipping on a pint somewhere near Dover. Nayambe has been dropped for every man and his dog, including some pretty substandard players such as Caddis and Bennett. Rothwell has played in more positions in midfield than I thought was feasibly possible. He also had a fair few years of bouncing in and out of the team. Bereton was woefully out of his depth for 2 years and horribly mismanaged during that time. Game time via a loan away was obvious to everyone and yet it never came. Also all three have directly and indirectly criticised by TM in the media. Poor do when others haven't. The evidence suggests that we aren't offering the going rate and we are unarguably starting negotiations far too late into the contracts. All in all we have set ourselves up to fail in these negotiations. The only plus is we have so few players now that they are guaranteed game time. But too little too late I fear.

Smart move cashing in. Glad to hear of Rovers fans doing well. Another compelling reason to cash in is aside from injury or transfer away it's not beyond the realms of possibility he gets to 18 goals with half a dozen games left and TM begins to play him at left back for the remaining fixtures...

Two issues here. Firstly the owners have forced us into a situation where there is a 20 million a year need for them. Hardly praise worthy or gratitude inducing. That's a bit like me pushing you over a cliff and holding onto your ankle and the argument being you should be grateful for me saving your life. Secondly, get a few basics right and maybe there's not a 20 million a year deficit! From actually signing our players to long term contracts ahead of 11th hour attempts to do so through to not being a charity case for past it and not needed players that 20 million loss really starts to shrink. Then a bit of reengagement with fans. That we had a full house for the promotion party after years of being dumped on shows the potential is still there with a bit of nous to reclaim our fan base (or some of it.) Biggest way of helping is to get Premier League and that really isn't going to happen under this lot. A dose of that money would make things a fair bit more manageable. In short, to me, things are much more doable with better owners. Problem is they are never going to go.

That I think is where I land on this. Factor in as well that weakest of managers seem to have one good club in them - even the Ince's and Coyle's of the world. So the odds that we don't get a good manager or the mediocre to duff manager who is the right fit - those are long odds is 11 years. It's hard to think of another club who.have had 11 years of rank poor management. If it were chance and random what they were doing we would have got a right fit by now.

Yes to all three. Will admit Lambert had me fooled though. If you are asking were these appointments less crap than the others, then the answer is yes.