Bit late, but thanks to philipl for translating a balance sheet/accounts into something hopefully most of can understand. Maybe even Vinjay.

I saw that too Laurence. Interesting read. Is this a sign of the media slowly moving away from our bullies tag? Should the journo be corrected on the colour of Savage's Lamborghini. Or maybe the yellow one is just used as a little runaround.

Shurley it's too much to expect an optimistic post from SG194 about this (record half season ticket sales for anyone not registered on the official site)?

Fair point Paul. Jim, here is a map of the tram routes, showing which stations have parking. I'd recommend getting a tram - Old Trafford or Pomona (I think) stations are only 10 mins walk from the ground and although there might be a bit of a queue for a tram after the game, I'd bet getting away from the OT area in a car is far worse. There's a few tram stations handy for the M60.

'The Amoruso Incident' - I'm curious, please remind me Jan. By the way, could make a good title for a film.

JP, I think that's to win the Cup rather than to win at OT. Is that what you meant N8?

Had a scout around and can't find the game on any bookies' sites yet. Betfair have us as about 10/3 to qualify though, about 15/2 (outsiders of the four) to win the final as well.

So from the away fans seats in the stratosphere, we should be able to watch Stanley no bother.

Aha, great minds Dave........ 'are you Vinjay in disguise?' were exactly my thoughts.

Hope that little yellow rascal has a tongue firmly in a cheek.

There was me trying to be diplomatic and along comes Gord.........

Spencey, get yourself a new argument : well said Mr Shillito, so that's the qualitative stuff sorted out. The stuff you can measure - the cards - Todd hasn't had a yellow (92er) in League, League Cup or FA Cup, and he's only had one red. The ban vs Spurs might be the other you're thinking of, but that was retrospective. As Shillito said, if you're looking for dirty/cheating gits, Essien and Diouf must be towards the top of the list that also includes Sissoko, maybe Phil Neville (2 reds), Boa Morte, and someone that's been booked more than Savage and has I'm pretty sure played less games - Davids. Now I'm off to chuck this anorak in the bin.

Errrr, and Craig Short. And Dizzy.

Jan, is that a polite way of saying there might be a 45 ton juggernaut around the corner next time I step off the pavement?

Are you one of Vinjay's mates? Todd's disciplinary record this season : 1 red (which by the way if you remember was harsh to say the least) and 0 yellows. Source. You'll see six or seven Rovers players with worse disciplinary records there. Pretty good, but arguably on a par with Toddy is the Admiral with 2 yellows. And that's only comparing him to other Rovers players, you might want to look at others in the Prem. Far from a saint I'll admit, but no way the biggest of sinners. So I suggest you might want to promote your argument with some different evidence. EDIT - aaaaargh, agreeing with Jan! That's happened twice now . What's happening to me!

Stop exaggerating. Twice a season and the cross ends up in the fans behind the goal . It's the nature of Rovers fans to moan - if we had MGP's clone on the right wing we'd still complain.

Waggy (et al), I agree that it's the single thing that'd make the most difference. We all know it's going to cost though. I've no idea what you do/earn but imagine going to your bank manager and asking for a personal loan, say 10 thousand. He'd want to know your plan for paying it back before giving you an answer. Analogy to a new striker : the money man/men/people will want to know exactly the same. OK, European football is a possibility, but at best surely no better than an evens chance. And have our past European excursions been big money spinners? Second thing that could be argued is it would increase gate money. Would you be confident making that case with what's been happening to attendances for the past year or two? Third thing is the player's value would increase so that he could be sold on for a profit in a couple of years. That's the only reason where a case could be argued IMHO. There isn't a strong case. I'll try not to be pessimistic again today.

It's not good USA, but when Bolton get the whole Darwen End and around 1000 make the long journey, it perhaps explains things a bit. Then again maybe we should credit Bolton fans with a bit of sense - for not shelling out to watch a team that play like that.

Got the radio on as I type - Radio 5 have Brad (again!) as the 'expert' for the early game this aft : Wigan v WBA. And one of the commentators is ...... Alan Green. I won't be able to listen but be interested to hear from others if any comments ref Bolton are made! I think some of the off air discussions could be interesting .

Very diplomatic and very correct jbn. I suspect Spencey is suffering from delusions of grandeur - if we were challenging for the title, the players you mention might well be weak links, but we're mid-table with an outside chance of Europe. What did we pay for those 4 : less than 4 million I think? And I doubt their combined wages are crippling in the football/Rovers scheme of things. I'm no Gray fan, but would say he's been excellent against Wigan and MU, and Todd was excellent against MU. Yep Reidy is a bit keen on shooting since Wigan, resulted in the winner against Portsmouth if I remember right. If there was an obvious pass on and he shoots instead by all means have a gripe but more often than not there isn't. I'd prefer to see him running past two or three midfielders/defenders and having a pop rather than see Bert poncing about beating a defender then going back for another go before losing the ball/getting a throw in/crossing into the BE. IMHO without a drastic re-vamp for almost the entire team (which ain't going to happen), there's only one way we'll finish much higher than where we are now - an expensive partner for Bellamy (and some magic liniment for Bellamy's hamstrings - apols, that's two ways). On the funds from sub-20k crowds make your own mind up how likely that is. So get used to who we have now.

There's a fair bit of truth in that Mr Aggy. If there'd been a ref in charge with a bit of bottle, Bolton would have been down to 8 or 9. Maybe if his team's 'style' gets called ugly again, he'll send the boys round (but if it's those that appeared on the Riverside today, we'll be fine). So perhaps we should look for another description - Abs, do you reckon there's a pulse ?

Didn't have time to read the whole doc but congratulations to all involved - it must have taken a lot of effort to put together and you've done a fine job. As Scotty said, probably a bit late for suggestions but in case the club pick up on your thoughts and are looking for more............. - I was talking to a mate who runs a junior club (over here, near Leeds). I've tried to interest him in the 'coaching + game' offer that Rovers run but no success yet : he was telling me though that they'd recently gone on a similar package to Newc (cos quite a few parents follow them apparently). Not entirely sure on what was included - something like a couple of hours coaching, lunch at the ground, and a Prem game in the afternoon - but the cost was something like 50 quid a head, which I'm pretty sure is a fair bit more than Rovers would charge. Shows there is the market out there and cost isn't necessarily the biggest factor. Makes me think there must be the possibility to better market this sort of thing around E Lancs. - don't know if the bunch I work for still do this but for quite a few years our office (in Leeds) had a handful of STs at Elland Rd (so a couple of reps could take a few potential customers). I'm sure we must have a few 'corporate STs' at Ewood too but is there room for a few more? What if Rovers mailed all/some local businesses, maybe offered an incentive if needed? Same sort of idea could be used for local Working Mens Clubs and the like I would have thought : I'm sure some individual members are ST holders but what about a club having a couple of STs that members could use? There's lots of WMCs/political clubs around the area. - bit different theme and something along these lines is described in 4.5.3 in the doc : what about using similar ideas to those of other clubs eg the neutral section at Fulham. Now I know the potential for this might be a bit different in E Lancs compared to London (!) but with the Darwen End Upper being empty for about half the games each season, is there an area that could be used for something like this? Similarly, I've spoken to quite a few folk at work who have come to Ewood for the odd game (v Liverpool, Arsenal and the like) to see some of the big names (Gerrard, Henry etc) and we're the closest Prem team and they're always amazed they can get tickets. Is there a way of cost-effectively reaching this audience?

Just in case you don't believe 1864 and myself, this is from the BBC site........ in an article dated 7 January.

Yep (Okocha, Jaidi, Diouf, and I think there's one other I can't remember. EDIT It's Faye.). Fadiga wasn't picked though (Senegal?) so he's still available, and I was thinking their new keeper might be away but he's from Oman (I think) so is avail if Jaaskelainen isn't flavour of the month.

[JIM MODE ON] That's us out of the cup then. We NEVER (OK, once) do well at West Ham - since 1990 : P12 W1 D2 L9 . If we're incredibly lucky and get em back to Ewood, we'll win - in the same period P11 W8 D2 L1. It's a home banker, concentrate on the Carling Cup then! [JIM MODE OFF]