In this thread though? I think what you're perceiving as "reactionary tosh" is pent up frustration from a poor second half of last season combined with an underwhelming, to say the least, transfer window. The third in a row under Mowbray. Concerns were brewing throughout July that we didn't appear to have a plan and TM was losing control of the situation, and despite many stating defenders would arrive, other than Tosin they haven't. Then the first game of the season rolls around and we have Bennett at right back, Mulgrew at centre back, Bell at left back, and Rothwell on the bench. Is it any wonder that frustration reached tipping point? It's far too simplistic to consider this a reaction to one game. For the vast majorty of people I think it goes way beyond that.

Is there anyone calling his time here into question based on this result alone though? I haven't seen that. Three months break doesn't erase the concerns from last season, especially when it's blatantly obvious none of those concerns have been addressed during that time.

To be honest it's all feeling a bit Souness at the moment. A manager who got us promoted when we were at a low point in our history, but ultimately began dragging us back down due to baffling team selections, playing favourites and poor transfers. Mowbray is obviously a very different person to Souness but has fallen into that same rut. There were a lot less people defending Souey at the time though!

We revelled in it back in the day. The bully boys. You might not like how we play, but good luck taking any points from us, especially at Ewood. This lot wouldn't say boo to a goose. A side very much built in the image of the manager. Nice lads, but other than possibly Johnson not a leader amongst them.

Two reasons I think. Firstly he's the only proper "target man" striker we've had during his time here, with the possible exception of Gallagher who did start up top today. We played the most long balls in the division last season I believe, might have been joint with Ipswich, but it makes sense to have a target man up there. In fact it's the only way we could make that system work. Secondly I think the link-up between Dack and Graham has been so solid that you can't really seperate them. He tried today and the result was Dack being totally ineffectual. Dack is such an important player for our team that having somebody up top he can link with is, again, crucial to the way we play. Why he's persisted in bringing strikers to play on the wing I cannot fathom. I think Downing might be the first proper wide man, other than Chapman, that he's brought in to actually play wide. Chapman however is eternally unfit, so, we end up with strikers on the wing again. It's just poor recruitment. I really don't understand what he's trying to do. Brereton will surely end up out on the wing this season again, if and when he plays, as he's got Gallagher, Graham and possibly Dack to get past before he'd be in a position to play as a striker. I think Bennett has been unfairly targeted at times, but not today. He was fucking dreadful. Should just keep his head down and count himself lucky he's one of the manager's favourites, because at most clubs today's performance would see him dropped for a long time.

Striker and Winger are interchangable terms from Mowbray's perspective to be fair. Other than Graham I think literally every striker we've had has played on the wing at some point, usually primarily. Antonsson, Samuel, Brereton, Gallagher, Armstrong... it's seriously bizarre.

An interesting read six months later. "Targeting 25-28 year old men"... Johnson - 32 Downing - 35 Gallagher - 23 Tosin - 21 Walton - 23 Nope. I just wish he'd stick to his word. I'd really like for a supporter to do a podcast interview or something with him, discuss these things he's said and ask what has changed. He may still come out with nonsense but right now it just feels like he's continually lying about doing things, then failing to deliver and saying it's okay.

It's not the same as losing to Southend. We were confident that we had a squad capable of competing in that division, so losing to them on the opening day was disappointing for a completely different reason. Today's disappointment is down to our terrible defence not being rectified for the entire summer, despite the manager promising to do so at the end of last season, and it costing us three points today. There is justifiably a very real fear that this will continue for the rest of the campaign if something isn't done in the next few days.

Can't imagine we're after another striker. It would make zero sense. Our midfield and attacking options now are fine. It's defence that desperately, desperately needs upgrading. I can't see us bringing in personnel in any other positions, it would be so grossly negligent that you would have to start questioning what in the world is going on.

Also beat Fulham and judging by the highlights could have put four or five past them. 1-0, clean sheet, something we rarely see. We can't seriously suggest we can't compete with Barnsley's scouting network and profile? It's all excuses. This transfer window has been a failure so far and we don't have long to rectify it.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear, I meant that he would admit his comments at the end of last season about defenders coming were a mistake. I think if he could go back in time he would almost certainly stop himself from saying that.

If at the end of last season Mowbray would have come out and said "defensively we're alright, we're going to be starting the first game of next season with the same defenders", I think the calls for him to leave would have been numerous - because it would be an utterly ridiculous statement to make. This is pretty much where we are now. So I don't see this topic as reactionary, more a response to the fact we were essentially lied to last season by the manager and he's now backtracked on everything he said and we're still leaking goals and losing games because of it. Generally speaking I like Mowbray, but he has made a critical error of judgement and only has a few days to rectify it. His inability or outright refusal to act on fixing our defence has already cost us three points today. It'll likely cost us more at Fulham. IMO supporters have every right to be angry over this. There's no excusing it. He told us in no uncertain terms last season that "defenders are coming" - he lied. We've got one, and he's a 21 year old loanee who has been brought in so late he may not even feature until six points have already been potentially flushed down the toilet. In fairness if this was put to Mowbray privately I think he would hold his hands up and admit he's made a mistake. Doesn't change anything though.

I can't see us getting in another first choice keeper, to be honest. At best we might get another centre back, but I think that's likely to be it and I'm not even sure we'll get that. Bennett seems to be able to do no wrong, even when he's blatently making mistakes, and Mowbray will see Bell/Williams/Downing as acceptable left back options - although I consider none of them as adequete long-term players for that position. I don't think he sees left or right back as a priority, which is a shame as they are critical weak points that I'm sure will be exploited time and time again as the season unfolds.

Agreed, unless we have 100% possession our defence is always going to be vulnerable. Lesser teams will counter attack us, whilst better teams will simply pulverise us. We won't lose all of those games, but we'll get a lot less points because we simply don't have the quality at the back to keep the ball out of our net. We can't progress without the back line being addressed, it will undo any of the good work our forwards manage.

Travis out, Evans in. Gallagher out, Graham in. Rothwell banished to the u23's, Smallwood replaces him on the bench.

Does that make us the better team, though, or them? Sounds like we were set up completely ineffectively and weren't able to create anything useful, whilst they had a counter-attacking system which targeted our poor defence and worked. We had more possession for sure, but it doesn't sound like we did much with it, whereas Charlton made the most of what they had.

Tbf I wouldn't say it's all of a sudden, we went through two periods last season where we looked like a relegation side. February to April in particular we lost nine out of eleven games. Fortunately those down periods were countered by periods where we got results that made us look like playoff contenders, and it ultimately balanced out to leave us relatively safe. Last season we were able to get ourselves out of those nosedives - the problem comes when yanking back on the stick stops working. Eventually it will. Lurching between very good and very bad form is not the sign of a team ready to make a serious push for promotion. Quite the opposite.

I haven't seen the game so I obviously take note of those that went, but I struggle to see how we looked like we were going to win the game when we only had two efforts on target. Charlton had five.

Mowbray's comments since around February strike me as those of a manager at the end of the road, who knows there are problems he can't fix but tries to bluff his way through it even though deep down he knows he isn't able to solve what's wrong but desperately hopes something will click. The contradictions regarding defence from the end of last season to this season are very concerning. He said all the right things at the fans' meeting and agreed with most of the criticism, yet he hasn't acted on those words at all. Actions speak louder than words and we need to see some action from TM as soon as possible, or there is no reason to keep faith in him as he is clearly lost.

They didn't have Mulgrew, Bennett and Bell in defence. It's not the result in isolation, it's a build up of issues that has been going on since last season. Had a quick look on a Charlton forum, they genuinely can't believe they won. Treating it like they've just beaten Man City. That's how low their expectations were.

We knew this last season though. It was obvious to everyone, even Mowbray essentially said as much in public. The fact he is either unable or unwilling to address this problem brings into question has capability as manager of the club imo. Not a call for him to be sacked but if we continue this campaign with those two at the heart of defence then something is very wrong.

“I thought there was some good stuff, domination of the ball, but the frustration was the quality of the ball in to the box, the final pass, the clinical side of the game to score and create chances." A shame we didn't have a player available who has shown himself to have the ability to score and create chances. Somebody like a Joe Roth... oh, wait.

Those quotes really are damning. Somebody in the press needs to play this to him and ask what's changed? Judging by today's match absolutely nothing. Of course they won't. It'll be "hard luck Tony, played well today, just couldn't quite get going", "yeah we played well but Travis wasn't good enough and Rothwell was terrible when he came on, at fault for the second goal was the lad, destroyed our momentum. Brilliant performance from Benno though, if we had eleven of him on the pitch we'd be right up there lads, I'm telling you".

I think both Gallagher and Brereton would work well in the right team... but it isn't ours. They're never going to come close to their potential playing under Mowbray. They'll either be shunted out wide as ineffective wingers or asked to be Danny Graham clones, and I'm afraid neither of them are that. We'll need a new manager and a totally new way of playing to get the best out of either of them - and considering the outlay we really do need to get the best out of them.

I imagine Downing will get the benefit of the doubt with it being his first game for the club. Fair enough I suppose. Bennett and Mulgrew though... what do they have to do to get benched? A Shane Duffy? It was so, so obvious last season that neither of them were up to the required standard and yet here they are, starting another season as if nothing is wrong. "Defensively we're alright"... no, Tony, you were right the first time way back in April. We aren't alright.