JHRover

They just work on a complete whim IMO. Year to year or even window to window the plan shifts and changes depending on who is taking the most interest in India (if anyone). If the manager wants clarity or assurance on funds the only hope he has is to wait for a flight to Pune and go and sit in their mansion for a week waiting to tell them about how great they are and how good it would be to invest some money. After those meetings the manager tends to get a decent chunk of cash to spend. There's no plan or strategy and what we have now is the top owners - Desai and hubby - backing off and delegating to lower rank people. These people might have more idea (might not) but cannot sanction funds close to the level required, which is why we get what we have seen over the last 2 years - inertia, very limited transfer business, reliance on loans which require no capital commitment. I don't believe for one minute that the 'top' owners have appointed Tomasson or Broughton, have met them and probably haven't even spoken to them. The sad thing is that the structure we now have - a head coach who can focus his energies on the team - and a D of F who can handle the recruitment - is probably the most sensible and logical setup we've had in their 12 years of horror. It is sad because no matter how good these two guys might be unless things have changed and the top owners have delegated then it can't succeed.

Won't we be a sixth of the way through the season by the time the transfer window ends? A bit late in the day to be getting worried or upset about things.

Why would you imagine that? We spent next to none of the Rhodes and Armstrong windfalls. Nor Gestede, Cairney or Raya cash. It all went into the "running costs" pot whilst the first team was left to rebuild on a shoestring. Absolutely no reason to think any Brereton cash would end up in the transfer pot and even if it did the timescales would probably prevent us spending it wisely. As for "FFP side of things" within the last 12 months we've: A) Sold Armstrong for a £10 million+ profit Sold the training ground out of Club ownership C) Demolished the squad and wage bill Despite all that still spending nothing, relying on loans and unable to secure key players to new deals. Doubt a Brereton sale will make an ounce of difference on that front. They'll just wheel Waggott out with some fancy terminology for the local press to tell us how it will help in next years figures and how we've a good budget (that will never be spent). Meanwhile the key point is we lose another senior player and his goals and replace with cheaper and inferior. It's operation downscale in full flow just like 2016 all over again.

Given our limited income (at least partly self inflicted) what would be very useful is to be able to sell a couple of players for big money, then use that money to our advantage over rivals. The cash we got for Armstrong immediately wipes out any advantage the likes of Middlesbrough or other non-parachute clubs have over us. But the money disappears. Fortunately we've another asset who will have to be sold for the same again this summer. Perfect. But we know those funds won't see the light of day either. Point being that we can feel sorry for ourselves about income and FFP all day long - the Armstrong, Brereton, Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell situations prove that the Club won't reinvest and won't protect its assets, so what should have been a huge financial advantage over rivals has achieved nothing - not even willing to pay players the going rate so they leave for nothing.

There's nothing that Blackpool, Preston, Wigan, Dingles, Huddersfield, Hull, Birmingham, Rotherham, Coventry, Luton, Watford, Reading, Bristol, Cardiff, Swansea, QPR, Millwall have that we don't or can't have. So that's 75% of the league we should be as strong if not stronger than. Of the rest we have Norwich, Sunderland, Sheff U, Middlesbrough, West Brom and Stoke. Of which Norwich have zero external investment, West Brom relying on parachute money to stem losses and think Sheff U will be in financial trouble soon if they don't go up. Stoke's crowds have plummeted.

Football League clubs voted to introduce FFP. They could vote next week to scrap it. They won't so they need to start looking at themselves if they don't like it.

Predictably the talk is turning away from multi-million CBs and towards the inevitable loans. Never any intention or plan to invest or build anything, its just rely on the academy wherever possible and plug gaps with some cheap heavily subsidised loans. Can't build a side on that. All this talk about copying Brentford or of a multi-year plan is just window dressing.

It's all a game of confuse the masses. Who is responsible? Is it Venkys? Is it Pasha? Is it Waggott? Is it Broughton? Is it Mowbray? Is it Tomasson? Nobody knows and yet again we are on the cusp of a season well off where we should be and nobody takes responsibility. They know what they are doing. Keep shifting the focus and avoids anyone taking the blame.

Precisely. The contrast couldn't be more stark between us and them. We've now reached a point due to budget cuts and neglectful / incompetent recruitment that we are trying to convince ourselves we will be OK because our starting XI looks ok when we've no injuries or suspensions. Of course the astute clubs and managers know this isn't a competition where a good XI wins the day, it is a squad game and you really need cover in all positions. That gets overlooked here presumably because having depth represents too much of a cost. One club wants promotion and will do all it can to get there, the other is just content to make up the numbers whilst the middle men cut budgets and impress their bosses.

Anyone else reckon we might have shifted a few more season tickets had we got some serious transfer business done and showed proper backing to the new manager? I suspect this was never on the agenda. What we are seeing is "the plan" - no spending, no substantial deals, cutbacks. Usually ends one way.

Lets remember that Wilder only joined Middlesbrough in November last year. So the problem of course is that Lenihan should have been sorted well before then, last summer at the latest, and if so no amount of talking from Wilder would have weakened our position.

I think it became clear quite a long time ago that wage increases and as a result contract extensions were 'off the table' for a significant duration, running through the pandemic and it seems efforts and intentions on that only really changed during last season when 'normality' had resumed. Thankfully they managed to sort out the Kaminski and Travis situations in good time but I firmly believe that the Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell situations could all have been avoided had Rovers dealt with them promptly. Instead they were left to reach the last year of their deals and probably treated shoddily (who hasn't been?). Then you get a rival Championship club offering at least as much if not more, making them feel wanted, getting back to them quickly, and showing ambition rather than making excuses every transfer window, and I don't blame them one jot. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of Waggott's mouth and certainly not on the subject of finances and contract extensions. Perhaps the most surprising thing to me is that so many Rovers fans are seemingly happy to accept what he has to say.

Sounds about right. More fool us. 3k a week increase for 4 years is an extra cost to the club of what, about £600k cost if he sees it through? Pats on the back for sticking to the 'wage structure' though. Bet Wilder and Middlesbrough couldn't believe their luck

Takes some doing to have been 2nd in February, top 6 until April and now be sat here in early July debating whether we are going to be stronger than Wigan, a side in League One last season and close to bankruptcy less than 2 years ago and Blackpool similar. I'm old enough to remember the days we were 10 points clear of Forest and battling Bournemouth for a top 2 slot. Well done to all concerned for such a rapid and drastic revision to our expectations. Sabotage couldn't have done it better.

Huddersfield changing manager and appointing a rookie 3 weeks before the start of the season plays right into dingle hands

Believing Waggott is the problem is just what the Venky stooge in the shadows wants. A patsy who takes the blame and ire from the fans whilst the real culprits hide. Don't fall for it. Waggott isn't fit for purpose and will take the wage to protect his bosses, but they are responsible.

I quoted you on Middlesbrough, Bristol City and Stoke. None of them have ever been sanctioned. All lost a lot more than we did.

The only important thing to take home is that none of those clubs, despite losing well over the maximum allowed under the rules, have been sanctioned in any shape or form. Not interested in "something must happen" that sort of talk will caryr on until people forget about it or they get promoted and don't have an issue. We are told that what we have seen at Rovers is something forced on us by the rules, and if we didn't act quickly we would face a terrible fate of sanctions. Doesn't happen elsewhere so why would it here?

Agreed If points were awarded for excuses and hard luck stories we'd be in the PL by now. Patterns have emerged here over the last 4-5 years. Every transfer window follows a similar trajectory and ends with us scurrying around for last minute loans and ending up short of where we wanted to be. If there was real serious intent or investment it would get done. There isn't, they're just stringing us along. Looks like they did the same with the contract rebels too. Always jam tomorrow with this lot, never today.

Middlesbrough lost £30 million last year alone. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/middlesbrough-fc-reveal-30m-losses-23433844 Yet despite that they haven't been sanctioned, haven't had a points deduction or embargo, and are now coming along paying wages to our academy products that allegedly we cannot compete with. If FFP was the issue here they wouldn't be able to do that. Now I know that comparison to other clubs isn't always popular on here, because none of us really know the details of what goes on elsewhere and we need to focus on ourselves. But I think it is very useful to point this out - it proves that those sort of losses we are accustomed to, along with higher ones in the case of Middlesbrough, can be sustained without the need for the slash and burn performance we're witnessing at Rovers. Put simply Venkys don't want to put the money in, and will only be persuaded to do so if the manager goes to India to do it. If that doesn't happen it is "make do with what you have" whilst the middle men cut costs. In comparison Steve Gibson, Peter Coates, Stephen Lansdown want to invest and want to improve their clubs and by an amazing miracle they have continued to do so without FFP issues. Bristol City lost £38 million LAST year alone Stoke City lost £56 million. Incredible figures which demonstrate the futility of rationalising what we have seen at Rovers. This is our owners deciding to cut costs, not 3rd party rules forcing them.

We sold Armstrong for £15 million and still supposedly had a FFP problem. And we will have to sell Brereton for hopefully similar. On the contrary I recall you confidently predicting that Middlesbrough along with other rival clubs would face FFP sanctions due to their spending. That hasn't happened, they've poached our assets and now you are rowing back.

Rumours that Carlos Corberan might be leaving Huddersfield.

I don't think you've really dealt with anything I said. No we don't know what money we have to spend. But given the trajectory of the last 2 years, drastic cutbacks, lack of spending, lack of activity so far and the exodus of key players I think it is probably quite safe to assume at this point there isn't a big budget. You can spend your days talking about potential players who in all probability won't come here but I think that is a waste of time. I also think that Waggott and the Venky goons want us to do that - be distracted by talk of possibilities none of which will materialise. They then get credit in the bank for 'trying' and failing to sign decent players but the end result is we miss out. Irrespective of Middlesbrough's budget the point is the same - if it was so easy, straightforward and sensible to get players as good or better than Lenihan and Nyambe, on less money, then surely Middlesbrough would do just that? Or are you saying that they have such scope under FFP that they are able to spend money unnecessarily? How long until Middlesbrough get their FFP points deduction / embargo? Any year now won't it?

I didn't say they were irreplaceable. But replacing them with as good or better with minimal money is going to be nigh on impossible. As pointed out during the contract saga, if we couldn't pay Lenihan and Nyambe what they wanted how are we going to pay as good if not better? And if it was so easy to do better for less cost then why aren't Middlesbrough doing that and saving themselves a heap of money? We've been had. Hook line and sinker. And my alarm bells are ringing as to the involvement of our former manager in this saga.

As expected lots of excuses, finger pointing, sob stories, FFP, money, we can't compete, we've changed manager etc. etc. None of it matters. All that matters is having a squad good enough. It isn't at the moment. We won't get points for excuses.