I think that you want to become far too dependant on young players, which is so dangerous. With Mowbray in charge and Armstrong potentially leaving, we are likely to be fighting at the wrong end of the table, we need much more experience to accompany our young players, you don't want 2 youngsters fighting for a place, ideally it would be a senior player and a younger player kicking at his heels. For example, you suggest our 2 right attacking players to be Rankin Costello and Dolan. Neither has yet proven themselves to be capable at this level, I would keep both at the club as I said but we need a more senior option above that, Rankin Costello obviously will be needed at right back I presume too, but we need at least 1 if not 2 wide men on top of Brereton who is slightly more proven but still not fully and then Dolan, Chapman and Rankin Costello all of whom are still in the "promising youngster category." I have no idea why a 21 year old centre back is in the last chance saloon in your head. A centre back is less likely to get opportunities in that unlike attacking players, you don't bring on a young defender for 20 minutes at the end. With Ayala made of glass and Wharton set to start the season on the sidelines, the question is, would if necessary you trust Carter to start on the opening day if necessary, my personal preference would be to sign a more proven centre back, and to loan Carter out for one more season. Pike as an individual I see less urgency to loan out, he is 2/3 years younger than Butterworth and hasn't seemingly had major injury problems, so another season playing under 23's but training with the first team and third choice at right back behind Nyambe and Rankin Costello may not be unwise. Your evidence is massively flawed though. You dismiss the success of Wharton who went on loan and looked far more competent and ultimately grown up prior to his injury, Lenihan and Raya also benefitted from successful loan spells. Some players will of course just come straight in like Nyambe and Travis but each case is different and there is no pattern to just say anyone worth his salt we should keep around. For me, the key is balance, you don't want too much reliance or too many youngsters around the first team at once otherwise it doesn't tend to end well. We have the likes of Rankin Costello, Chapman, Dolan, Brereton, Butterworth, Vale and McBride in attacking areas, all seemingly highly rated, and all of whom are 23 and under. It is impossible to keep them all around the first team and give them anything like regular minutes, even off the bench. We need 3 or 4 above the youngsters with more experience, we have the average Gallagher and of course the soon to depart Armstrong, so we need probably 2 or 3 more. A loan spell would also be able to prove that he is physically robust enough to play consecutive games, as well as his ability. But as mentioned above, the key is getting the balance right for me, we have so many young attacking players yet to fully establish themselves to varying degrees. We don't want to keep too many at once without loaning a few, otherwise it will be difficult to give them all the game time needed for their development.

There is a balance in that you dont want to keep hold of too many youngsters whereby they get into each others way. For example, defensively obviously Pickering should stay as our sole left back, at centre back I would personally keep Wharton and loan out Carter. In midfield, I would sign 2, I would probably keep Buckley and Davenport who would both benefit from the loss of 4 or 5 in there although maybe the latter in particular could do with some regular game time elsewhere. In attack, we have Butterworth, Dolan, Rankin Costello and Chapman all of whom need to play game time, with none of them yet fully proven, so it is hard to juggle all of them at once, because we need one or two more experienced and proven options especially now Elliott has gone. I would personally loan out Butterworth who needs game time the most, Dolan himself maybe could do with a loan but I think he should stay for the time being, especially as Rankin Costello needs to cover right back. Even beyond that we have the likes of Pike, McBride and Vale who all probably are best suited getting a loan spell if possible.

Like I said, you are just selecting random examples, Lenihan, Raya and Wharton all benefitted from loans. Loads of the examples you gave who went out on loan are not very good and are at best in League 2. Butterworth should be judged as an individual, you can find positive and negative cases both from former loanees and players who have stayed, both at Rovers and elsewhere. You dont think he has a better chance of regular football at a League 1 or League 2 club? If he cant get that then he wont be good enough for us anyway. But do you see Butterworth as potentially getting regular game time here? Also, would you be against loaning youngsters from other clubs if you feel that our youngsters are best served staying here?

The key is that each case is individual, talent and thus readiness for the first team. Youve just listed loads of poor players who all are nowhere near the standard required. There is no point selecting other individuals because it is a case by case basis, there are loads (not specific to Rovers) of players who have broken through without a loan and succeeded, there are loads who have used loan spells to really ramp up their development, (Armstrong was one of those) there are players who have suffered on the back of not being loaned out and there are players who have been loaned out incorrectly where they havent been played. I just think for Butterworth that he is in dire need for regular football considering his last couple of years in which he has suffered from injuries. If he stays, do you genuinely see him coming straight in and getting regular game time, especially via starts? Like I said with Dolan, much younger, in a position where we at the time had only an unfancied Chapman as an alternative. Travis, Raya, Rankin Costello etc all broke in younger. Raya, Lenihan and Wharton all benefitted from loans. But the key is that Butterworth needs to be judged as an individual, no point comparing other players to him. As a player who has never started a proper game, with the injury issues that hes had, plenty of time left and still young of course, go and prove not only that you have the talent to regularly impact at say League 1 level, but perhaps more questionably are physically robust enough to do so and not break down. He wont prove that playing against kids or for 10/20 minutes here and there.

Each case regarding a loan is individual, you cant take such a small selective sample to prove a point. It depends on a variety of factors, including age, likelihood of game time, position etc. Loads of youngsters have broken through via loans, and loads have done so without. @islander200 you mention Dolan but he was 4 years younger, Butterworth has missed so much of his development due to injury. Dolan was also trying to break through out wide where at the start of last season we were short with Elliott yet to sign, starting 4 of the first 5 and only 6 league games after that. Butterworth wouldnt start even if we made no signings before the season as a number 10 with Rothwell and maybe Buckley ahead of him, although I would not allow the loan until we get some bodies through the door ourselves to be fair.

Each case is individual to the player, Wharton seemed set to kick on and establish himself after benefitting from maturing out on loan and Lenihan also propelled himself off the back of a loan at Burton Albion. Butterworth has never started a professional football game, surely regular game time is better than sanitised kids football and the odd cameo?

Signings or no signings, I wouldn't be playing anything like the tactics that Mowbray seemingly wants to play next season regardless. Trying to get a team that is not particularly good technically to dominate possession leads to slow, laboured football creating very little in the way of clear cut chances, and that is before you consider the nonsensical fads he creates such as wide strikers and false 9's. We need to change tactics and indeed managers. My comments were not about the individuals who I mentioned, but we didn't refrain from signing them or indeed anyone because we have better players lined up. Its not some insatiable lust for transfer news, but we are one of the minority who haven't signed anyone because of our incompetent and negligent ownership and management causing an embargo. Many of the players that have signed for various teams I can't profess to seeing on a regular basis, although Vrancic and Matty James would both have provided experienced upgrades as free agents to our powder puff midfield. To be fair, both tend to be linked pretty strongly. And neither is unfortunately in evidence where he is at the moment. Would you keep Butterworth at the club this season or allow him out on loan, considering that he has never started a proper game of football?

It is hardly as if Butterworth is finished and it isn't his age that is the issue, it is the fact that he has spent so much of his development years in the treatment room. Regular football out on loan could spark his career rather than a year of stagnation playing for the kids team. Warnock seems to be thinking outside of the box with an Argentinian midfielder about to sign for Boro: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/middlesbrough-confident-martin-payero-succeed-21040247

HIs point was not about his ability, it was about the fact that such serious injury problems could have a huge impact on his development. The first friendly in pre-season full of kids playing against a non league side is not any sort of barometer. For me, the only sensible option is to loan him out, he needs to start matches in senior football, probably in League 1. My point was merely about teams being much more proactive than us, not inhibited by incompetent administration and negligent owners. Lets not kid that our maestro of a manager has got everything under control or is turning his nose up at these in favour of better alternatives. Regarding the individuals though, we are in dire need of experience, our team is totally lacking in experience and character. You have dismissed Vrancic simply based on baseless speculation on his wages, he would be a huge upgrade on a central midfield we have that isnt all that convincing, whether it is players who have 5 ineffective games for every good one (Johnson, Rothwell) or players yet to establish themselves. (Davenport and Buckley) Mowatt is an excellent player although always unattainable. I think Matty James again would easily walk into our midfield, King I am less sure on. We have obviously signed Pickering permanently so a young left back on loan was never likely, I suppose McAllum has the one advantage of actually playing at Championship level (League 1 is poor) but we always should prefer our own players so we have to wait and see on Pickering. Likewise with Carter, his loan spell bodes well but he was so out of his depth for us prior and you do wonder if it is better for him to get more games in League 1, I think we need another centre back especially with Ayala's fondness for the injury table and Wharton set to miss a chunk of the season. Atkinson on the same logic again is a risk and I have not seen much if any of him. Leighton Clarkson has barely kicked a ball in senior football so nothing to judge him on and for me not a deal I particularly hope we pursue. Reach is a weird one, his career has spiralled into nothingness and seems like a lazy link based again on Boro connections. But as you say, only counts when they are done.

QPR are very busy in the market, Jimmy Dunne has signed from Burnley (talented CB) as has McAllum who is a full back/wing back who was at Coventry last season but is a loanee from Norwich. West Brom in Mowatt and the imminent loan of Clarke at CB are starting to re-build, and Bristol City have signed Atkinson from Oxford for a fee as well as getting James and King providing experience in midfield. Vrancic is an eye catching signing for Stoke too. Rovers meanwhile? Can tumbleweed play as a wide forward?

So, it predictably seems like the talk of an Obafemi and Armstrong swap deal is more Nixon nonsense. We really are in a pickle with Armstrong, allowing him to get to a year left on his deal. He surely wont sign a new deal, and we seemingly are expecting an amount beyond his value, so it will either drag on until the end of the window, stopping the rest of our incoming business and setting up more excuses, or even stay for his last year and we see a valuable asset leave on a free. I am personally just interested in good players, not ones pigeon holed into Mowbray's nonsensical tactics. I qualified my suggestion by saying that I don't think that Mowbray will sign him, and indeed if he did, he would misuse him. But he is a good Championship striker who fits the criteria of a free agent. I disagree that, barring a real overachievement with a top quality manager, which even then would be a push, that the above team is anything close to a top 6 side. I am not sure if any of those individuals would get into a top 6 side. When Armstrong inevitably leaves, I have no doubt that our team is weaker than the one last season, especially without Elliott and Harwood Bellis. I think it is important to try and upgrade in numerous positions to compensate for the drop off in our main striker. Pickering could hopefully be one of those upgrades, assuming that he justifies his reputation. Of course as you touch on, the key is the management team and whilst a top 6 finish with the above side is unrealistic IMO, we need someone to get more than the sum of its parts from a team. Sadly, we are burdened with someone who will likely underachieve. I am not sure that I am overly comfortable with the idea of another striker in Obafemi shoved out wide, although it seems that there is no mileage to that rumour according to todays Lancashire Telegraph. Diedhou would need good crosses, someone like Adam Reach (again free) may be suited to providing a player like that with service. You do wonder as to the extent his horrendous injury issues will have on his career. Surely it is a sensible decision to loan him out this season and get him regular game time and judge from there. Kids football and an occasional cameo is not good for a player whose development has already stunted.

Famara Diedhou is being strongly linked with Boro and Swansea on a free transfer. 1 in 3 goal record and a powerful targetman who always seems to cause us problems and can link play too. Too sensible for Mowbray though who would have him out wide in his deluded idealistic tika taka philosophy.

We can yeah, only for the last week though. And seems that no one is close to signing.

Could you please answer the question from @Ewood Ace What on earth makes you think that we should be top 6? And indeed from my point of view, do you genuinely think that, factoring in everything, potential signings you think we could and would like to make, the manager too, that we have a chance? In regards to "stop listening to other fans opinions" quite simply, no I won't. It is up to us to choose what we want to believe about players who sign or we are linked with, I personally put a lot of stock into what people who watch them week in week out thing, of course this doesn't guarantee how they would do here, they might do better or worse for various reasons, a big one being what position they play, but you don't have to factor that into your own personal judgement. Conversely, I don't put much stock into most of the data analysis, so you may be interested in crosses per game, progressive runs per game, expected goals, expected assists etc, I am not but wouldn't ask you to ignore it. Brereton being "bang in form" for Chile is a bit of an overreaction, he scored one goal in 4. It is ok saying that they need to step up to the plate but logic and historical evidence does not suggest that they are likely too. They may, or one of them may, but I doubt it. Armstrong had previously scored plenty of goals especially in one season although his goal returns in the last couple of years have been superb and to be honest, well past my expectation of him. So it could happen, but Armstrong is the exception to the rule and even then, there was more there to expect more goals from him compared to Brereton, Gallagher and Rothwell. Does it matter that we haven't been linked to players? Of course not. What matters is that we haven't signed any yet with pre-season underway, don't seem close to signing any, have missed out on targets, have the same poor manager and many players including our best one who seems destined to leave with only a year left on their deals. Grim.

I do understand that the targets shouldnt be changed just because the manager is poorer, a logical club would sack the manager if that was the case. What I dont get is how you genuinely seem to think that we could get into or challenge for the top 6 with the same manager that you want out. Same manager plus potentially the loss of a 28 goal striker yet you think there is even a slight chance that we make up a 21 point and 9 place deficit from last season? Surely you agree that having Mowbray in charge makes any play off hopes beyond us, barring an unexpected and sudden twist? I havent written off Obafemi, I dont think that we will sign him anyway but my point is that we will be weaker without Armstrong. Specifically about Obafemi, I said that he is very raw and untested, obviously talented and I also acknowledged that we probably will need to take some form of gamble on a replacement because as a bottom half Championship club on a tight budget, we cant attract or indeed afford an equal replacement. We have barely been linked with anyone because we havent been able to sign anyone, not that you would know with the lack of communication from the club. Kids on loan who have never kicked a ball in senior football like Leshabela and Clarkson? No thanks, we need experience. Johansen was linked, I think he would be a good addition. Reach is a predictable link, potentially a useful free but not well liked at his previous club. Obafemi, cant say I have ever seen much of him considering his very limited senior experience. So unsure, perhaps a similar stance to you who was "far from convinced." I suspect no one will sign for a good while yet. I also think that it is illogical to expect the rest of the team to suddenly start scoring loads more to fill any void left by Armstrong. Brereton, Gallagher, Rothwell etc, none have any real history of scoring lots of goals. Will miss Elliott too.

It is strange how some seem desperate to paint situations as negative and depressive, as if they are unnecessarily so. Keeping an underperforming, incompetent manager is not positive, selling your best player is not positive and being unable to sign players due to an embargo leaving a skeletal squad is again not positive. Unsure it if has been mentioned, but we have been linked to Pelly Ruddock who recently left Luton. Rich Sharpe just seems to be an echo chamber for rumours elsewhere rather than doing any investigative work himself, but it seems again that we are behind other teams, in this case Boro: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19434658.blackburn-rovers-midfield-transfer-need-free-agent-linked/ The thing is that you are so keen not to acknowledge the managerial situation that you don't factor it into your expectations. I am sure that we should feel like we can challenge for the play offs, but with a manager that you yourself want out, surely you accept that the chances of achieving such a target are slim to nil and that an underperforming manager will negatively affect our chances of that? Also on Obafemi, I haven't "written him off" anymore than you. My mindset is more based on Armstrong and how any replacement is not going to be as prolific and thus is likely to be inferior, therefore our squad becomes weaker. I doubt that we will even sign Obafemi, the source is a very dodgy one. My point is that we would be replacing a proven goal scorer with someone unproven. And no, I don't have any names in mind to replace him. We supposedly have a revamped scouting network to find someone, my comparative knowledge is obviously going to be very limited.

As you say, it is unlikely (very) that we would replace the goal tally that Armstrong gave us, so a Tony Mowbray managed Rovers without its main goalscorer doesnt bode well. I very much think even if we had a chunk of the Armstrong money that the calibre of players we would be looking at and able to attract are ones that are unproven in some way so maybe Obafemi would be as good as we could get. What is there to be positive about selling your best player?! Why would that be a positive thing, especially under the same manager? You yourself said that you was far from convinced about Obafemi didnt you?

What makes you say incredible? The best of a bad situation perhaps, but we are losing a proven, prolific goalscorer off the back of a 28 goal season to potentially replace with a raw and unproven replacement.

I actually think that Mowbray is right to have a grievance as to the incompetence above him that had caused us to be under a totally avoidable transfer embargo. As it is, said incompetence from our handsomely paid CEO and of course the continued negligence of our owners helps to keep him in a job that he no longer merits, so I suppose it is swings and roundabouts in that if the owners and the running of the club were proactive and effective, then he wouldn't be here. The Obafemi rumour seems like a Nixon special, there is "a lot to do on the deal" ie it is unlikely to materialise but cannot be proven wrong. As it is, a swap could be a very useful method of getting in a replacement, although I am unsure if Obafemi would be valued to ensure that Newcastle are not short changed by a loop hole on any deal. As it is, Obafemi is a very raw kid who no one can claim to really have seen much of, very little senior experience and 4 career goals, plus a serious muscular injury last season. Him replacing a 28 goal striker might well be the best that we can get, assuming it is a permanent deal rather than a loan which would be a no go 100%. But it would be hard to view the deal as anything other than a massive downgrade, replacing a proven goalscorer with a raw talent, on the back of losing Elliott, it all doesnt really bode well but with Armstrong having only a year left, what else can we do?!

Equally, what is the point in suggesting and discussing rumoured transfer targets? It has equal relevance (none) to what will happen, but people are just discussing it on a forum. Fact of the matter is that he is a hindrance that cant be swept under the carpet until he either is finally sacked, leaves or creates a sudden and remarkably unexpected resurgence. And his existence in his current role is of massive relevance both to recruitment and indeed how our season is likely to unfold. So yes, people will continue to "moan" about him as long as he is playing the role of underperforming manager.

I think that we are a long way away from worrying about having 25 senior players, isnt it over the age of 21?

I didn't suggest that we take risks, I said quite the opposite and that was not the suggestion or point that I was making, indeed what I was saying was a point that has clearly evaded you. Johnson injured his hamstring according to Mowbray.

Because you are focusing on quantity rather than quality. Davenport and Buckley are both in a combined 5 seasons (Davenport has been here for 3, Buckley in the first team squad properly for 2) yet to convince and really establish themselves as first team players, even when they have played. I think 2 new established players (either in a 3 or even one defensive and one number 10) along with Travis would improve an area that I have not been convinced with for a while. That would then leave Rothwell, Johnson (who is injured now and I really think needs phasing out) along with Davenport and Buckley to compete with them. 4 gone from the wage bill and 2 replacements so we would still be leaner than last season. I have looked at Rich Sharpe's twitter and couldnt see anything like you mentioned, hence why I asked.

I said that precautions are understandable, but just that I found it a little alarming that as many as 6 players were unable to either participate today or indeed in Johnson's case came off early, on the back of the training camp.

Firstly on the owners, losses are common place and tend to be propped up by the owners, whether it is via share issues or even loans, that is not an advantage. Take Preston, run far more efficiently and proactively, but still make losses which are funded by Trevor Hemmings. The manager is a key variable that isnt changing so surely underachievement is likely to continue? I would agree that Armstrong would be an enviable asset for every time in the league, not just most. His future is critical, his goal record is tremendous and would likely always keep our heads above water. Sadly, I just cannot see him staying, unlikely to sign a new deal so otherwise we will lose him for free. Easy to get caught up in Chile mania but Brereton could make himself a decent Championship attacker but at this moment in time he wouldn't get in that many teams. Other teams may be struggling but we have lost a hell of a lot too, even putting aside the Armstrong situation and the practical impossibility of an equally prolific replacement. Elliott is a huge loss, a big source of goals and also assists and creativity, I would be amazed if we can replace him equally either. You mention Reach, not looked at fondly by Sheffield Wednesday fans, does score and assist to a lesser degree, but if you also had him as second choice left back, he is a Pickering injury or loss of form (looks good on paper but yet to play at this level) away from being taken away from the attacking void to which he would be expected to fill. We have lost Williams from the first half of the season and Harwood Bellis from the second. There is no evidence that Ayala will suddenly be able to play much and indeed he was already unable to play today. With Wharton missing the start of the season, we have to sign a first team centre back as well as a left back in my opinion. In the midfield, I think Ewood Ace hit the nail on the head as quoted. Johansen to be fair would be a clever addition but I think we need more. We have lost Holtby, Evans, Downing and Trybull, 4 experienced options, none of which I would necessarily want again, but all 4 at the moment are better performers than the likes of Buckley and Davenport have proven to be. I think we need at least 2 proven players in there, I am more wary of signing untested kids on loan because we already have a very young squad, and have lost so much experience in there, the likes of Hannibal and Leshebela would be far too risky unless they were on top of 2 proven and experienced players. The hope would be that if we signed at least 2, then Davenport and Buckley could still in theory have so much scope to push through but only should they merit it, rather than being too dependant on them. Just sounds like I am being miserable and I appreciate that but I just cannot see much to get excited about at the moment. Where are the quotes about the embargo stopping us from signing players that we would have liked? Firstly, I go back to my point, no excuse whatsoever for the club never come out and actually say that we were in and are subsequently no longer in an embargo. Piss poor communication and lack of transparency, again. Also, really poor full stop to give ourselves an avoidable disadvantage. Sounds like nothing is anything like close, so another excuse too. Can't argue with that analysis at all. There are so many assumptions of players breaking through, Buckley will establish himself as a starter, Dolan will establish himself as a starter, Rankin Costello will establish himself as a starter, Chapman will kick on, Carter will kick on, Davenport will kick on, Pike, McBride, Vale and Butterworth will all be regular parts of the squad, in reality there is a balance to be had with youngsters, expecting them all or indeed most to take the first team by storm together is one hell of a dangerous game.