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Herbie6590

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Posts posted by Herbie6590

    v Blackpool (h) - 9/4/22

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    It’s rapidly reaching the point where nothing but consecutive victories will suffice if the play-off dream is to sustain…

    Blackpool up next in one of those old-fashioned Lancashire derbies the used to feature on Granada…like this one in 1978

    https://pyroonthepitch.com/2018/02/28/people-on-the-pitch-5-blackpool-v-blackburn-rovers-football-league-division-two-04-02-1978/

    A reversal of that scoreline would do nicely…

    Blackburn Rovers football club accounts

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

    82 seems a high figure for the number of senior football players and management. 20-odd players, sure, and what, maybe 10 or so footballing management team (gaffer, assistant and coaches). I guess this might include our meagre board, commercial directors etc, although I don't know whether they fall under 'Administration'. Seems to be almost double the figure I'd expect, who am I not thinking of?

    Where would kiosk staff come under? Stewards? I'd have thought maybe the last category, but it seems a bit small to include them as well as groundskeepers and maintenance staff etc. Perhaps they don't count as they're only employed on matchdays?

    The staff will be all those on the BRFC payroll. So if any service is outsourced (e.g. catering to Sodexo) they won’t be included.

    Re-playing staff - we have two full squads beside the seniors…8B8F8F0F-8818-4865-B140-635F9DFE6229.png

     

    So that will multiply the numbers of support staff I guess - coaching, medical, scouting, admin, welfare, educational….🤷‍♂️

     

     

    Blackburn Rovers football club accounts

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

    1st team squad wage bill as opposed to overall one.

    I'm sure it was on here recently it was around 10 mill. When we were in league 1 didn't Mowbray himself say it was around 5 million they'd allowed for that season ?

    Well the directors are paid c.£0.5m so I think it’s safe to say the 1st team wage bill accounts for more than £10m…or the folks in the ticket office are on £10k per week…😉

    CEE4D438-376C-49BA-BD0F-551CF88A6E99.jpeg

    Blackburn Rovers football club accounts

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    1 hour ago, tomphil said:

    If the football wage bill is around 10 million as was mentioned on here recently but the losses are usually around double that something still doesn't add up.

    I know there are other costs but we aren't buying players for installments of millions either so where is the rest going or a chunk of it at least.

    Just who is on that wage bill and how much are some of this lot really on.


    The wage bill isn’t £10m…6518E2BB-7905-4220-8C95-895E4D7806CA.jpeg

    • Like 1

    Blackburn Rovers football club accounts

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    34 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

    We will never see any cash Herbie.

    It will be netted off against any profits.

    Two fat cheques called Arma and Dack.

    Meanwhile we now have to lease back that which was once ours (and for how long?).

    May seem fine whilst Venkys own all but how about after a club sale or administratiion. One of the two is inevitable at some point.

    Well BRFC has to see *some* cash....from somewhere...cash comes from 3 sources; shares, loans or trading.

    BRFC needs cash from somewhere to pay the bills. Trading doesn't generate enough. Currently, Venky's make up the shortfall in working capital. How they do it is accounting detail (loans, share issue...etc). When they stop providing the cash that plugs the gap, the lights go out.

    Leasing is an additional revenue burden on the club, far from ideal.

    What happens after a sale ? Well, that depends - a bit like when you buy & house & negotiate on the fixtures & fittings. "How much rent for us to continue to use the STC then ?"

    What happens after an administration ? Assuming only BRFC is placed in admin, the STC would not be included. If someone buys BRFC from the admin, the purchaser would have to separately negotiate the rent on the STC if they wanted continued use, far from ideal.

     

     

    • Like 1

    Mowbray & Waggot out? YAA or NAA

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    I’ve closed the poll because it’s a tad disingenuous given that the question was posed in November 2021 so “NOW” is something of a moving feast…

    If someone really feels so inclined, by all means start a new thread/poll but I ask you put a date on it “Manager change at the end of the season, month, week, day..” or whatever 👍🏻
     

     

     

    Blackburn Rovers football club accounts

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

    They add: ‘In June 2021 the company sold the Senior training ground and related property for £17.3m to Venkateshwara London Limited, a subsidiary of the ultimate parent company, Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt. Lrd. The proceeds are due for settlement by June 2023 and carry interest at four per cent above the State Bank of India base rate and interest arising on the loan in the periods was £13,603.

    “The company has entered into a lease to continue to use the Senior training ground and rent of £6,827 arose for the periods to June 30 2021.”

    Am I understanding this correctly? That sounds to me like we have to pay back the 17.3 million by June 2023 (impossible with our financial situation, and means nothing was achieved for us other than kicking the can down the road a bit), AND that there is interest on it at State Bank of India base rate PLUS another 4 percent, and that we are also paying rent (lease) in the meantime?!? Because that sounds a whole lot like this exercise will shaft us and give Venkys a tidy profit.

    That said, the figures for interest and rent don't seem to add up (the rent, maybe, as it's hardly sky high so it could be a token gesture to make it pass FFP scrutiny). Just 4% (ignoring the SBOI interest on top) comes to £692,000 a year. I'm assuming from the wording of it in the bit after, that 'the interest arising on the loan in the periods was £13,603' means the loan for the first month since the sale, which I extrapolate to around 163k per year. That's a serious discrepancy even before we add the SBOI base rate (which appears to be a whopping 7.2% for a 2 year loan, though my quick google result may be wrong). Even if the rent was considered part of the figure it's a huge void.

    Perhaps 'the proceeds are due for settlement by June 2023' means that's when all of the funds will arrive with us from Venkys? The rent and interest figures concern me though. Adding the 7.2% base rate if that's the right figure means another 1.245 million, for a total of about 1.408 million a year in interest, and another £81,924 in rent per year. Meaning it would cost us just under 3 million in the two years, and then we need to find another 17.3 million from the back of the sofa by June 2023 to get our ground back?

    I'm not a financial expert, so I'm hoping someone will tell me what I'm misunderstanding here. Because if I'm getting it right, that's concerning business IMO. Maybe it means Venkys will pay that interest on the money they've borrowed to give us these funds for the ground, and maybe the June 2023 remark is about when they get their funds to us, or when they have to repay the lender.

    (Apologies if I did any of the sums wrong, I'm pretty tired)

    A lot to unpack here…in the nicest possible way, I think you are worrying unnecessarily about a lot of this. It’s window-dressing in the main to address FFP.
    Not all the pertinent info is available at Companies House yet (e.g. Venkateshwara London Ltd is a new company, almost certainly a special purpose vehicle set up specifically to conduct this transaction - so no accounts yet filed).

    1. My take is that the sale is agreed and contracts for the sale exchanged at some point in June 2021, with all monies owed to the vendor (BRFC) to be settled by 30/6/23. In other words, BRFC can account for the profit straight away to help with FFP but the cash will follow in due course.

    2DA1EE7D-618B-4A99-A799-E78A602F9344.jpeg
     

    2. Venkateshwara is a Newco & the share capital of the business isn’t currently sufficient to produce £17.3m to enable them to pay the cash over; so instead they have arranged to borrow the £17.3m at 4% over base…akin to borrowing money to buy a house, exchanging contracts with completion (Funds transfer) to follow. The party buying the property borrows the funds, the seller gets the sale proceeds at completion.

    3. I am deducing therefore that the loan is in the books of Venkateshwara & the interest liability is theirs to service - NOT BRFC.

    4. As BRFC is now a tenant at the STC, it pays rent. The £6,827 rent must therefore be for the period in June 2021 following sale, up to the company year end (30/6/21) - so this means it’s for 1,2,3 or 4 weeks - I can’t seem to see the precise sale date. Let’s say it covers 2 weeks, so £3k per week or £150k per annum that BRFC now has to find from cash flow. This is an additional liability on the club, but it’s coffers will get £17.3m in to ease the pain at completion.

    5. Venky’s are at both sides of this transaction so accusing them of making a tidy profit simply doesn’t add up. If I own my house in a company name (that I own) & sell it to another company that I own; I would be at both sides of the transaction so it all nets out in my bank account ultimately.

    Hope that helps…

    • Like 8

    BRFCS TV - Nostalgia Thread

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    3 hours ago, windymiller7 said:

    Superb watch that. I remember being at that game as a 14 year old. I usually used to stand at the front of the BBE back then (before graduating to moving further back) and used to jump up on the railings just about where Garns celebrates his hat-trick. I'm sure I'd be one of those lads up on the fencing but can't make it out. Don't suppose you've got a copy in UHD anywhere? 😄

    🤷‍♂️

    • Like 1

    Best books and videos on Blackburn Rovers

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Upside Down said:

    Great to see there is so much written about the club and that it comes from many different eras.

     

    Can we now definitively pin down what shirts we played in at the very beginning of the club's history? It's something that's really been bugging me for a while as I've read conflicting things. Some say it was white shirts with the Maltese cross and others say it was always blue and white halves.

    The best resource around for this kind of thing…

     

    http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Blackburn_Rovers/Blackburn_Rovers.htm

    Mowbray, the summer and beyond

    in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard

    Posted

    3 hours ago, lraC said:

    Its still hard to believe in my mind that it was Venkys money that bought the club in the first place and the great mystery as to why theY keep on funding us, could have answers buried deep back to how the original purchase was really funded.

    Playing this thought experiment through to its logical conclusion…why would “organisation X” provide money to enable  “organisation Y” to buy an asset over which “organisation X” had no explicit, direct, legal control ? 

    That is a tad risky on the part of “organisation X” isn’t it ? 
     

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