Pretty gutted by the comments our new signings dictate our style of play. It makes me wonder two things: 1) Could we get any more unprofessional. A terrible way to do it, and somehow even more foolhardy given said players will be loans and change year on year. 2) How does anyone hearing this stuff not roll on the floor laughing and question this bull? It's utter madness yet no one challenges it. Joke owners, joke CEO, joke manager. An utter insult to the club and I can only hope and pray the whole lot do one asap.

I think so. Younger and has pace but far less proven, especially at a higher level.

Before we bank on these premier League loans they could be Elliott and Tosin standard OR they could be the next Palmer and Walton. To be in this situation after 4 years of journeying is a joke. Will be interesting to see if/how much better off we are than when we got promoted or even under Coyle.

Indeed but given our track record of signings can you blame anyone for being wary? Another case of other clubs surprisingly also wanting players.

We'll never know. Given how much Wycombe rallied (showing it's possible) and if the pressure had been increased a bit more on ourselves and Derby (who only just missed out on relegation) through even just one more positive result for Rotherham would have caused I think they could have stayed up. Still it is academic and as you say it was grim enough for us regardless of relegation worries with 2 wins in 17. Not that it seems to matter much round Ewood these days.

Ah yes, who can forget that infamous excuse? However Wednesday and Rotherham both had legitimate gripes. The former losing their manager for a fair number of games the latter having to play a ton of games in short order. Personally I think without this we would most likely have gone down.

Not to mention their manager was absent with Covid for a number of games as well. They had a tough deal. Covid really did decide a lot of the relegation places last year.

There are countless examples of good players who get relegated. Graham with us and Pickford with Sunderland are the two that immediately spring to mind. Wouldn't write off a player just because they got relegated.

Yes. Although reckon he will have made a few of those add one. Not any promotion ones but games or goals related.

That's a fair point but again as you say it's a big if. And if I were another club and saw how many key players were running down their deals with only a year or two years left at Rovers, I would be confident that we wouldn't get our act together and get him a new contract. If it were me I would be looking to get a good part exchange in. 40% of a part exchange doesn't go to the barcodes. I'm not talking unproven youngsters but given how much Premier League teams hoard players and how threadbare the squad is, there surely must be an exchange or two to be done that is beneficial to us.

There's an interesting article on BBC as well backing up some of these points. In the vain hope of finding clubs worse than us this season Swansea and Derby seem to be trying to knock the relegation certs off of us. They seem in a bad, bad way. Difference being they have smartly recruited and been the right end of the table despite their struggles.

It's the one year left thing BDS. From what I see I think the two are comparable and fee wise we should be looking at that kind of fee. But one year left often reduces fees by at least a third so assuming 26 mill is the going rate 17 mill would be about right. Add in that we are desperate and it's not a good situation.

I would also add the sell on clause wasn't the issue. The issue was us letting him get to the last year of his contract along with having the most sorry lot of strikers available and everyone else decent running their contracts down too. Any one of these issues being addressed and the sell on clause is not so much of an issue.

Not sure on Armstrong going for £20 mill (given last year of contract and how desperately we are hawking him). But your last paragraph is spot on and a huge worry. We have let a lot of players on significant wages go plus all the loans and yet no one has come in. We have lost so, so many players and to not even have replaced one is a very worrying situation. The squad was short last season (albeit injuries contributed to this a lot) so without them it's only going to be more threadbare. And it takes time to get up to speed. It's a Coyle situation all over again. Taps off and the drips we do get come in late. It's going to cost us in August (and the rest of the season) big time.

Regarding Rothwell the phrase "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" comes to mind. Yes, Rothwell hasn't pulled up any trees here and only shown flashes of being a good player. However given the central midfield options are the over the hill Johnson, the perennially injured Davenport and the lightweight Buckley, my word, Rothwell would be a big loss. Bravo Tony, you've got it to the point where the loss of anyone half decent is a huge blow.

Worst excuse ever along with other teams did better than we thought. Those aren't excuses those are the everyday circumstances of the job. I mean what next, an accountant complaining they had to add up numbers? We are so unprofessional it's untrue. How on earth can the everyday occurances of football throw us? We are an utter joke. Waggot is a joke. TM is a joke. Sod off the lot of you, do one. Excuses like this show you are taking the piss and are woefully unable to meet even the most basic of standards. Also was Waggot not challenged on this? Not sure where this quote came from as didn't read that far back (fans forum, LET) but surely his guff should be challenged? Stuffed if I know how they get such a free pass. I hate supporting Rovers these days. It's a circus from top to bottom. Shame you can't just pick a new one cause this lot constantly take the piss and are killing us slowly.

Same! Remember hearing this from primary school upwards. Sure there was always one pillock who shot every time he got the ball regardless of options and needed to be told to look around and think. But overall the encouragement was to not be afraid to have a go. Also there's some pretty shocking keepers out there! A B or C shots would trouble the likes of Walton and Leuits and at lower level (non professional) mistakes are common so it always seems to me to be worth a crack if there isn't a better option on.

Good post Gav, made me think. Think it's phraseology. Would certainly concede they could be classed as positive outcomes but that isn't the same as reason to be optimistic. (I know, I know, I used the two interchangeably.) What I was trying to say (badly!) is that there are many things to look forward to, going to games being a key one, but that's not really much room for optimism of how we will do. It's something to look forward to but it doesn't suggest we will do particularly well. We may look forward to going but it doesn't give any cause for optimism or hope that we aren't a shambles on or off the pitch. In fact I would say no matter how much enthusiasm or lack I have thereof all indicators are it's full steam ahead to destination shambles. As for not all about promotion and playoffs I'm a little bit torn by that comment. On one hand I hope it is. I mean that's the aim of any game - to win. How realistic it is is perhaps a different matter but the aim of a football club is to be as successful as possible. So in some ways it is aiming to doing this, that's what it is all about, winning games and getting promotion. As Barnsley showed getting to the playoffs, as Brentford's slow build showed - it can and should be the target for all clubs to work towards. On the flip side I get that isn't the only measure of success. Under Hughes I didn't expect a Champions League place (we got close though). But we had a talented team, who fought for the shirt and we were well run on and off the pitch. That was a standard I was happy with and would be so again (in a Championship equivalent way.) Thing is Gav, whichever view we take there's no reason for optimism because both are well out of reach. A well run club punching above its weight or promotion chasers - neither look likely under these chancers. So yeah no cause for optimism imo. And for me simply existing is not enough, especially when we are run, and often play, like a shower.

None of which is a reason to be optimistic. Excited to go, yes, but not a reason or evidence that suggests a positive outcome.

I think my other issue is in all this I'd feel a lot better about the situation if TM wasn't in charge. A good manager could make the likes of Rothwell and Gally into useful tools and assets, lowering our recruitment needs significantly. Under TM unless they are really good it often doesn't turn out so well.

I'll be honest I'm not too sure of that team. The defence could be pretty solid but only when (if) Warton comes back from his injury the same player. Plenty don't. At best case scenario we won't be seeing the benefits of this until mid-September earliest. Midfield, I'd be worried about Davenport's fitness. I think Rothwell in a 3 has looked decent and could perhaps fill in there, but again there's a few gambles from Davenport's fitness through to Rothwell/s consistency. Up front there's a lot of pressure on Bereton and Dolan. Both have showed some promise last season but have a long way to go to be consistent in this league. That's a heck of a step up for both of them. So yeah, the team isn't too shabby. But it isn't that strong either. And as you say when you consider it's a squad game, then things get very worrying. Add in TM as manager and it gets even worse.

Any sort of player I would agree with. Don't do it for the sake of it. And certainly not some crock. Haven't we learnt enough from Ayala, Evans etc. to know that it costs us? So yes anyone with a dubious fitness record stay away from. But decent players in positions we need? That's another story. There's no 40 percent sell on fee with them. We get all the benefit. Another benefit of this is there should be someone suitable. Goodness we are short in most positions so the chances of there being someone decent that we would want in a position we need strengthening is likely. The other bonus if it's a permanent transfer is we actually have an asset and we have a bit more consistency to the squad long term. Any money would go on Tony doing Pep or Jurgen a favour. So yeah, player exchange really works for me.

I would take that. They are sucking all the joy out of Rovers one step at.a time. It's death by a thousand cuts at Ewood.

On Armstrong players are the best way to alleviate the sell on fee to the barcodes so I would be very much in favour of players in part exchange. As others have stated however they cannot be crocks - we simply can't afford that.