Is it not a worry that so many first teamers either weren't fit enough to participate or indeed came off? Kaminski, Brereton and Lenihan are all explained, but no Armstrong, Dolan, Gallagher, Pears or Ayala, as well as Johnson limping off, so half a dozen that went to Scotland are already not right. Totally on board with taking precautions in pre-season, but why are so many unfit? Also, Mowbray is already coming across as crabby and miserable post match. Maybe he is fed up with things above his head, all pointing towards a long slog of a season.

Not at all. A mixture of kids on loan, freebies and the likes of Davenport and Chapman again "being like new signings."

And so it begins, the whole "support the team" rhetoric. How is the atmosphere according to anyone there? For what its worth, I dont agree with anyone not attending trying to lecture those who do attend either way. Ive not attended today and would never tell those who have to either give stick or dont.

Is he? Sort of get Kaminski, but with Ayala, Lenihan, Dolan, Armstrong and one or two others not playing, doesn't seem logical not to get 45 minutes under their belts. Maybe we are keeping away any risk of Armstrong jeopardising a transfer away by pulling up. Maybe we wont sign anyone until he goes.

No idea to the first and third questions. All I know is we do need to sign some players. Surely this revamped scouting network should be paying for itself. No I wouldn't have and you know I wouldn't have, but they still need replacing. Johnson and Chapman should have been released too, the former injured already. Some considerable wages shifted but a paper thin squad.

Says on the official site that this is the team for the second half: Rovers (second half): Stergiakis, Nyambe, Saadi, Annesley, Whitehall, Davenport, Travis (c), Butterworth, Vale, McBride, Durrant. Maybe Armstrong is off and Ayala has another injury?

As expected, essentially a youth team. Wonder if Mowbray will be questioned on how he has allowed the squad to become so thin after the game?

Where would you expect such a squad to finish under Mowbray, out of interest? Surely with a weaker squad we will be lower in the table? Assuming that they are similar to Harvey Elliott and Taylor Harwod-Bellis, which is a high standard of loanee, one that has quality that we couldn't normally afford, then that is all well and good, on the top of a squad with the required levels of experience. When you lose the experience that we have done through Holtby, Evans, Bennett etc, correctly so, but call up academy graduates to replace them then start signing loanees who havent played much if any senior football, it seems a recipe for disaster to me especially if we are scrapping at the wrong end of the table. Reach has been mentioned a lot but he is obviously a downgrade on Elliott, and if Armstrong inevitably goes and we do not bring in a 28 goal striker to replace him, obviously a nigh on impossible task, the whole picture changes. Who is competing to play at left back in your squad?

I think we need a new manager first and foremost and that cant be forgotten. But then a left back to challenge (not be back up) to Pickering, a centre back, a right back, at least one defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and at least one winger. Then of course a good striker to replace Armstrong, in which case we may need an additional further attacking player. If we are counting players like Wharton, Pickering, Brereton and Travis as experienced players then we are in a muddle. Of the 5 youngsters you mention, I would probably loan out 2 or 3. Vale couldnt get near Rochdales team, why is he suddenly good enough to be part of our squad? Butterworth needs some regular game time to see if his body can cope rather than 10 minutes here and there. Carter perhaps keep until January at which point Wharton will be fully fit and maybe a loan spell would suit Carter. The other 2, either loan or in the under 23s but of course supplementing the first team. Are we allowed 7 subs or 9? We cant expect all 5 to be all good enough and more importantly to give them all the game time required.

We may have different views and standards on how much experience we need, how much reliance we can place on our untested youngsters, how high this current crop of players managed by Mowbray can realistically finish and how many recruits we need. But im sure we will both agree that the club needs to pull its finger out and get players in as soon as possible.

Would agree with all of your points, my team was what I expect to see, but in regards to quality, depth and the contractual situation, bang on the money. A further worry is the age/experience being skewed even further towards youth on the back of the release of the experience that we had, and the inevitable loaning of kids. Overseen by Mowbray too! Worrying.

Says who?

As we head into pre-season with no new recruits or indeed seemingly any sign of any, it is striking how paper thin and inexperienced our squad looks. Assuming that Rankin Costello and the post Copa America Brereton are in the opening day squad and we get no injuries (with a few rather prone to them) over pre-season, and that Armstrong (and indeed everyone) stays or is directly replaced, all massive assumptions, I have our squad down as something like this: Kaminski, Nyambe, Lenihan, Ayala, PIckering, Johnson, Travis, Rothwell, Gallagher, Armstrong, Brereton Subs: Pears, Carter, Dolan, Chapman, Davenport, Buckley A big issue is the lack of experience and the seemingly lack of character. You strip away all of that experience that we have lost, correctly in terms of not warranting new deals, but then you factor in that we are likely to be reliant on the loan market, borrowing kids on top of an already very young squad doesn't bode well. Contracts are also another mismanaged area, Lenihan, Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell and Brereton amongst others all going into their final year. Chuck in a rubbish manager and you struggle to see much to get excited about. Take Armstrong's goals out and its a squeeze to stay up surely.

I will address the main points regarding the current make up of our squad in the transfer thread, tomorrow's game is neither here nor there, a fitness exercise against a non league side with no importance on it, so in regards to tomorrow, no worries there. If you disagree and are happy to put your eggs all in the basket of the majority if not all of a clutch of youngsters all breaking through and excelling simultaneously, fair play, I think that is so risky. I am sure that you watch the under 23's every week to be able to be so patronising, either way thats beside the point that I was making, that the squad as it stands going into pre season is devoid of much quality, any depth and crucially much if any experience.

That and 28 goals.

Rankin Costello isn't back in full training and @JoeH said that Gallagher and Dolan have knocks, so take them 3 out. Elsewhere, Cirino, Pike, Garrant (who?) and McBride have never kicked a senior ball. The likes of Chapman, Pickering, Davenport, Buckley etc have yet to fully prove themselves at this level so I stand by my initial statement. So much for making an early start in the transfer market as reported in April! Our squad is a shell devoid of any real quality and experience when you put it down like that.

Exactly. We cannot praise owners whose disinterest not only stunts us on the field but also increases our losses, simply because they then raise funds via share issues to cover those losses, something they have no choice with!

I presume it will be 2 teams full of kids with basically no senior experience left.

I find this constant disingenuous nonsense that the LT and indeed our fans come out with ad nauseum to be infuriating, looking at the phrase in bold. It is made out as if Venkys voluntarily chuck in 20m a year through a genuine passion for the club to do well. When in fact what it means is that they need to raise the finance usually via share issues to cover their own inefficiencies. Whether that be poor supporter engagement, disinterest from the owners leaving incompetent managers in charge, poor pricing policies, inefficient expenditure on transfers and wages, contracts dished out without being earnt, an incompetent CEO on a grossly inflated salary, it may be nigh on impossible to be a competitive and profitable Championship club, but the losses are down to Venkys, and them issuing shares to offset them is not out of love.

He must still be getting paid by Venkys.

There seems to be this regular thing whereby people throw their toys out of the pram when they are questioned over incredibly vague rumours, it seems to be the in thing to be an ITK these days which I do not get. The Wyke "rumour" was chucked in like a stink bomb with absolutely no context whatsoever, either initially or upon further questioning. At which stage, what use really was it? And indeed it turned out to be nonsense, he went to League 1 Wigan within days, and we still arent sure that we can even sign players. Everyone will be receptive to genuine rumours but a bit of clarity is all it takes. If it is from social media, provide a link or a screenshot so we can decide whether its from a sad spotty teenager wanting likes or a credible journalist, or somewhere in between. If it is genuinely from a source that cannot be identified, at least give some indication on where.

Seems to be getting to the season of random transfer rumours thrown in without context that in the main turn out to be nonsense. Still unclear as to whether we can sign players.

159 pages and still we are in the dark about whether we can even sign players at all! It was back in April that chaddy shared a report that Mowbray was supposedly working on transfers. Gone well.

Where are these "sneaky rumours" from? Such a mindset implies that there is only one way to get out of the Championship. A sensible, well run club (assuming that Armstrong has been allowed to get into a situation like most of the squad with a year left on his deal in the first place) may well sell and reinvest. But with Mowbray in charge, and with the current squad minus Armstrong, could we not very well go down? And indeed Armstrongs goals may be valuable in getting us a stay in this league for an extra year closer to when Mowbray finally goes? If we do sell, the money will vanish anyway. Im not saying that we shouldnt sell but its not clear cut.

@RoversClitheroe was the unspecified rumour regarding Wyke meant to be that he is coming to the North West rather than specifically Rovers? https://the72.co.uk/241503/wigan-athletic-hoping-to-beat-celtic-to-sign-sunderland-striker-charlie-wyke/