Just seen the scorecard - almost everybody got in and then got out. Not good enough.

No not really, when I show the locals a photo of the prices on the menu's over here they fall about laughing.

My wife and I went to one of the Tapas bars on Deansgate on Saturday night, La Vina ? the one on the corner just down from Waterstones. Very average tapas, I've had better for free in rural Spain.

Yeah 33 is no age for a slow bowler. I think maybe the sheer amount of time Test players spend away from home is having a bearing. They'll be out there until early Febuary as I understand it, playing for nothing now.

OK , I won't.

I agree with you about Onions, what more did he have to do to get in the squad ? He would have been more of a threat than Rankin and if Broad is out of the next test he would be an ideal replacement. Something has been rotten behind the scenes with England for the last year or so.

I agree with most of that Patrick. I hadn't seen much of Carberry before he was selected but I remember seeing him make 60 odd in one game and he looked like could have been out next ball at any time in the innings. When he was on 30 odd he played and missed about 4 times in one over. I would have taken Compton. Carberry isn't a test player in my opinion. Neither are Root and Bairstow at this moment in time. The team papered over the cracks in the summer helped by winning important tosses and a bit of luck. This time we've had neither.

Another thing that went tits up was the batting from no 7 onwards. Many times In the past the tail have been able to put on 120-160 runs. Prior was good for 50 plus more often than not, Bresnan was the same. Swann and Broad were capable batsmen who could easily make 30 to 40 or 50. Anderson could hold an end up while the better players made runs. Only really the No 11 batsman wasn't capable of regular runs.. This time it just hasn't happened .

I've got to agree with Jim about the team being under prepared. There were murmurings coming out of the training camp before they even arrived in Australia that things were not going well. They already had the template for a successful tour, from what I heard this was all discarded in favour of a different way of going about things. The bottom line is we haven't batted, bowled or fielded to even the average of our ability. Winning a toss or two would have helped our cause but you still have to play to your best form. The sad thing is this should have been a close series. This Australia team can't compare with the Ponting, Gilchrist, McGrath, Warne team that we beat and then got hammered by. How many of this team would get in that team ? Two or three at the most.

Fair enough Tom, give him enough rope and he'll hang himself.

What happened pal ? You forgot your first two sentences ?

You mean Green and Gold Rover ? He's skating on thin ice again. Permanent ban this time ?

We'll see. Just remember who told you first.

It won't be long before we'll be seeing punches thrown. Next thing it'll be players rolling around on the ground trying to kill each other. You start behaving like footballers and you'll have a game with the lack of standards that sadly football has become.

You may win this series but the game of cricket on the whole has been a loser. I fear for players behavior on future tours now the line has been crossed and the standard set.

I couldn't agree more. They're still the Worlds worst winners.

Mm, best venomous, deadly creatures as well. You can keep it for me. I'd rather live in Burnley !

We need a performance from our guys today, when did we last win a session, never mind a day? Winning the toss would be a good start.

Botham was talking @#/?, Gower ? Well I can't argue with any of that. The culture bit ,- " if the cap fits, wear it ". As far as the rest is concerned they're doing their best to prove him right all the time.

You want to read Glenn McGrath in The Guardian. Just a cheerleader for the Australian team. I don't think he's mentioned England so far this series. I'm amazed a quality paper is paying good money for such one sided tripe.

I'm not talking about sledging during the game, I'm talking about rubbishing your opponents after the game.

No I don't think both teams are as bad, if I did I'd be honest enough to say so. You can celebrate a win that has been hard earned, that's natural and for me fair enough. Having said that, again there is a line you don't cross. You don't rubbish or denigrate your opponents. When England won in 2005 it was like Rovers winning the Premiership. We'd been down so long being up there was great. At no point did any of that celebration reflect on the Australian team, we knew how good they were and how close that series had been. If Warne had have caught Petersen on the final day of the final Test it could have so easily gone the other way.If you took the OBE's seriously you're more of a chump than I take you for.

That would be ironic.

I've been a sports player and then fan for 50 years Dave and nothing has changed re Australia. Last real sportsman to lead the Australian cricket team was Ritchie Benaud. Since then it's been a succession of snarling guys. Nobody likes losing , I understand bad losers. Bad winners I can't figure out. You've won that's enough. After the game you sympathise with your opponents, we all know that in most games the line between winning and losing can be a fine one. A dropped catch, a dodgy umpiring decision, most games hinge on little stuff like that. Funny how several other posters have all picked up on the same point.

Could be, there was certainly an intent to injure people more than get them out.