If that's accurate then I'd love someone to explain why our annual losses are well over double those of Millwall/PNE.

Well we know that we can manage a lot more than we have done recently. Crikey I mean even under GB, with mid table Championship results we were shifting almost 50% more than we managed this season after half season ticket sales and a top 2 position. Kind of sums up how far things have fallen under Waggott's pricing and stewardship. I won't forget that or re-write history to pretend 8000 is the limit of our abilities.

I've put most of the blame on Mowbray in my post. But the owners could have provided him with a bigger budget, or could have made a change a few weeks ago, and did neither. And IMO the reason Rothwell is still here is because they don't communicate with Mowbray and co. not because they insisted he was staying.

Wishful thinking IMO. I think he's in full on communicate via the press to India mode given he's heard nothing from them for so long. Not an ounce of him admitting any responsibility for results its just all about the players and an inference that whilst they are great lads that it is they who have fallen short through inexperience or naivety. I don't accept that narrative - the ones who have fallen short are the manager and owners for failing to build on things in January and seize the opportunity we had. Comical stuff like the points dropped v Sheff U, Bristol City and Reading had all the hallmarks of Mowbray's management.

Last 3 games - laughable team selection v Derby, arguably the most ridiculous ever witnessed, worst performance in a long time and deservedly losing at half time to crisis club Derby. Players take control at half time, turn the game around and win for the first time in ages. Manager spends the second half and post match interview behaving like a petulant child, presumably because someone decided to deliver some home truths rather than the St Tony knows best approach he usually gets from his colleagues and the media. Next game go to Reading, weary performance and get beat against a side in dire form and fighting to survive. Fail to score again. Next game Coventry and once again select a team and system that is all over the place, very lucky to reach half time only 1-0 down, obvious changes work and then in the end still can't see the game out. So that's twice in three games that he's selected a team and system that is not up to the job in hand and has been forced to ring the changes at half time to salvage the game.

Yeah but what about inflation? Expert Waggott claims this is the reason we can't sell season tickets, yet inflation must stop at Whitebirk and Darwen because it hasn't caused any issue for Bolton, Stanley or Dingles. Reap what you sow indeed. This is why we need regime change asap, because year on year the support is being eroded and nothing is being done to stop or reverse it. Much longer and the damage could be irreversible. People pointed at Bolton and Wigan as examples of what would happen to us if Venkys left. Well, Bolton stable, well run and selling close to double season tickets as we will manage at a much lower price. Wigan will be joining us next year with cheaper tickets and an owner that has invested and pays bigger wages than we do.

Come off it. Cooper didnt fail at Swansea. Two seasons in charge, twice got into the play-offs and reached the final last year. Notable that super Graham Potter who gets linked with all the big jobs going didn't achieve that in his time there and only managed 10th. They weren't awash with PL cash either - they've been in cutback mode for years which was the reason he walked away knowing that the budget was being decimated and they wouldn't be able to compete this season. Forest for all their heavy spending were a dysfunctional mess. I agree that with their squad and spending they should be in contention but given where they were when he took over earlier this season it has been a remarkable turnaround, and I think we should be embarrassed to have allowed the lead we had over them to be wiped out. It is interesting that in the January window, when they were little more than play-off hopefuls and we were sat 2nd, that our business involved inexplicably paying fees out for Hedges and Markandy, who between them have contributed naf all (admittedly not entirely their fault) and we could have had both on frees in the summer, whilst Forest immediately went out and got the loan deal for Keinan Davies who has been an outstanding addition and made an immediate impact. I think their contributions so far to his wages will be similar or less than we shelled out or committed to shell out in fees for the above. Valerien Ismael is a good manager as his career has shown and he's now managing Turkish giants Besiktas. Imagine old Tone getting approached or appointed by such a club. WBA are a dysfucntional mess that ruin managers - we only have to see Bruce's struggles since he took over yet will sort them out given time. Robins is outperforming Mowbray. Even if Coventry finish below us they are in a similar position spending a fraction of the cash and losses and he's hauled them from League Two in less time than Mowbray has had here.

Also worth noting that both Forest and Middlesbrough sacked off highly respected proven managers mid-season and haven't looked back since. Also Sheff United although I'm not convinced Heckingbottom knows what he is doing. We could have had Wilder who was unemployed last summer but preferred another round of Mowbray's road to nowhere. Says something about those who campaign for 'stability' which to me looks more like 'stagnation' and not trusting your abilities to make a positive change.

Or the other way of looking at it is that despite a decade of destruction and employment of substandard executives our commercial income still holds up to competitive levels because this is a bigger club than those others mentioned. For example PNE - why on earth should their commercial performance be as good as Rovers? We have a recent history of success and as a result a huge fanbase outside of Blackburn (which the club seems determined to ignore) Preston, Barnsley and others have done nowt. Just imagine what we could do if we nurtured it and took it seriously.

Hmm. Brentford's wage bill last year bigger than Derby, Forest, Wednesday? The only challenge we face is getting better people into key positions at the Club. Until they do that and run the club properly then we will continue to go nowhere. The quality of staff at Ewood in the last 10 years embarrassing. Yet some would argue Mowbray and Waggott are as good as we can hope for and expect. It is them and the owners mental way of operating that is holding us back. It starts at home.

Less than 2 months ago we were sat 2nd, miles ahead of the play-off chasing pack and discussing whether the signings of January were going to be enough to run Bournemouth down for automatic or whether we would have to settle for a play-off spot. At that point we needed to summon up merely mid-table mediocre form for the remaining 20 games of the season and it would have been enough to reach 75 points and with it almost certain play-off qualification. If we'd have done better than that we might have had games to spare to rest players and prepare well like Huddersfield did the other year when they relegated us by playing their reserves. Now here we are wondering if we are going to need 4, 5 or 6 wins from our remaining 6 to have a chance of getting in there. Not that we are capable of getting those wins either way. I hope the manager is sacked for this alone. It is completely unacceptable what has happened here and he needs to pay the penalty, along with his coaching staff. It isn't misfortune, injuries or even money at this stage. Luton are showing that. It is rank bad management from a bottle job. We and these players deserved so much more but when you have zero ambition and no winning mentality in the dugout or upstairs it eventually drags you down.

Blackpool won 1 in 10 away games. Next up Rovers. Bristol City conceded 55 goals in 25 away games and kept 2 clean sheets. Both at Ewood.

Archer scored how many now for PNE since joining on loan in January? Imagine signing someone who goes straight into the team and makes an immediate difference rather than an assortment of people who either don't contribute or are played out of position.

If you haven't done already I'd recommend stopping paying any attention to what other sides are doing. The way in which we've flushed points down the drain in the last 3 months there's only one way this is going to end.

West Brom would be insane to get rid of a proven results driven manager in Bruce and appoint a muddled thinker like Mowbray. They need promotion and quickly and there aren't many with a better record than Bruce. Mowbray not so much.

Seen and heard all this before. There is no way on this earth that Venkys agree to and pay for him to traipse to India in May to have a farewell party with him. We did all this to death during the Kean days. A face to face meeting in India with Desai means the manager comes back emboldened and empowered with a new contract and strengthened position. Managers are weakened the longer they go without India visits. See Gary Bowyer. If Mowbray is leaving he doesn't go to India, and if he does go to India the only way he doesn't stay is if he walks afterwards, which would be surprising. As for other Championship clubs we need to realise that Mowbray will suffer from a similar sort of thing as Dyche up the road. These sort of old school traditional British managers just aren't seen as ambitious or exciting appointments these days. At best he would be seen as a safe pair of hands to keep a club on the straight and narrow for a while as he has here. I can't imagine any club with an eye on promotion would see him as a man to get them there. Perhaps a Stoke or Bristol City at best - someone who can oversee a budget reduction whilst keeping them competitive in the divison and clear of any trouble. I suspect his only route would be to firefight at a club struggling - perhaps a Rotherham or Barnsley if they were trying to survive, or a Hull. Looking elsewhere there are plenty of clubs who won't be interested either - Mboro, Coventry, WBA, Sheff U, Forest

I suppose the question is whether the U18s or ladies team come under 'seniors' If you add up all this seasons first team squad and u23 squad (including loans) and the coaching staff/medical staff and the U18s then you hit 80 odd people. But I would always treat the u18s as the academy so those should form part of the academy 60 staff members. Maybe the ladies squad makes up for the difference.

I think you'll find that comment was very much tongue in cheek hence the second sentence about what would have happened had United come in for him - he would have moved. You had persistently posted prior to that claiming as fact Reed would never move up North. I was responding sarcastically to that claim because in this day and age professional footballers go where the best offer is for them and their career, not restrict themselves and their career because the weather is nicer down south.

You never cease to amaze me with your revisionism. The lengths you will go to absolve the club, owners, manager of ANY culpability and close your mind to the uncomfortable or unpleasant truth is impressive. You came with this excuse when we didn't sign Harrison Reed - rather than hold the club in any way responsible you suggested that there was never any prospect of keeping him here because his girlfriend wanted to be on the South Coast and wouldn't allow him to move to a club 'up north'. Where that came from I don't know but at least it heaps it all on the player and his personal life/preferences rather than anyone at Rovers end for dropping a clanger or missing out on a good signing. Of course a professional footballer that consciously limits his career moves to half a dozen southern clubs willing and able to sign him seems very strange and presumably by the same logic he would reject moves to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City, PSG or Liverpool because none of those are in Southern England. You are now attempting to re-write history on Rothwell and Nyambe by stating as a fact - conspiracy theory? - that the reason they are leaving is because they want to move away from the area. Of course it is absolutely nothing at all to do with Rovers' shambolic operation (seen live with Mowbray's uncertainty on his future), nothing at all to do with owners making cutbacks (evidenced by massive cuts in costs and spending and player sales), nothing at all to do with the mayhem we witnessed this time last year with a manager going through the motions and basically asking for the sack yet owners who won't do anything. As I've said before I'm not sure where you are getting this theory from. Do you know Joe Rothwell and Ryan Nyambe personally? I don't but I do know that Rothwell is a Manchester lad who has spent all his career bar a couple of seasons in the NW of England. I do know he has a young family in the area and has been settled here for 4 years. I also know Ryan Nyambe has been settled here since he was a boy. I suspect all this comes from the Bournemouth Rothwell saga since when you have decided that he wants to move to the other end of the country come what may, or because you expect Nyambe might end up abroad somewhere which you have transformed into the motive rather than the consequence of his departure from Rovers. I also know that contract extensions were off the table this time last year and the solution from Waggott - which I warned of the pitfalls of - was to unilaterally invoke the 12 month extensions in the club's favour. I warned against this when others celebrated their presence because of the message it sends and the meaning behind it. It compels the players to hang around on the same terms for another 12 months whilst basically admitting the club can't, won't or doesn't want to sort improved terms or longer terms. Bridges were burned last year when those options were activated rather than dealing with the bigger issue of long term futures. Same goes for Brereton and Lenihan. I'm not interested in hard luck sob stories about wage structures or FFP. The asset loss to this club of 3 departures on free transfers of key players and reduced fees for Armstrong and Brereton due to weak contract situations has and will cost a lot more than it would to have paid these players more on improved contracts. It is basic stuff that any club owners with sense would realise. This club is somehow continuing to lose £15-20 million a year after 4.5 years of Waggott and his expertise on wages so I'll not be paying much attention to his claims of a strict wage structure.

"Still in the play off picture" "The play offs are still there if we can do x,y,z" We never learn do we? The whole point in the play-off system is that a majority of clubs will be in with a 'chance' of getting in there right up until the final few games of the season, especially IF they suddenly embark on a rich run of form and string some wins together. I'd say anyone down to Swansea in 16th - 11 points behind us but with 2 games in hand - can argue they are still in with a chance. IF they win all their remaining games they might get into the top 6. But they are 16th. The point to what I am saying here is that unless we are marooned in the bottom cluster of clubs we will always have 'a chance' of the play-offs up until the last few games. Anyone who has watched our performances and results particularly precious points squandered through ineptitude against Bristol City, Sheffield United, Reading and Coventry knows that it isn't happening yet presumably you would keep a manager purely on the basis we are still in with a chance of the play-offs. Then next season starts and we will be in with a chance of the play-offs again all the way through to March or April unless we are in the bottom 6 because that's how it is in the Football League. It is why the Play-offs were introduced. No there's a lot more to it than simply glancing at the table, gleaning a 'chance' of the play-offs from position and points and persevering regardless of results and performances until it is mathematically gone. If anyone at ownership or executive level had any interest or idea they would have watched the last 3 months with horror and would have contemplated a managerial change. You have to be proactive and review performances and results not just kick back and let events unfold or continue no problems because we are still higher than we expected to be. 4 wins in 17 this year and 9 goals scored - two of which were in the cup against League One opposition. It is dismal and whether we are 6th or 22nd it can't be allowed to continue. No manager in the world should be protected from criticism following horrendous results by virtue that his team - that he has signed, coached and selected - is making mistakes. It just doesn't work like that.

Mowbray had ample praise for the first half of the season. Unfortunately the results since January haven't just been mediocre - if they had we'd be finishing in the top 6 - but they have been, frankly, a disgrace. Managers don't survive in the real world of football for having a good start to the season or a good run of form 5 months ago. Or a promotion 4 years ago. They are judged on the here and now - and whether we are top of the league or bottom results have been appalling for months. No - I am not accepting the excuse of players missing great chances to score or defending poorly - Mowbray takes responsibility. I don't even accept we have had lots of great chances to score - of course we have missed some chances, every team in the world will have at least some chances that can be pointed at as examples - but no, because managers live or die by results in the real world and if chances are being missed that is either because the players he has signed and picked aren't up to the job or because we aren't efficient enough as a team at taking chances when they come. Yes on occasions where we defend poorly it is Mowbray's responsibility. You don't sack players when results are poor, it is the manager that goes. It is a real shame the way things have gone, but not unexpected. But even I have to admit - as a major doubter of Mowbray - even I am impressed by the magnitude of this collapse. If you want to pin this collapse on some chances being missed where we should have scored, a few injuries or defensive mistakes then more fool you, because the run we are on suggests something much bigger than these temporary issues, it points to a manager who is lost. Head has gone, doesn't know what to do, repeating the same tailspins of years past but longer and more severe. Watching the game yesterday - it was a microcosm of Mowbray's management. Another 45 minute performance. Picked the wrong team and system. Appalling start, lucky to not be buried by half time. A few changes obvious to most people results in a clear and immediate turnaround. Then the final Mowbray trait - unable to see it out and letting the good work slip in the last minute. Happened time and time again.

I feel sorry for the players. They did so well to get us into that position against the odds and should have at the very least have had a play-off attempt at the big time. Their efforts have been totally undermined and wasted by the owners and this manager. Those players deserved better yet through negligence, ineptitude, incompetence and ignorance we've shot ourselves in the foot. This isn't on the players for not trying hard enough, caring or understanding what is needed, or because they are young and inexperienced. This is on the owners for not caring, and the manager for overseeing the biggest collapse in Championship memory. If the manager was able to acknowledge this fact I might have some respect for him. But instead all he's bothered about is ensuring he gets a new contract in the summer and will publicly blame the collective player group for his failings. Unforgivable.

I've just had enough of him. I'm sick to the back teeth of reading even short parts of his media interviews because they just annoy me. I fully agree that he is actively shifting culpability away from himself and onto the players. So if as expected we fall short he can wash his hands of any responsibility for it. I anticipate a large chunk of the blame will go the way of the departing players especially Rothwell and Nyambe - their situations won't have helped. Probably also the Brereton/Chile/Injury scenario. All I can see in his interviews this week is a man positioning himself for a contract extension and go again next season. Talk about planning ahead as though he will be here even though he doesn't know if he will be - he makes it sound like this is a unique virtue. All managers have to approach it that way if they don't know what their future holds, they could be sacked at any time yet have to work on the basis they won't be. I suspect this is gearing up for him telling Venkys how much hard work he has put into planning, how it would be foolish to rip that up in the summer and how a new manager would have too much to do in a short space of time so it just isn't worth making a change. If the owners have any interest or awareness of our collapse in form it will be shrugged off with the 'young team' and how they couldn't cope with the pressure - yet the only one who I see struggling with the pressure is this bottle job of a manager who can't arrest bad runs and who throws wobblers in the dugout when things are going wrong. I would even dispute the 'young team' mantra that he's desperate to circulate at every opportunity. The team that finished at Reading last week had an average age of 25.2 years. Including a huge number of FL appearances. It's just another one that gets spread by the media without question and without recognition that this manager is the one who has recruited all these players. I can't listen to any more of it and another one of his summers in charge fills me with dread. Two myths have been busted this season - the first that Venkys will bankroll a promotion push if they think we have a good chance - the second that Mowbray is on any sort of process or learning curve - he's blown it in spectacular fashion just as he has numerous times before. Forget 2017-2021. He needs to go for January to April alone. Negligence and terrible management including relegation form for 3 months.

Oh I don't doubt Mowbray would have sold him if it was only his decision. From a financial and happy camp point of view it made sense. No doubt Mowbray also supported the sale of Armstrong hoping to get some cash from that to spend on new players and keep himself in the good books with the owners. Again, if the owners are so passionate about how we are doing, so determined to get us where we want, they are prepared to keep a player against his wishes, against their manager's advice and miss their last chance of getting a fee for him that is completely at odds with everything else that has happened here in the last 18 months. Manager hasn't the foggiest what is going on and has admitted having no contact with the owners No investment in the squad when 2nd in the league. Best players allowed to run their contracts down and leave Yet one of them knows so much and is so on the ball as to actively block a Rothwell move? As I say, not buying it no matter what tale Mowbray tries to spin in the Telegraph The top owners are in absentia. No answers, no yes or no to any proposal. Whatever business does get done Falls within the limited parameters afforded to Pasha and Waggott.

Highly unlikely IMO that Venkys have meddled in anything If they have then Mowbray should have offered his resignation. But these are the people who don't come to games, probably don't watch them, don't speak to anyone at the Club, don't have any interest, let the club rot and have no interest in results or performances. If they did Mowbray wouldn't still be here. More crafty maneuvering from Waggott and Mowbray here. They've managed to turn Venkys not answering the phone or doing anything to Venkys stubbornly resisting bids for our best players to aid our promotion push. They just aren't interested. If they were they'd have offered a relative war chest in January to get us over the line. Did next to nothing and now look at us. Look at the Mowbray situation. He hasn't a clue what is happening. Venkys are really going to allow that uncertainty and allow contracts to run down on valuable players yet intervene to refuse a sale against the managers advice and wishes? I simply don't believe it. Amazing anyone does IMO.