Yes the players who have signed new deals will have been on the cheaper end of wages but at least it is showing some sort of forward planning by getting our more rated youngsters tied down to long term deals. In fairness Harvey Elliot and Harwood Bellis might have been cheap for us but we would have had to fight off other clubs to get them, certainly for Elliot. I don't think anyone is "happy" that we are so reliant on the loan market but some people are accepting of it and try to make the best of the situation. Constantly moaning on a message board about every single thing the club does will change absolutely nothing.

Agreed but don't think he should be playing at full back especially with the way Mowbray likes our full backs playing so far forward,he lacks the pace to get back.

What's happening with that imminent loan arrival from Liverpool?

Hope he performs better and gives more than he did in his time here

Who they signing mate?

Ffp is just something made up according to him

The clubs with 10 thousand crowds ain't carrying our Wage bill nor are they spending 5 million and 7 million on transfer fees.Try again. I keep going on about Ayala because of what you said.You criticised the club for not paying what it took to get him here.Then we do sign him you make out it cost the club hardly any money. We have still spent more In transfer fees if not then it's breaking even.We made about 10 on Armstrong and 5 on Raya.And we only received the Armstrong money 2 week ago ffs.

Selling assets? We have sold one asset in Armstrong who had 12 month left on his contract. Find it hilarious that you are calling out people for their interpretation of FFP.This coming from the man who won't accept the free transfer signings that have been made have been expensive deals, they would all of got signing on fees.You don't even include Ayala when discussing our transfer spend despite you yourself criticising the club for not paying the price to get him last year when it looked like he was heading to Saudi Arabia. With crowds of 10 thousand, sponsorship down, miniscule TV money,a wage bill far exceeding our income,spent more on transfers than received.You explain how the club isn't really under threat of not meeting FFP requirements???

Middlesbrough are well In profit on player transfers regardless if they wasted their parachute payments.

Is it massively in our favour?If I live in your world maybe yes, where the likes of Ayala and Holtby took massive wage drops with no signing on fees to join us Brereton and Gallagher were 12 alone.Armstrong would have hit a few clauses so we will say conservatively 2 million.Kaminski we paid a fee for ,Pickering,loan fees.Signing on fees for others.Plus as our wages show we are spending a lot more than we are bringing in which the owners are covering. The club must also be psychic that Armstrong was going to be worth that sort of money, he went up a level for 18 months and again through gross mismanagement we ended up getting a poor deal because of the length in his contract, but a good deal in the circumstances

Chaddy did a breakdown not too long ago of the profits they have made from player sales I can't remember the exact figures but they were well in Boro's favour.And yeah it will help signing players from abroad if you can pay what they are paying

My point with Rhodes Is Venkys are not in this to make a few million pound off player sales.There is no evidence to suggest they are. Mate the "frees" you go on about were not free they were expensive deals as you even said yourself last season regarding Ayala.And you know that Holtby ,Rodwell ,Johnson and Downing would have done well When you ain't selling any player then transfer fees of 7 million and 5 Million with our level of income is going beyond what we should be spending.The owners are putting that money in and there is no evidence to suggest that they are in this to make a bit of profit.Even last January we could have sold Armstrong if we wanted to. The stuff about the ground I agree but that isn't the part I'm arguing, I'm arguing the owners spend money on the squad but they appoint the wrong people to spend it. Like IV said I think they have no interest in us but if the manager asks he gets and they don't sell players unless they are practically forced too. I just don't get why they pay Waggott 300 grand a year and he doesn't even have the authority to clear up around the ground.These guys have loads of businesses and they want to be bothered with such trivial matters? If it takes months for a simple thing like that to be sorted out then inside the ground must have no chance of being sorted.

My argument is he wasn't bought purely to make a profit on him.I still think 40% was too much.20% standard, he wanted to leave and Newcastle weren't trying to stop him.A player is worth what someone is willing to pay and although I know Preston were in for him there wasn't that much interest in him at the time.His last loan spell in the championship with Bolton hadn't gone well and he wasn't spectacular for us in league one either

We were so desperate to get a profit out of Armstrong we gave up 40% of the deal to get it done?That doesn't make sense. And Brererton cost 7 million and Gallagher 5 is it beyond the realms of possibility that we have stupidly agreed to such a clause in their contracts aswell?With the best will in the world they would have to have seriously hit the ground running to have made a quick profit on those 2.But I don't think selling players is a bad thing anyway if some of the profit is reinvested. You can argue with me till you are blue in the face but Jordan Rhodes wanted out of here a long time before he agreed to sell him and we had offers of similar to what we eventually got for him.Im not one to make out I'm itk but this is one thing I know to be true and it's from the Rhodes end.They do not sell players easy, but for me that is a black mark because sometimes you just have to see the bigger picture and you have to sell an asset to strengthen other areas.We never sell players and when we do we don't get what we should. He brought 12 players to the club last season ,half of them loans but still add them all together and it will still have cost the club a pretty penny especially when you are committing to a 4 year deal for Ainsley Pears.Dont you find that odd, that everyone else gets a 2+1 year deal but a son of an ex teammate of a manager gets this deal. They have no interest in us but if the manager asks for something he gets it.But after bringing 12 players to the club last season and to have as poor a season as we did then I don't blame them from pulling back a bit.I blame them for not sacking him. I still think they will allow him to bring a striker in permanent

A left back yes but a right back won't be in the manager's thoughts.Rankin Costello will alternate with Nyambe, I wouldn't do that but Mowbray will.And if Carter isn't sent on loan then he will come in if those two ain't available or Costello is moved further up the field

Not absolving the owners of anything. I'm pointing out the fact that they have spent money on the squad in Mowbrays reign,there is no denying or disputing that. Every summer Mowbray has been here he has brought at least 6 players in through a mixture of transfer fees,free transfers and loans. Money brought in Raya, Nuttall and two week ago Armstrong. People can come up with theories if they so wish that the likes of Brererton and Gallagher were signed as a way of making a quick profit.Yet both hardly start a game in their first 2 seasons at the club, no profit forthcoming and the manager is still in situ. The high cost free transfer deals signed off, no profit was ever coming from any of those signings. The extensions to the out of contract and out of favour players after the covid break again signed off no problem.All facts.Not things made up to suit my argument. And yeah I'm sure Suhail gives weekly reports to the owners about the over grown weeds etc outside the ground.

Scott Wharton isnt fit and probably won't be fully match fit till Christmas hence the need for a left footed centre back preferably being able to play left back too

I agree that they hold little interest in us, I have never argued that point.How could I?It's clear for all to see. We were obviously bought to give the Venky name exposure in Europe.And although I do not use it as an excuse for them , initially when they bought the club they were misled in my opinion. All the guff about leasing players and qualifying for Europe with a 5 million budget that seed was obviously planted in their heads by others, Mrs Desai didn't wake up one morning and decide all that. On Brererton and Gallagher being bought for a quick sale and to make profit ,I find that a stretch too.Brererton and Gallagher hardly started a match in their first two years at the club if that was the case then surely Mowbray would be gone by now? And like you said yourself last season regarding Ayala.You critizised the owners and the club for not putting the money up to secure the center half the club was crying out for when it appeared that he was heading to Saudi Arabia. The high cost deals which that were for Downing (first time) Ayala,Johnson, Holtby...those signings weren't made with a profit in mind. My only argument is the line we don't spend money when we clearly do.How that money is spent is another matter. On the state of the ground again I agree an utter disgrace but do the owners actually know about this?Or is it a case of the people on the ground, Waggott and Cheston etc trying to keep the costs down to make it appear that they are doing a better job than they have been doing. Just find it a stretch that the Venkys would agree to all those players to be kept on with extensions last year after the covid break but then won't shell out the few thousand it would take to give the place a general tidy up.

Last season the club brought in 12 players a mixture of permanent,loans and free transfers including Pickering and finished 15th after one of the worst runs in recent history. In all of Mowbrays summers here he has brought in at least 6 in the summer window. We have sold Raya 3 leading to 5,Nuttall 500k and Armstrong for 15 which was only 2 week ago .

And what about the likes of Armstrong, Brererton and Gallagher?The likes of Ayala,Holtby, Downing,Johnson? They were not contracted to bring those players to the club. They spend money just let it be spent stupidly

Yeah because Mowbray decided to spend 7 million on Brererton and 5 Million on Gallagher. He changed his mind and decided to blame our young goalkeeper Raya for our poor defensive record. Add up all the signings Mowbray has made permanent signings,loan signings and free transfers then come back and tell me signings weren't made .

Trybull has had his contract terminated.Hope we stay clear of trying to bring him in

Without Elliots 11 assists and 7 goals we could have been right in the mix to go down.Without Harwood Bellis being brought in our defence would have been even worse than it was. It's not a long term solution granted, but when the club is generating hardly any income and we don't have much room to move in the transfer market what other solution is there. I would argue the majority of the younger loans we have brought in have been a success in the short term.I would also argue the free transfer signings the club have made in Holtby,Johnson,Roswell etc have been far more costly to the club and haven't worked out for the most part. The majority of the experienced loan signings haven't worked out at all.

Sharpe said he doing a story tomorrow about a permanent striker deal. We have this every season.The club say different things to the media but the end result is players are brought in. Also Mowbray was only saying a week ago that no negotians over new deals yet Waggott was in the lounge at the weekend telling people that Lenihen is close to signing and Brererton not far off.So one of them is lieing.

I agree with you.I am not defending the owners I am pointing out to others that the line "they don't spend money" isn't true And I will also say this people on here every summer are demanding that we sign players etc well the money has to come from somewhere?It's not coming from any income the club recieves. Up until 2 weeks ago the club had brought in about 5 million in transfer fees the last 4 years. We spend much more money on transfer fees and wages than the clubs who are generating similar income to ourselves.