JHRover

Its very odd and something simply doesn't add up. In some ways it would make more sense for Nixon's theory to be correct - that there was originally a more limited budget and then suddenly Venkys decided to throw a lot more at it - that would explain the late 'big' bids and ultimately ending up running out of time as the whole thing was suddenly thrown up into the air with a few weeks to go. However Mowbray has said that wasn't the case and that the money was there all the way from his trip to India. If that is indeed the case, and I certainly would like to believe Mowbray over Nixon, then it is baffling as to how with such a competitive sum of money we failed to get any serious deals done other than the Armstrong one (which would have been a straightforward deal to complete in the scheme of things). It just doesn't seem right to me. Something has gone wrong somewhere for so little by way of additions when supposedly the cash was there to do it. Then the talk of short term loans and January window deals seem at odds with what was being said last week when there was talk about loans with permanents agreed being as good as permanent signings, Mowbray now suggesting that having to settle for some loans is not what he wants and is not ideal but is the best we can expect.

My interpretation of Mowbray's comments over the weekend was that the boat has been missed in terms of getting big expensive signings over the line. It seems there was some money there to pay out on relatively large fees but that perhaps the wage budget wasn't sufficient to get them done. He's giving the impression that there might be a short term loan or two to provide cover until January and then IF we're doing ok he HOPES that the funds will still be available to make some decent buys. Of course before then there is a huge amount of football to be played in a tough league and every chance the cash won't be available as the promotion hysteria will have died down. Even if the money is available we'll hear all the usual stories of how January is a difficult or expensive time to make signings and better waiting until the summer window when there's so much time.

I noticed that Bolton had an empty bottom tier yesterday with Bristol City supporters upstairs in one corner. No doubt they were paying a high price for their tickets too. Why we don't do that I find odd. Surely it is much easier to steward/police with away fans upstairs and the club could also charge them more for tickets, another way to raise revenues which would probably bring in more than the 1875 club would.

And I get called negative. Pay the money you get the decent players. Nothing else matters. Try and avoid spending and do things on the cheap you end up with the rubbish.

Yes but those clubs are 3 good examples - Stoke, WBA and Swansea - none are traditionally well supported clubs, particularly not Swansea - all 3 will get decent gates this season because there's some excitement or anticipation around those places. After many years in the Premier League as small clubs fighting relegation most seasons people will be up for a year where they are favourites and expecting to win every week and fans will be expecting entertainment. If they get stuck in this league and end up floating around in mid-table or bottom half their gates will plummet. Middlesbrough have had 2-3 near misses under Karanka, then promotion, then a Premier League season, then another play-off campaign and following that have spent massive amounts again under Pulis and are favourites to go up, no wonder their fans are turning up at 20000+ a week. Swap our last 5 years for theirs and they'd be down at 14,000 I'm sure.

The tent is the control point for the digital advertising boards. The ones in front of the JW stand are temporary ones until we get our own permanent ones which will run behind both goals and the JW stand.

The city clubs are in this league because the smaller clubs are in the Premier League - Bournemouth, Burnley, Watford, Huddersfield, Fulham, Palace - the ones who used to be Championship regulars. Goes to show that crowds don't matter when getting promoted. 15k a week should be the target for us in the 2nd tier. Likes of Middlesbrough were down around 13000 a week when our manager was managing them. Their crowds have shot up because they've been having the good times. A few years of what we've been through since 2014 and they'd be back down there again.

There clearly was some money there. How much I'm sure nobody really knows. Doesn't really matter now though because it seems Mowbray considers this summer to be a missed opportunity to get some serious cash spent on quality players to propel us up the league and is bracing himself for that money not being available in the next window. To be honest I'm quite shocked at that interview, I think Mowbray is being as obvious as he ever will be that he isn't happy with business done and considers a big opportunity has been missed this summer and now we're left looking to paper over the cracks with a few loans (no mention of buying them).

Glad you covered all these points and saved me the job. Basically confirms that contrary to some opinions the window didn't go as hoped/planned. I'm particularly concerned by the final comment - it seems there is no guarantee that whatever money was available will still be in future - Venkys all over - it seems Mowbray knew he needed to get it spent this summer whilst the positivity was there and having failed to do so it might not be there again. Also in mentioning loans he makes no reference to loans with agreements to buy. He refers to short term loans which suggests to me that those who come in on loan will merely be here on that basis and not as permanent down the line.

Medium to long term plan rather than having to go through this again next summer would be nice but unlikely

Hmmmm. I don't want to keep raking over this. It's clear we're at different ends of the spectrum and that's unlikely to change. If we work on the basis that Nixon's version of events is 100% correct then I'm assuming you are taking the positive end of the stick on that and that it makes you feel good about things. Unfortunately for me all it does is lead to more concern and questions about what on earth is happening. Of course we need to assume Nixon knows what he is talking about and isn't merely 'filling in the blanks'. 1) Additional money suddenly comes available 2-3 weeks ago? So what of the 'good budget' Mowbray originally reported following his trip to India? Were Rothwell and Davenport all that budget could stretch to? Mowbray and Waggott spoke of exciting players way before that point so what happened? If this extra money appeared a fortnight ago why did nobody else (other than long term target Armstrong) arrive? 2) Forest go to the trouble to employ an agent, 1 day before the window shuts, to find someone to buy Brereton? A player that costs upwards of £5 million? How many clubs in the Championship have or had that sort of money sat around waiting to spend on a player Forest didn't want on the final day of the window? 3) Mowbray then decides to pursue Brereton presumably just because Forest are keen to get rid and are hawking him around clubs to find a buyer on the final day? No other more long term targets being worked on that would have been easier and cheaper to finalise? Does any of the above - changing budgets, going after players Forest use agents to try and get rid of - suggest there is a coherent, rehearsed strategy from the owners down?

Its so hard to believe because they haven't backed any manager with serious cash since Kean left. There is nothing they have done since 2012 that suggests they are remotely interested in spending the sort of money reported yesterday. My mantra is I'll believe it when i see it. Actions speak louder than words. That's my default setting with everything at Rovers and will be as long as we are owned by people with Venky's track record. Call it negative but I and we have been burned many times before by talk of this and that which hasn't materialized and ended in misery. As I said earlier, the easy way of proving people like me wrong and making me eat my words is to go out and make some impressive signings and match the talk with action. Do that and I'll hold my hands up, admit I was wrong and applaud business done. I'm still waiting to do that.

Downing and Cairney very different. Downing was surplus to requirements at MK whilst Cairney came for game time and to get fit after a long period out whilst Hull were promoted to the Premier League. Neither were loans with an agreement to buy, we chose to make them permanent afterwards. Them and Gestede in a minority as loans that were successful which we managed to make permanent. The majority aren't successful or don't get made permanent.

Yes I do know what the word prefer means. Mowbray PREFERRED his business to be done early and on a permanent basis. He said as much and explained why. So it clearly does matter to him when people sign and whether they are permanents or loans otherwise he wouldn't have said it. If it didn't matter in the slightest then there would have been no point to our manager saying those things. I don't think I'm being critical or sarcastic, just pointing out that the most important person in this process, the manager, has said things that contradict the suggestion that it doesn't matter when we sign people or whether they are loans. End of the day I'll judge him on results as I do every manager, not what he says or does in the transfer window, but I'm not going to convince myself all is wonderful when I don't think it is.

Apart from our manager who has said the opposite. He was clear he preferred business done as early as possible, and even identified the trip to Austria as the stage by which he would prefer big signings done to enable them to integrate into the squad. He was clear on multiple occasions that he preferred mainly permanent deals as he wants to build a squad here over time that will grow and develop. Of course you don't always get what you want due to a variety of reasons but Mowbray was clear on what he preferred and it doesn't seem to have happened. Likewise concerns you raise such as people stinking out the dressing room if they don't fit in surely wouldn't happen under our super new recruitment system.

I haven't said that. I believe Mowbray was interested in those players and that we made late bids for them. Its this talk of £5 million I'm struggling to believe, as it doesn't stack up. No doubt Mowbray likes those players and no doubt we tried to get them, and failed. Whatever bid we made to QPR wasn't enough, so it doesn't matter how much it was.

I'm saying I don't think it exists at the level reported. The reason for that being once again it hasn't been spent. We can come up with all sorts of theories as to why but in the end those clubs with money determined to invest it strengthening their ranks just get on with it and do it. Obviously the best way of proving a moaning, negative conspiracy theorist like me wrong is to actually go out and do it, rather than talk about it.

Whether it exists or not it doesn't help the club until it is spent.

No it isn't. Successfully signing quality players and vastly improving the squad is different. That hasn't happened. We can talk until the cows come home about how much money is available, who we want to buy, what we'd like to see happen, ifs buts and maybes but reality is we've had months to do it and it hasn't happened.

No it doesn't. We can bid those sort of figures in the final day of every transfer window, if it doesn't see players arrive then it changes nothing. If it is too late to get the deal done or the money offered isn't enough then it changes nothing.

3 weeks ago Sharpe was saying we 'might' be able to spend more than the fee on Dack (£750k)? Then he's saying that we're in a position to spend a lot more than that. He'll say what he gets told to say. But they did get £10 million back for him when he was sold.

Of course he did. Once again after the news had broke on twitter. Notice that it wasn't he who 'broke' the news, merely confirmed an interest after word was out. Regardless I'm not doubting there was interest as confirmed, I'm doubting that there was that sort of money for those players. We were likely trying to get them for much less than the figures, great if that works out, but it didn't. So yeah, actually immaterial what money there was/is/wasn't if the deals don't get done.

Notice please that I said 5 and a half years which takes us back to January 2013. What came before that was Kean and Shebby using up all the parachute money which left the cupboard bare unless Venkys dip into their own pockets.

If 'slagging the club off' is criticising the owners then so be it. I've already made it clear that I like Mowbray, trust him and hope he remains our manager for a long time to come. I don't recall ever accusing him of deliberately lying or misleading anyone. If I have or have given that impression I apologise. I don't think I've accused Mowbray of lying, that doesn't mean I have to believe some of the stuff that's been going round in the last few days. I'm not sure which 'conspiracy theories' you are referring to. Doubting that these owners would spend £5 million on a single player just because some random bloke linked to Sky Sports put it on twitter? I deal in facts and the facts are we've spent little over £5 million in close to 6 years, so yes i'm dubious about them spending that on one player and don't believe the hysteria and rumours on twitter. If you're happy with Venkys then great. It will take more than talking of bids to win me round.

Sharpe gets his information from the club. I don't doubt the club have been telling him that funds are there to make big signings. They aren't going to tell him to write that there's very little/no money left are they?