If it all goes as it appears it's heading, there can be no illusions or people convincing themselves otherwise - it has to be full steam ahead in getting these parasites out of our club. The usual dirge about 'they keep us afloat' and 'respect them' will all be moot points as they further ruin our reputation, operate in complete bad faith and continue to worsen our playing squad.

Palace also play youth, vastly increasing the chance of a future sell on clause when Chelsea or someone of that ilk spend the big bucks on him. If we sold to a bigger club now, he would probably end up out on loan - Palace is a decent springboard for a big move in 2 years. Realistically, are Chelsea going to come in and spend £10m more than Palace? Doesn't appear likely. It doesn't appear as if any other club put in a formal offer, either. If they go down though it may end up as an own goal for all involved.

The real problem is upstairs, but I'm growing more and more convinced we would benefit from JDT walking, at least in the short term. The players don't seem to be playing for him, the heads are down, the atmosphere poor. I'm glad he tried to change shape today which at least indicated some sort of care and wish to address the issues, but the same issues persist. We are wide open and it was another very poor result. He will do well somewhere, but overall I'm pretty disenchanted with him. A good league finish last year, but there have been many issues. Late throwaways, the surrender at Turf Moor, inability to react to going behind and this season's absolute kamikaze football. He's been dealt an absolutely crap hand but we look completely bereft of ideas and confidence. This defence was much better last year but we have completely departed from it this year.

We have the club many of our fans deserve. The Stockholm syndrome on show from many is absolutely startling. Posts today on social media range from 'we should be to grateful' to 'they deserve respect'. 'More interested in what happens on the pitch' was another corker. As if the owners have no bearing. It's why 2011-2012 was so unbearable - so many people either don't see or won't see the issues at hand. I genuinely don't know if I'd have the energy again to join protests or actively campaign against the board, as the reactions and attitudes last time were so demoralising. I remember travelling from Cardiff for protests, yet most fans were happy to sit on their hands, bar the occasional outburst (Bolton and Wigan at home spring to mind). I remember Glen (and others) were often threatened and criticised.

As an avid FM player I know our offer doesn't wash! Thank you for confirming

I can't find anything, but what's the deal with the lad from Crewe? I gave up for a week or so but I've heard a couple say we suddenly can't afford him. Can someone give me a brief update? Apologies to sidetrack the thread.

People pointing to individual errors, but to me it's a total lack of organisation. Remember when we had loads of individual errors under Ince? Yes - Big Sam came in and addressed a lot of it overnight. The errors reduced considerably and we were suddenly well organised. It starts with the manager and on the training ground. That being said, doesn't help when you have an absolute turnip in goal.

Whilst Tony had his loyalists, I thought from coming on here, Twitter and at games (largely away) in 21-22 the vast majority of fans believed it was time to go for him, especially as the rot set in. Perhaps it wasn't always the case before. Maybe I was in an echo chamber as I was desperate for him to go. Of course Venkys are the issue, and people have a huge blind spot. Even those who don't will react and respond to events on the pitch and that will receive their ire, probably due to the real problem being thousands of miles away. We couldn't get to them when we had PL exposure, halving the crowds didn't help. I'm genuinely at a loss how we get them to go. Focusing on Swag for me is a good start.

Some of the most vocal support is from Szmodics, who has been imperious this season and gives his all for the badge.

Some great questions. I know interviews are largely irrelevant but his smarmy, sarcastic replies don't paint him in a great light, especially when the answers were often long, tedious dirges that were barely relevant to the question. Not good when the manager is asked 'did you feel there was no point you being here?'

No post has summed it up better. The players seem to think they are gods gift - constant gushing interviews about happy they are and how we are on the rise. I don't have a clue what they are seeing. JDT has clearly given up. We can blame recruitment and obviously it's been crap, but the manager has been an absolute disgrace recently. Sat on his arse all game today. He's clearly given up and should do the right thing and leave. He's torpedoing his own reputation . Yet half our fans seem to think he's the best thing since sliced bread and is entitled to down tools. Nobody said the same about Mowbray last year (and yes he got a few quid more if you ignore the money we blew on Leo, as well as decent fees by their standards for Hyam and Szmodics). I've had enough of the manager, the owners, the players. The club is absolutely rotten from top to bottom. We will go nowhere until Venkys fuck off.

I'm in no way backing the owners or Waggott, they are the problem. But the squad isn't that much weaker than last year. Injuries have been bad, mind. But I don't think it justifies our entire fall off a cliff and 2nd worst defence in the league. He will be as disappointed as anyone, surely. We are suddenly the most predictable team in the league and every team knows how to set up against us. I think it's certainly worth comment and criticism, even if the main problem are thousands of miles away.

We are so predictable. Every team lets us pass around and counters us. Darren Moore said so himself and every team does it to great effect. Teams will continue to do this as we never change or adapt. We do have a squad lacking depth but we didn't lose as many players in summer as people made out. We lost Ayala (barely played), Dack (barely played and unfancied), Morton (derided as useless) and Diaz (big miss at times, fair enough). Kaminski too - but the manager seemed happy with that and didn't play him when fit. Yet we are considerably worse. I was firmly in the Mowbray out camp and whilst I think JDT is much better and his position shouldn't even be considered, it would be interesting to see the reaction if you swapped gaffers in the dugout with the same run of form. And yes, Mowbray had longer and got backed (occasionally) more, but it's striking how people treat criticism of JDT as a sin. He can be criticised when we are poor, like he deserved all the praise when we were good.

He did previously, but on social media (or at least my echo chamber) you can't say a bad word about him without being latched upon. Even something innocuous. I think he's too good a manager not to turn it around, but worried him and the players aren't on the same wavelength currently. But yep, mid table is the best we can hope for. He's been sold a dud and barring some sort of Christmas miracle will be let down again in January. I'm surprised he didn't walk in summer to be honest.

I must admit whilst we are sometimes easy on the eye a lot of what you said is spot on. The issue is if you dare question anything tactically (even as someone who fully backs JDT) people - especially on Twitter - will latch on and defend him as if their life depends on it. My main criticisms lie in the lack of adaptability and the performances in 'big' games. Bullied in every local game, let down in front of decent home or away crowds. A lot of it is our thin, young squad, but there has to be some accountability from the coaching staff too. I think that's what is making me most miserable. Yes, we have no hope with these owners. But we can't even comment on any tactical shortcomings as it isn't JDTs fault. What are we all doing on here talking about the games then? It all feels pointless doesn't it? Coming as close as to packing it in as I have in years, I just don't have the love for it anymore. That being said, I do like JDT and certainly don't think we can attract better. A part of me wishes he would walk and firmly shine a light on those idiots in Pune. It would certainly rip the plaster off anyway as it's going to happen soon enough. But then again nothing will happen. We will appoint some no hoper undoubtedly this time (no chance they get two appointments right consecutively) and the cycle will start all over again.

Mowbray was rightly planned for our poor performances. A not overly dissimilar squad and considerably worse performances and suddenly JDT is a genius and isn't remotely at fault and we are doing well to be 15th. We (me included) didn't have the same generosity when Mowbray, with a squad not much better than today, was doing better than we are currently. No doubt I'll be told the squad was miles better before - but there's no way we should suddenly have the 2nd worst defence in the league behind the truly dire Rotherham. He's better than Mowbray but he isn't the messiah some (me included) have made out. That being said there is no future until Venkys go. I am personally finished. Players, managers, owners - none of them care about us.

Remember in Ince's reign we beat Everton1-0. The goal came from Warnock smashing into one of their players with a cracking tackle, then flew into another one. Got everyone up for it and next thing we scored a late goal. Seen Bellamy mentioned. Someone from Cardiff mentioned they played him in a charity football game quite recently, 5 a side. Apparently he was a nasty, overly competitive bugger even in that. Got kicked from pillar to post for us and always got back up. 2004/2005 was a team full of battlers for us. Loved that time under Hughes - it was very Labore at the start but really Arte et Labore by the end.

It does if it affects their ability to play the full 90 and the style of football we want. Dunny and Rooney both had stamina that defied their 'fuller' frames

Ennis looked overweight to me when I saw him warm up vs Swansea. He had a reputation at Plymouth as a bit of a partygoer as well. I don't want to cast aspersions on him and might be totally wrong but perhaps he's not quite got the commitment and fitness required for a JDT side right now? If we weren't so short he'd probably be playing for the ressies.

It seems their business model is to buy young players and sell on for big value. However, that business model could end up failing if they underperform, go down and their young players don't show enough to warrant a bigger club taking a chance. I remember last year there was talk about financial issues due to the leveraged purchase of the club, but they allayed those concerns by spending a load of money, recruiting and hiring well and getting out of the league. Given they've spent big again, I hope that if they go down then they could end up in a spot of bother, especially if they don't come straight back up. Sheffield United could be another club who struggle to come back up - they've had some well documented financial issues. I hope the Americans at Burnley lose interest as the overly-romanticised 'journey' back (over-exaggerated as some form of miracle) descends into weekly hammerings. Kompany did a decent job last year, although with their spend were expected to go up. I genuinely thought he had something about him, but wouldn't be shocked if he jumps ship to protect his own reputation if things threaten to get too embarrassing. That being said, the standard of the bottom of that league is dire and they could easily put together a run and stay up. It's looking increasingly difficult, though. Wolves and Everton are much improved and it feels like it will be 3 from the promoted sides and Bournemouth. The latter have also spent a bit of money and got a new manager and will expect to stay up. Also fantastic to see the best fans in the land resort to hired drummers, anguished letters and collective head-scratching to explain why their 'passionate, vociferous' supporters are quiet as mice when they're getting pasted every week at home. They were similarly quiet at Ewood Park* until they found their voices at the end. *no, I'm not bitter (maybe a little bit 😆)

I was quite complimentary about Kompany on here not long ago and got some stick. Hopefully that was me giving them the kiss of death, as they look absolutely shite. Naive, easy to play against, soft. Absolutely delighted. Hope they continue to get thumped. Even last year they struggled sometimes when teams had a go (Sheffield United for example), which made our Turf Moor red carpet roll out even more infuriating.

We look so much better now than earlier in the season. We are much more pragmatic and less kamikaze than before - we seem to have a steel about us defensively that we didn't before. Hill has played a major part in this, but so has Tronstad sitting in front of the defence. Previously we had Wharton roaming a bit and Travis bombing in, whereas now we have someone sitting, allowing JRC to play box-to-box (in his own fluid way from right back when in possession). I thought Dolan was absolutely superb.

https://x.com/kieranmaguire/status/1716472141812551695?s=46&t=Z0z9cI_hOf4gAbKDB_gYrw Concerning

Does anyone have a video of the big Leo save? Thanks in advance! Delighted with 3 points. Very important we back it up next week - 4 points will do me but no reason we can't get 6.

I thought they had the best support in all the land?