My thoughts too. Add in his comments being alarmingly Kean-esque and we have a much worse a manager than Coyle. In a perverse sort of way that is TMs biggest achievement to date here.

Bradley sodding Johnson. Just as I started to get happy about Evans and Bell going as well. Hard to see the logic behind this. He's looked unfit ever since he has joined us, another year on the clock won't do anything to help that either. His performances have been horrifically inconsistent. Very good 1 in 4, a liability 1 in 3. It's like russian roulette playing him in midfield. Not sure how performances warrant a contract extension. Then you have the past history of resigning Downing for a year which tanked. Seems stupid to try the same risky strategy with another aging player. Buggered if I know how a 34 (35?) year old fits into the journey and our plans. Especially one who is a dead weight in a third of the games he plays. Cannot see the logic of this whatsoever.

Brilliant post. Thing is your flat earth illustration is sadly not too dissimilar to his actual statements, as in they are utterly at odds with reality. Rovers fans remembering and expecting Premiership wins, Covid affecting us and not others, acclimatising to the championship are almost as detached from reality and as easy to debunk as flat earth theory. We are into that level of rediculousness and yet it still remains unchallenged.

This is so true. Buckley started doing well in the midfield 3 and was dropped and before that there were a ton of players dropped after a good game. Others have stayed in even in terrible form. TM is hugely inconsistent in this. I think it was because he has to show an asset worth something to get a sale and plus points off the owner and that clearly isn't going to happen with Ben or Gally.

Good shout that. Mods can you please merge.

So as the dust settles on what can only be described as a disappointing season, I thought it would be interesting to see how bad people actually thought the season was. Whilst most (all?) on here don't think it was good enough, I suspect many of the fanbase outside of here are disappointed but not to the extent of seeing TM leave. There's been plenty of excuses offered and a number of signs of encouragement that some point to as well. However, there has also undeniably been a lot of poor results and worrying signs. So how bad was it really? Firstly the positives. Gally and Bereton both don't look a complete waste of space. Neither are at the point of looking good but both have shown they offer something. Bereton seems a bit of a flat track bully to me, who I don't think we can count on under any sort of pressure, but that's still a huge upgrade on previously. Gally has been hampered by TM's insistence of playing him out of position, but a number of goals, especially from the subs bench, suggest he might be decent as a plan B or as squad player at centre forward. There've also been some thumping results, which are always nice to see and the keeper question has looked to be solved with the (overall) quietly competent Kaminski giving a bit of stability to an otherwise difficult season. Armstrong's development is also a huge plus, and is a huge assett to Rovers whether he stays (unlikely) or provides next year's transfer budget. Then there's mitigating circumstances. TM was unlucky to lose both Warton and Dack to long term injuries. Perhaps Dack's return wasn't being handled particularly well, but to lose two players in key positions to long term injuries, whilst part and parcel of the game, is nevertheless a cruel blow. Less mitigating circumstances however was Covid. An excuse TM has often used but actually it worked in our favour. It made clubs with more finances perhaps a little less willing to spend. It took some daunting away fixture crowds out of the equation. Having a manager in place for 4+ years meant all of the team building, communicating ideas and other hinderances that came with Covid protocols should have had less effect on ourselves who had 4 years to build said culture and communicate ideas. At the bottom of the table it massively lessened the fear of relegation kiboshing two of the three who in the end went down. If anything, whilst terrible for the country, Covid helped Rovers. Then there's the negatives. Sadly there are so many. Poor transfers - nailed on, especially Ayala, an injury prone player in a position full of injury prone players. Players out of position - Tony outdid himself with placing Elliott in a place where he couldn't be effective and Gally at right back was the stuff of utter madness. The tombola came out regularly meaning the team and formation was constantly chopping and changing, leaving it very difficult to get any semblance of a plan or consistency. The one win in 16 was something no other manager would have survived. The 6 straight losses were particularly galling as none was against particularly strong opposition. And, most disappointingly, TM's comments utterly rivaled Kean. They were that low. Rovers fans expecting glory due to winning the Premiership, Nayambe's in out injury situation, and the project reset and acclimatisation to the championship that all were utterly pond scum-esque comments. The Coventrio tried to get rid of the training grounds on the sly, destroying Jack's legacy further, in what was another horrible situation for the season. Goodness, there has been a lot of crap in this season hasn't there. Which gives me to my overall rating of the season as a D-. Armstrong and a few thumping results save it from being an E, as does the fact we managed the none-too-laudable achievement of not doing a Hull and getting relegated. But it was pretty crap I think. And a huge opportunity missed. No doubt a decent top and tail will keep TM safe and the happy clappers clapping into next season. How bad do others think it was?

Hope Rotherham stay up. Shame both they and Wednesday can't as both have been more shafted by Covid than us (yet made less of a fuss than Total Mess about it.) On the subs maybe TM wants them to get a send off from the fans for their great service. No problems with that theory whatsoever...

Hadn't realised that, thanks. On another note would love it, love it for Derby to go down. From the dodginess of the Rooney signing to the car crash incident handling they are a rotten club. Would love to see them drop down.

This is encouraging for the future. We can do over the weaker sides which makes me breath a little easier for next season. Gally and Bereton aren't totally useless. That said we still ain't going to do well next year or any other with TM in charge, but there's a bit of hope that we might be able to avoid the drop.

Like you say @roversfan99 it's pretty subjective but I can certainly see your argument. Personally I think we strongly edge the likes of Boro and Cardiff, especially as you say they have a strong manager and we haven't seen any of our players have that boost or allow them to show their potential. Reading you make a good case for and I may have to revise that. Perhaps it's a legacy of seeing a number of poor Reading teams over the years and that they have been hot and cold over this year (more hot tbf) and thinking the cold looks very poor. They'd be the playoff team I think is clearly the weakest. Still opinions are what make football interesting and either way am sure we all agree we have hugely underperformed.

Certainly does look more dicey next season, I will give you that. But was our squad better or worse than Boro or Reading or Cardiff for example. I'd say better than all of those. Travis, Elliott, the City defender whose name temporarily escapes me, Nayambe, Kaminski, Lenihen, Armstrong, Rothwell. All good championship level players who can perform well at this level. Then you have talent like Holtby when fit, Gally is useful when used properly (and has done ok as a plan B for us). Warton looks comfortable at this level and of course Dack although neither in the first list due to injury. Heck even Williams is ok back up at centre back and Johnson can have occasional good days. So for me this season even with the transfers we did that squad should be finishing about 7th or 8th. And if a manager could have got them all performing or over performing slightly then that's playoffs for us. So even if not promotion material we should have had a huge crack at promotion. And that's with what we had. Just think had we recruited just a bit better we would have been massively stronger. Had we not wasted money on Ayala - practically any other CB would have had more of a positive impact - then the squad would have been even better equipped for top 6. But I am digressing into transfers. The squad really should have been in or around top 6. Next season though, like you I am more wary.

Can't see Rotherham winning. Shame as they have been dealt a bum deal with Covid. When TM complains about Covid challenges people should point him to Rotherham's situation and highlight that's what a Covid impacted season looks like.

Thing is @Bigdoggsteel whilst not a guaranteed top 6 team if you look at a couple of the teams that are in it, our squad compares favourably to Barnsley and a lot of the chasing pack too. So definitely underperforming imo.

Armstrong and Kaminski are the only 2 candidates really. Hard to see any of the others launching even a vague challenge. (Elliott maybe?) Poor do that when you consider that there were 3 or 4 strong candidates the year we got promoted or in any other year of success.

Blimey if the players needed to acclimatise after a season in league 1 then they are very delicate wall flowers. It's total bull. Raya had experience of playing in 2 seasons of the championship. Lenihen and Nayambe had some, albeit limited, championship exposure. Mulgrew had a year of championship with us and then had played for Celtic before that. Bennett and Evans, a number of seasons in championship with us. Evans at Hull before that in the, erm Championship. Graham hadn't played league 1 since Carlisle after stints in the championship and premiership for years. Armstrong had played for Bolton in the championship, whilst Bereton was also at a championship club. Dack Bell and Smallwood yes, had come up from league 1. 2 of them were (I think) in the League 1 team of the season so in theory wasn't a huge jump. However 3 of your core 15-16 players is hardly a bunch of newbies who have no idea what they are getting into. Also how on earth does Covid affect us and no one else? I mean, on what planet can that be said with a straight face? And even if it did affect us badly how come smaller clubs like Preston, Reading and Barnsley have out performed us in these circumstances?

Evans going is brilliant news. Excluding the injuries - which have been a ridiculous amount - and the piss take of being fit for internationals, he isn't very good. In fact he only looked good in league 1 which is about his level. Poor player. Tin hat on time but I would have rather kept Smallwood than Evans. Not saying Smallwood was great but at least he can tackle. Evans looks very busy but actually isn't particularly good at any part of the game. Holtby - disappointing but the right call. Heck of a talent but too inconsistent and injury prone. As an individual case he's worth letting go, but questions need to be asked why very few gambles come off for Rovers, especially when there is talent there. I'd prefer us to keep JRC and Nayambe and think we have extensions to protect us for another year. As for the rest none are a great loss and certainly aren't value for money. It does have shades of Bowyer's last year all over it however which is a tad ominous.

On Holtby he's certainly got talent and can put in a cracking performance but far too injury prone and inconsistent. Problem is that both criticisms can be leveled at too many of our other players too for it to be coincidence. Which means we are either appalling at recruiting or not getting enough consistency out of players. Either way it's a managerial failing.

No arguments on Rovers focussing on developing others' talent over our own. I appreciate what you are saying on Elliott and I think there's a fair bit to it. My counter would be if he didn't have those weaknesses he wouldn't be on loan, certainly not in the championship, and we wouldn't have had him if he were more of the finished article. A lot of players in this division have weaknesses. Good managers compensate for them and ensure they have the least effect possible on the team. TM really didn't do that well with Elliott in that regard, especially when played as one of a midfield three rather than front three. In either position with what Elliott was adding, it was far more than his weaknesses. Had we a better set of midfielders covering for example, his weaknesses I think wouldn't have been as noticeable. It's only when factored in alongside an immobile central midfield (bar Travis when fit) and a lack of physicality from strikers that it becomes a bigger problem. As you say though, there are still areas to work on his game, and ultimately Liverpool are the winners in this. Far from being the final pieces of the jigsaw to push us into playoffs, our loan signings are essential for us functioning. Not a healthy way to run a club whatsoever. Also TM managed to nullify his strengths as well as not compensate for his weaknesses with his false 9 guff. That takes a special class of manager.

Indeed, that makes things even worse. Even if we do get 24 million for him - which we really, definitely, won't - that would still work out as about 14-17 million (depending on whether it's a sell on on the transfer fee or just profit). Good but still not in the same league. More likely, with my most optimistic calculation of a £20 million pound sale, we'd be looking at 13 million, and if it's my more realistic calculation of £16 million we'd be looking at around 12. And 12 million as we have discovered, does not buy a decent striker round these parts...

As usual towards the end of the season (as well as at the half way point) I often start a thread evaluating how well, or badly, we have done in the transfer market. This is my thoughts on this year's incomings. Kaminski - 9 The chap has a huge advantage in following Walton, on whom a traffic cone would have been an upgrade. Even when dialling back the enthusiasm for having a keeper who doesn't drop a clanger per match as per the previous incumbent, he's been pretty good. There's been a few errors and erratic moments of late, which isn't great, but when you factor in his fee (£700K I think) then he is still hugely value for money, even with a few erratic moments. Another positive is that he suits our passing style, which is only marred by the fact very few of his team mates also suit this style... Pears - 3 Given we haven't paid a fee in three years for a defender (Pickering counts for next year) it is head scratching that we paid a fee for a reserve keeper, a player who doesn't play often. What makes it even worse, is from the games he has played he hasn't looked that good. The icing on the cake is that he's on a 4 year deal. And the cherry on top is he's keeping a Greek lad who on paper looks very promising out of the picture. Am not sure it could have got much worse unless he was our number 1 keeper. Why do we persist with buying Boro third choice keepers? It never ends well. Douglas - 3 Whenever there is even some debate as to whether Bell is better than you, then you know that a player has seriously underperformed. No pace, lots of defensive errors, and his main asset of whipping in crosses is as useful as a condom machine in the Vatican given we only play players who are comfortably under 6 foot as a number 9. What a waste of a wage, and a liability. Also seemed injured a lot, which is negative points as well. Only redeeming feature is that he was on loan. Ayala - 2 Because if you have Williams and Lenihen as two of your other centre backs you really can't afford to have someone injury prone. The most notable thing about him is he's been injured more than the aforementioned centre backs which is perversely impressive. A three year contract adds to the appalling nature of the signing. And, it may be my memory playing tricks on me, but he looked pretty ordinary on the rare occasions he played. Terrible signing. Braithwaite - 4 Bonus points for being a centre half and staying fit, as neither are a requirement to play centre back for us. As it is, we did Everton a huge favour in playing him. He looked very limited and awkward to me, and whilst we needed centre backs I really don't think he was the answer. His inexperience showed. If we are to gamble, there needs to be a bit of a chance it works in our favour. Harwood Bellis - 8 Aside from a stint in the "I'll play everyone I can there before Nayambe" position he looked fairly solid at centre back. Still part of a defence that leaked too many silly goals, but overall i think he looked ok and did fairly well as cover, especially for what (I think?) is his first loan stint at this level. Trybull - 6 Apparently we're paying peanuts towards his wages which is a big plus in the transfer column. Personally preferred him to Johnson and Evans and thought was an improvement on both of those, but not quite good enough to cut it in the first 11. Useful without being good, he improved on what we ad which is a positive. Sadly that wasn't too difficult and he both managed to achieve this distinction and not really make a huge impact. An inoffensive signing if ever there was one. Elliott - 9 Pace, trickery, class and a heck of a lot of assists. Started doing too well, so TM moved him about until he found a place he was ineffective as a false nine. Well done Tony, that takes a managerial genius to stifle such a talent. I think the lad did everything that was asked of him, and if not the finished article by a long way, what he contributed to the team should have made much more of a difference if the rest of the team had done as well as him. Dolan - 8 Rated so highly not on impact but upon his potential, talent and the fact he was a bargain basement find. Gives us much needed energy and excitement, and although raw has the attributes to become a very promising member of the squad. Given he cost peanuts, that's a very good piece of business. So there we have it. Didn't rate the Greek lad as he hasn't played. Nine players with an average of 5.8 which is far from stellar. What makes it more frustrating is that average aside the signings either seem to be boom or bust - very good like Elliott or Kaminsiki, or dire like Douglas or Ayala. What's even more worrying is that very few of the good signings are permanent ones, leaving us very little to build on in the next window. These are my thoughts, but do others agree?

Not going to happen. As in there is no way it's going to be 24 million as a transfer fee. Go to a Premier League club , quite possibly, but not for that type of fee. Firstly I'm not too sure he's worth that. It's been a good 12-18 months for him but it's really only in that time he has shone. Given his weaknesses, his wastefulness and struggles with one on one I can't see him being worth above the £20 million mark. More significantly he's in the last year of his contract which easily knocks a third off his value minimum. Admittedly fag packed maths but you look at all last year of the contract sales and it is significantly less than their one value, so assuming a third is knocked off is not an unreasonable assumption. So let's assume that he is worth 24 million (though am not convinced) being in his last year that would garner a fee of around £16 million. Heck to get £24 million in his last year of his contract he would have to be worth well north of £30 million which he clearly isn't. Even if we generously allow for depreciation of a quarter for final year of contract we are still looking at him being worth over £30 million to get a £24 million fee. And that's a heck of a stretch even with blue and white tinted glasses on. So £24 million really isnt going to happen. In fact I'm pretty sure the fee will be under the £20 million mark.

Think this is a great point. There is a lot of players who aren't playing to their full potential. Very few players seem to live up to their promise. Outside of Dack and Armstrong which players have really progressed?

A meaningful game and normal service resumed as we fail to win. Of course Rotherham must be pretty shattered after so many games in such a short space of time, so a point reflects better on them rather than us. Not much interest in how the season peters out. We always seem to have a bit of a lift once there's no pressure (just as we always do badly when there is pressure.) In light of this there's little to get excited about for next season. Mind you most of the team won't be here, or shouldn't be, so it's difficult to maintain interest.

Mate that's not a birthday present, that's a birthday, Christmas, Easter, Hannukah and sod it I'll treat myself present all rolled into one.

I have two memories of Grella playing. One Vs Boro home where he actually looked rather good. Can remember my Dad saying he's pretty good if he can stay fit. Sadly he never did. The other was Hull away where he injured himself taking a shot. That summed up his time with us completely.