roversfan99

Those defending Venkys pre-empting a window with minimal spend seem to focus their argument as if the counter argument is wild, aggressive spending that will lead us into an embargo, something that nobody has suggested. There is also this constant "reminder" that Venkys are 200m down, and spend 20m a year. (which I believe is a one off and is not a common theme to have a loss quite that high) I think it is a little deceitful in that, I cannot argue that that much has been spent, but it implies that it has been done so out of ambition, which is clearly wrong, lets not get that confused. It is that much because of them, and the "investment" is actually merely them raising share capital in another company to offset the fact that one of their businesses is spending more than it is receiving. Take the link for this Matt O'Riley for example, I am very much using it as a general example because I do not know the player well, but taking him as a young player starring in League 1. In theory a player of that supposed calibre (not player specific) ticks all boxes, he wouldn't walk into our team now but he would provide much more stern competition and an added dimension to our squad for the promotion push. If we go up, great, Rothwell may sign up long term and we just have another long term asset who has helped us this season. More prudently, if we don't go up, Rothwell most likely leaves in the summer and we have a potential replacement already at the club, one less space to fill. Come the summer, we likely will have another big fee but numerous holes to fill, there is one less. Yet £1.7m is apparently beyond our means. The key is the timing, and the potential reward. This window seems particularly critical in that in a summer window, you don't know really how a season will turn out. Now we are 3rd, really in a genuine promotion push rather than with a fleeting outside hope of sneaking 6th place. Add to that the prudent potential scenario of numerous gaps in the squad, players will need to be signed in the summer and if we stay down, Brereton will no doubt be off so another substantial fee. Instead of waiting to replace all of the potential leavers to the summer, why not do a few now, sandwiched between (worst case scenario, if we dont go up, being prudent) 2 major sales, to give us much more quality competition in our promotion push?

But equally its risky to potentially leave ourselves vulnerable to injuries/suspension/covid. Our depth beyond the first 11 is pretty crap.

Well I don't, but it seems a hell of an assumption considering that the CEO or manager has never suggested this season that FFP is a reason for the cutbacks. It is also used as an excuse by some (for some reason) to justify any break in spending, as if it is assumed that we are always on the border of FFP. The accounts show the losses but not all expenses are eligible under FFP rules. To be honest though its a conversation that has been done a thousand times, if people want to assume that we are continiously spending exactly on the border of FFP regulations then that is fine and a valid opinion against my opinion. .

Going into a crucial part of the seaaon, you cant have enough attackers. But if its just 1, then id rather go for someone who has senior experience and has proven an ability to score goals rather than a total punt based on kids football.

If it is just one, then id like someone with senior experience.

I have said before that not all of the information needed for FFP calculations is in the public domain and also why I dont think we are on the border of regulations. I cant be arsed debating it again in detail, if you choose to assume that every single time we dont spend its down to FFP. The key thing is as you said that we dont know how much money we will spend, maybe Venkys will surprise me and I can credit them for showing ambition. Back to this potential signing, his lack of senior experience worries me but as a low cost buy with another striker it could be a smart move.

Yeah Carroll would be a terrible signing.

For a Championship club, they become a crucial part of recruitment if you get it right.

There is the obsession with sanctions even now but there have not been any suggestions from the club that we are on the borderline, we had the training ground sale last year, we have the Armstrong sale this year and a likely Brereton sale next year as a contingency plan. Often those who bring up FFP try and make out as if the 2 options are total frugality or wild, risk seeking spending. There is a middle ground. A constructive commitment of less than half of the Armstrong money.

I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of the owners. Obviously it is not their job to differentiate between positions etc. They cover the losses that are incurred which are much higher than they need to be down to their own negligence, their "financial support" isn't them throwing money fuelled by ambition. But a few points: - We make such big losses because of Venkys. No joined up thinking, no long term plan. The ideal model would be that we can sell on assets, buy again and repeat the process, but because of such a strict wage ceiling, those assets are allowed to run down their contracts. - We have a net spend this season of over minus 10 million, plus considerable wage savings. A fraction of that spend at a point in which we have a good chance of promotion is a small risk for a potentially gigantic reward. - The owners have appointed and left in charge an incompetent CEO who doesn't understand the town nor the buying habits of the fanbase. You seem to imply that it is the supporters responsibility without saying as such, either way that is a common illogical way of looking for it. There are different types of supporters at EVERY club, the hardcore who go regardless, a minority in boycott, those who would go but for personal circumstances/time, those who would but can't afford, and the floating fans who need enticing. It is only the clubs responsibility and no one elses to get attendances high. Our policies for years have been terrible, why haven't Venkys replaced Waggott? I am not expecting or asking for huge purchases, big wages and big risks. A fraction of the Armstrong sale invested on maybe a couple of permanent and a couple of high quality loanees to boost the squad which is very light and weak beyond the first 11. We also have a likely Brereton sale in the summer if we don't go up so with 2 summers making us so much money from only 2 players, we should go all out to get Nyambe, Rothwell, Lenihan and Travis signed too. We are in an unprecedented position under Venkys, and promotion would be a gamechanger.

The reason that we didn't expect to be in this position isn't part of a masterplan by the owners that we didn't notice. The owners didn't show the levels of interest to judge the manager on his results last season, nor to provide a competitive budget, leaving us a star striker and a number of players short and with 4 cheap loanees and a cheap sub left back coming in. Sometimes the stars align, the manager has unexpectedly done brilliantly to cast aside any thoughts of stubbornness and change the tactics and also come up with a formation that has worked really well. Add that to a number of players either staying fit, coming to the fore and of course chuck in the Brereton story and things are going well. But now we are very much in a brilliant position to push for promotion, so now is the time to strike whilst he iron is hot. If by the current powers you mean the owners, then they certainly have not ever earned the right for us to trust them. The manager has called out for resources to boost the squad, rivals are strengthening, not having a reasonable budget will not be a master stroke, and any success after that would be further credit to the manager and in spite of that decision. Alternatively, if they choose to give a few million to spend, then they would be credited for showing some ambition.

That is a big issue with loans and why it is key to getting it right. But ultimately, there is no point getting ones who come with no expectation of playing, even if that means financial penalties are a risk. We need players to really push and improve us.

I am not dismissing loans, I have I think more than many been very positive towards the idea of clubs on limited budgets at Championship utilising the loan market like we have done in the last few years, the key is ultimately to get players that are better than we could otherwise afford. My points firstly on the individual are that he has not played any first team football. Elliott had played a bit, Adarabioyo had played a season, Reed a bit more than that, Harwood Bellis only a few cup games, so I am not ruling out that if this Spurs lad did join, that he could have an immediate impact, but it is so hard to know. It is impossible to judge a player's performance and readiness for a first team environment when playing in the sanitised environment of kids football. Him as a permanent development project (around the first team obviously otherwise he wouldn't come) as well as a loan signing for the here and now might be the way to go perhaps. My second point is that I think that IF we don't spend a reasonable amount in this window, perhaps 3-4m, maybe even 2-3m, a fraction of the Armstrong money, considering the situation we find our self in and also the lack of depth that we have, it would say a lot about the ambition (or lack of) of the owners. The January window is a strange one. Teams can often expect a premium but there are also lots of players about with 6 months on their deals who we could look to attract.

Was that ever confirmed, or did it turn out to be nonsense based on some sort of assumed social media link between the club and one of his relatives?

He did and seemingly repeated today about polishing players up. No problem with that, although it does also say that he was in contract negotiations with Tottenham as if that might hold things up. As long as it is as well as a more ready made striker for the here and now, as this next 5 months is the most important.

We will see. It is a reasonable expectation to expect that if the owners genuinely do give a shit, that after the Armstrong sale, with us 3rd in the league and looking light in terms of the squad, that they invest between 2/3-4m on new signings to give it a reasonable go. We are not in a position to let any senior players go. I wouldn't want Johnson in the side for any length period of time, he should never play in defence and I would like someone to be brought into central midfield ahead of both Johnson and Davenport. But we will get injures, covid absentees, suspensions etc and we need more players, not less. He brings experience and has contributed a few times off the bench in our winning run.

Markanday has never played senior football, we need players for the here and now to help us get results in the next 5 months. Mowbray mentions polishing players but it also mentions him about to sign a new deal at Spurs potentially so unclear on the terms of any deal. If it is a permanent deal in addition to someone else, Mowbray mentioned about developing players before so to have him on the edges of things with another more ready made forward could be a good thing. If he comes in as our only attacking signing then it would leave us in basically the same position as we have gone into the window. And if that is a loan and our market of affordability is kids with no senior experience on loan at such an important time with the Armstrong money nestling in the pocket of the owners, that would be piss poor.

There has never been any serious suggestion that Nyambe has been set to leave, for me it always seemed to be fans putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 to come to the conclusion that Zeefuik is replacing him, but Mowbray has always denied any bids for Nyambe, has never given the impression that he expects him to leave and it was mooted before the window that we needed a second right wing back.

Based on your previous defence of the owners, out of interest what sort of level of investment would you expect in this window to continue in that same wavelength, all things considered? I am not one for excuses as to why player x and player y didnt join, I only judge on the players that do sign. Lots was made of Maja but even that signing would have been a loan deal, as confirmed. Everything done on the cheap.

What do you think will be different? That has basically been the team in the league for a while apart from the enforced change on the left.

Not ideal. Zeefuik is not fully vaccinated so could well miss games through isolation.

Team surely picks itself: Kaminski Lenihan Van Hecke Wharton Nyambe Travis Rothwell Edun Buckley Khadra Brereton Subs: Any keeper, Ayala, Rankin Costello, Dolan, Gallagher, Johnson, Davenport

Burnley definitely still have a chance if they bring a forward in. That being said, if they go down there also seems to be a decent sized clutch of players that I would think fall into a category of probably being keep-able, they may not attract PL attention but they will all be top players in the Championship. Even assuming Pope, Cornet, McNeil and Tarkowski go, the likes of Nathan Collins, Connor Roberts, Ben Mee, Charlie Taylor, Johann Gudmundsson, Matej Vydra, Josh Brownhill, Ashley Westwood, Jack Cork etc all give Burnley a solid core for a promotion push.

Budget is less than a couple of million pounds which is a fraction even of the sales made this season amidst a genuine promotion push. If anyone was in doubt that Venkys are not the problem then there for me is proof that they dont really care.

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