J*B

Based on what I’ve seen, our six-fingered neighbours are doing the classic ‘recently relegated but too good for this league’ approach. They will have some success and look great against some teams, but generally this approach won’t work over the course of a season. They need some experienced heads and battlers ASAP. Ironically there’s a chance that approach would have worked in the Prem with a decent funding commitment. They needed Kompany then and need Dyche now.

He’s so refreshing after Mowbray. This isn’t going to be all sunshine and rainbows, there will be bad times, especially with a young team. I hope we can stick behind him when that does happen. Interesting that his first conversation was with Suhail, even more interesting to hear Suhail now has a job title. Don’t let him get too involved, Gregg.

Now now, if we wanted the thread to be ruined me and RevBlue would start debating. As a side note if you mention ANY reference to politics outside of the WDWY section it comes with a warning. Consider this your red flag, danger ahead…

I absolutely love JDT.

I thought it was clear with the first sentence “story telling” and the ridiculousness of the ending with us selling a player for a loss and Mowbray being reinstated as the manager that it was intended to be a light hearted over dramatisation. That doesn’t however change that fact that when clubs sell/give away players they often (not always) have to pay them a % of their wages (see: ‘leaving fee’, ‘loyalty bonus’, or ‘some of the transfer fee’), which are all the same thing, to agree to the deal. Unless the player submits a transfer request. When selling players we typically to pay this as the club are benefiting from a transfer fee for the player. When giving away players we typically pay this as it works out cheaper than letting them stay.

I agree with the above.

Yes I think he’s still on the same deal as originally - the 390K is based on 7.5K / week… which feels realistic to me? How much do you think Arma is on, who made the same move? I don’t think a good agent would see Southampton as a good move for an international player, that scored 20+ goals last season, with 12 months on his deal. There’s plenty of risks: 1) They’re going down - so he’s going to have a relegation reduction on whatever contract he signs. 2) He is going to struggle to shine in a team due to lose each week. 3) Any interested club is 12 months away from not having to pay a fee. He will have more options in 12 months and would likely earn more because there’s no transfer fee involved.

A 4 year deal: Increases the transfer fee Increases the cost of option 2.

With respect Rev, you’re posts are what you think happens. I’m basing mine on how I’m told transfers happen by players and the earlier mentioned book, which explains all of this. Transfers are the Wild West and if a club is benefiting financially, a good agent will even the playing field. I’m happy for you to think I’m wrong, it’s easier that way.

OK, let’s work with this as well. You're GB. The 17M figure (which doesn’t exist, but let’s say it does) is bid, accepted and Southampton can now negotiate terms with Brereton. I’m Ben’s agent. 48 hours later, I come back and say we have agreed terms with Southampton but will only finalise the deal if Rovers pay him the rest of his contract, 7.5K / week for 52 weeks, 390K. If you don’t accept the deal then we’re happy to wait and see if anyone else hits the 17M this season or, if not, will leave on a free next summer and look at our options. Do you: 1) call my bluff… get stuffed! If you want to leave we aren’t paying you 2) accept, pay the 390K, take the 16.6M and work with JDT to replace Ben. 3) Negotiate, will I accept 50%?

It’s all hypothetical, but I don’t think it’s an unlikely scenario at all. Ben has 12 months on his deal, in 1 years time the world is his oyster. Again, hypothetical - you’re Ben and Southampton have a bid accepted by Rovers. They’re trebling you’re wages, you’re on 30K a week on a 4 year deal. Do you accept? Because I don’t!

Probably, in reality, yes. I’m just using random numbers for the sake of it at this point to show how it works.

I’ll simplify and make it easier… If Ben can leave Rovers generating 18M quid, despite his bumper new deal at his new club, Ben’s agent wants a ‘loyalty payment’ (otherwise known as some of his wages) from Rovers before they agree to the deal. That’s so little of a surprise to Rovers that when they approach Ben’s agent, they’ll put a figure (which will be negotiated) into the settlement which the agent won’t even need to ask for. Ben’s new contract at his new club has absolutely nothing to do with Rovers. It’s irrelevant. His transfer is worth 18M quid to Rovers, that is what’s relevant. Now of course Ben might want to join Sevilla so much, he tells his agent to get the deal done even if he takes a hit on his ‘loyalty payment’. Which isn’t unheard of, but a good agent will try and get it him anyway.

You’re not reading my posts - 20M transfer fee 2M for Forest, 10% of the transfer fee 6M to replace him Rovers set to gain 12M. The ‘loyalty bonus’ you’re describing are his wages. He is set to earn X if he stays to the end of his deal, so you make a concession and pay him Y to leave now with everybody’s blessing.

That’s exactly my point, they can’t just say “Ben here’s 2M in cash, disappear.” but what they can do is pay them a settlement on their wages… like I started by saying!

It’s the same thing it’s just worded slightly differently. Rovers have a contractual obligation to pay their players the weekly wage agreed for the duration of their contracts. Players hold all the cards, if they don’t want to leave (for whatever reason - don’t like the move, don’t want to go abroad, think they can get a better deal with a different club, want to go on a free) then Rovers need to find a way to encourage that deal to go through. They can’t just pay a boat load of money to someone for no reason, so they pay off their contract… which is exactly the same as someone moving for less money i.e. Ben, you’re doubling your wages to move to Sevilla. On top of that, Rovers will pay you a ‘loyalty bonus’ of 5K / week for the duration of your contract, which is half the 10K a week you’ll earn if you stay. That’s 260K from the transfer fee to accept the Seville deal.

Great, so let’s carry it on. He scores 20 goals and Rovers finish 9th. He leaves in summer on a free and joins Leeds on 50K a week. Ben will earn more money over the length of his contract, despite rejecting 30K a week in Seville. Leeds get a striker on a free transfer. Rovers have to now sign a replacement but don’t have the money to play with that they would have if he had joined Sevilla.

Example… and again, this is all a HYPOTHETICAL scenario which nobody can accurately portray because we’re fans on a forum not involved in any of this: Rovers get a 20M bid for Brereton from Seville. They want to keep Brereton, but he isn’t signing a new deal. Brereton isn’t in a rush to go to Seville, he’s playing well for Rovers, has a new born on the way, his missus doesn’t like the sound of Spain and he only has 12 months on his deal. JDT and GB decide to replace BBD they will need to spend 6M and have the players lined up. Forest will get their 10%, so Rovers stand to replace Brereton and gain 12M quid if the transfer goes through. If Ben holds firm and says “I’m not in a rush to go to Seville, they’re only offering me 30K a week, I’ll see what’s available next year when my deal runs out, I think I can do better.” How much of that 12M quid are you willing to give back to Ben for him to leave? 2M? 4M? 6M?

This is nonsense. I’m telling you this happens in every transfer because I’ve seen it with my own eyes in minor transfers. I have seen someone be paid over 200K to leave a football club on a transfer and sign for a UK team. He was entitled to more because of his wages and contract duration, but wanted to come home.

OK, next time you’re going on holiday buy the book “Done Deal” by Daniel Geey and read it on the beach. You’re right, it’s in the most part not the whole rest of their contract. As I said in the original post, it’s storytelling. But as a basic point, if BBD is on a 40K, 4 year deal here then moves to let’s say Seville on a 50K, 4 year deal, he will be entitled to a huge payment (call it a loyalty bonus, call it wages, call it whatever you want) to leave. If we’re being very technical I would suspect a buyout in a contract like Gav originally suggested would have a caveat saying something like “if the player choses to leave when the buyout fee is activated then he waives the right to his loyalty bonus”. They do move for less money elsewhere if a negotiation happens, but if there’s no negotiation eg a club refuse to accept an offer because it would cost them money they hold on and hope for the China/MLS move. See Bale, Ramsey, Oscar.

Because that’s what he’s owed? That happens on almost every transfer. As I said, it’s storytelling, you would in reality try and reach a settlement. But he would get a lot of dough if he was on 40K a week. See United trying to sign De Jong. You only don’t pay if a transfer request is handed in which waives the right to a fee i.e. the player wants to go. Trust me, I have footballers in the family that like transferring often because of this. They also all get between 4K and 8K regardless from the PFA for every transfer to help with storage and moving fees, which is great if you move to a local club. See above. I don’t think we have any choice but to sell him now, which is why every time JDT mentions him he’s drumming up interest.

Brilliant. Here’s what happens next, alongside some story telling… He signs a new 4-year contract on 40K a week with a 17M release fee. His contract is now worth £8,320,00. He scores 10 goals by 20th Jan. Leeds are in the bottom three, 5 points from safety and Bamford gets injured. They immediately offer us the 17M and Ben goes. We pay off his contract that we owe him and are left with 7.5M, of which Forest take their 10%. We now have 6.75M and Ben stands us at a loss in FFP, so we can’t sign a replacement. Rovers pick up 4 points from 27 relying on Markanday to replace Ben. Furious, JDT walks. We hire Mowbray to steady the ship.

Across all competitions, totally speculatively…. Hedges - 5 Gallagher - 10 Dolan - 3 Vale - 2

He’s scored 1 of the 4 goals we’ve scored so far this season?

He’s still blocked got me on Twitter for saying that was a poor judgement of character!