Out of interest, you was quite strong of the belief that Venkys would do anything to get us into the Premier League and are only hindered by FFP. On the flip side, you are also terrified of what they will do post Mowbray. Could you not argue that these 2 mindsets are at odds with one another? I still dont think that fear of the alternatives is a valid reason in isolation, especially when you are suggesting your own personal opinion on what you would do. If you think Mowbray is the man to get us into the Premier League, then fine, but if not, it has no logic to accept mediocrity rather than being willing to gamble, because quite frankly, what is the point?

Maddison getting his first goal.

Maybe but its just the way I would play, @Ewood Ace hits the nail on the head regarding a lack of assists from the full backs so any notion of overlapping is moot. Downing especially will possibly play narrower than many wingers so theres less risk of being outnumbered and he can get crosses in from that side. Dont think the inverted wingers is a successful tactic, indeed Mowbrays use of wide players has not been a strength during his time here.

Found Bradley Johnsons comment yesterday that hed "rather be part of the chasing pack rather than looking over his shoulder" to be very bizarre, talk about making the best out of a situation. Youd rather have extra points and be further up the bloody table!

Walton Nyambe Lenihan Adarabioyo Bell Chapman Travis Johnson Downing Brereton Armstrong Subs: Hilton, Williams, Bennett, Buckley, Davenport, Samuel, Graham Think I would go with that. Judgement call to partner Armstrong and if we at any point in danger of being over run in midfield, move Downing inside and play Armstrong and Chapman either side of Brereton.

Pretty central and he was perhaps too far over to his left. It ended in the corner only because he got a hand to it but not a strong enough one to keep it out. Not a massive howler but one I think he should be doing better with. The standard of keeping in the Championship is really poor. You look at even the top 6, the goalkeepers are Johnstone, Casilla, Rodak, Raya, Samba and Rudd. Only Samba is any good there really. Not a chance that Brighton have Walton as number 1 next year.

I made a point of saying that I appreciate that some of these goals are not particularly eye catching errors, but including the Sheffield Wednesday one, they are goals that a competent Championship goalkeeper should be very frustrated at his part in. Just because a mistake isnt eye catching doesnt mean that it doesnt warrant criticism because ultimately they still led to goals when really they shouldnt have done.

Yes I think he should be dissapointed that he didnt, the ball went in the middle of the goal. No I have listed goals which I think he was directly responsible for, but also said that I dont think hes amongst the very worst of a fairly sorry overall standard of goalkeepers in this league, nor do I think he is particularly good or worth signing. Hes conceded the 10th or 11th least goals in the League which is average/ok but of course also dependant on the defence in front of him. And?

Agreed, its not going to be an easy game necessarily, but its one against a team right near the bottom, who have scraped together a team, if youve got genuine top 6 hopes, and thats before you consider a 6 point, 3 place deficit, you go there expecting to win and frustrated if you dont. Its an eminently winnable game for a side with top 6 aspirations.

I think our fans are quite used to not having that intense pressure and mentality whereby any dropped points are rued. We just muddle along without ever actually really being in the mix, never in the top 6. On the face of things, going to Charlton away on the back of a home win might seem like a positive one, a point on the road, a long distance away day, but ultimately, it would be a week of 2 home games out of 3 in which we have lost more points than we have gained. Charlton are near the bottom, it wont be easy, stick in all of the usual platitudes, big crowd, long journey, fighting for their lives, but its a game that if you genuinely see yourself in the top 6 at the end of the season, without factoring in the deficit, its your bread and butter. If we have genuine aspirations of the play offs, we have to realise that not only do we need to be hitting top 6 form, we need to be considerably better because we need to make up a considerable 6 point deficit on 6th place, and not only that, leap frog 7th and 8th as well as obviously factoring any potentially brilliant runs from anyone below us. 6 points may not seem a lot but it certainly is over 14 games. It is very much a long shot and as such will not be achieved without a remarkable run from here on in.

Like I said, I appreciate that some goalkeepers such as Raya tend to make more dramatic mistakes or more eye catching ones but some of the ones that Walton has made are ones that a good Championship goalkeeepr would not expect to concede. He isnt an eye catching keeper and I do appreciate that it does feel calmer when he is in the net but we have conceded quite a few goals that I have been disappointed in him for conceding, just not ones like Raya at Hull or Casilla at Brentford bad. What about the one at Stoke, that has to be an error? Or the one v Sheffield Wednesday when he misjudged the cross, was beaten to it at the near post and they tapped it in at the far post? The penalty v Forest was a misjudgement because he didnt need to run out like he did, even Mowbray describe it as "our goalkeeper making a poor decision for the second goal." Ones like the Mitrovic one are not blatant and obvious errors but they are shots that good Championship goalkeepers would surely expect to save, likewise dealing with the one at Boro better rather than tapping it into the path of Coulson. I am not saying that he is the weakest point in our team, or a terrible goalkeeper, or using hyperbole like he is worse than Steele, but he has been responsible for quite a few goals, some blatant errors like the one at Preston, some less eye catching but ones a keeper worth his salt would be dealing with.

If them same people refuse to acknowledge that Dack, Armstrong, Adarabioyo and Downing are good signings then you have a point but I doubt it.

It isnt "one or two errors" or even "3 or 4." West Brom away first goal, although Cunningham more to blame for lack of communication, so perhaps let him off there. Huddersfield at home - lets poor shot trickle in from distance Preston away - horrendous misjudgement leads to start of comeback with first goal. Sheffield Wednesday at home - misjudges another cross that leads to a tap in Barnsley at home - spills leading to a tap in Stoke away - really poor, weak indecisive goalkeeping from a corner leads to a very unavoidable goal Forest away - allows a weak cross to sail in for the first Forest away - misjudgement leads to a penalty and goal Boro away - Spills cross/shot right into the path of their player to score Fulham home - allows Mitrovic to score with weak shot central in the goal The thing is that his errors in line with his style in general may be just as costly as an error from Raya but they are often far less headline grabbing. When Raya (or quite a few keepers) makes a mistake it is usually a blatant one.

I wouldnt like to see him played out of position!

Shot was right down the middle. He had perhaps gone too far across and was slow getting down to it. Hardly a major error but a good keeper I think saves that.

Made far more than that, just not calamatious ones. Was responsible for the last 2 goals conceded.

Disagree totally. Firstly it must be say that no communication and tweeting every second are the 2 extremes and surely a happy medium is in the middle but his attention seeking comes across as unprofessionalism. The one thing weve needed is competence under Venkys, not communication.

You've just randomly said that he wasnt interested just because he had a quiet game as if it is an indisputable fact. Bennett did nothing either, was he not trying and displaying a bad attitude? No. He just had an anonymous game. I don't dispute his wage demands but that doesnt mean that he has a terrible character, everyone is somewhat motivated by money and theres nothing wrong with trying to get a better contract for yourself. I havent seen any specific comments about his work rate or attitude though, if you have them to hand then please show them, else I will continue to be of the opinion that everything regarding his attitude being the reason that we didnt want him has snowballed from a baseless bassumption and is now being used to defend our lack of transfer activity. I wouldnt want a chairman like that no, just desperate for attention. 2.5m was more than we had. If you dont have anything further to add of value that is constructive that you havent already then I shan't be continuing the discussion, its infuriating with you never directly addressing the points at hand and indeed it cant be pleasant for other users to read these debates between the 2 of us!

I am not sure about that. The league to be fair is littered with poor keepers and he certainly isnt one of the very worst (Sluga and Camp possibly the main 2) plus he isnt the worst player in our team hence my insistence that goalkeeper wasnt a priority in January but there have been plenty of goals in which he carries the main portion of the blame. The last 2 goals that we have conceded have both been his fault, palming the ball straight out v Boro and Mitrovics shot was saveable too. Hes a totally different style to Raya, far more conservative. Rayas errors were usually blatant and obvious ones, whereas Walton does let in saveable shots more. He also pulls off less brilliant reflex saves although v Gestede it was a great save. Distribution, Raya kicked it out of play quite a lot, Walton doesnt but his kicking is often inaccurate in terms of things like floating towards a Dack or Armstrong when Gallagher or Graham are playing and Rayas distribution was sometimes an asset on the counter attack whereas Walton is poor and reluctant doing that which I think Mowbray recently touched on. I think the main bug bear has always been about selling a keeper and loaning one who is the same age to be fair though. I would want a permanent upgrade in the summer to Walton.

To be honest, he often doesnt bother!

But even his work rate, I doubt people have seen him play very much, me included, which is why I have never said he WILL be a good signing for us, I just think his record is impressive, I have seen him a couple of times and hes technically good and he gets goals and assists. I think you are massively over exaggerating what I and others are saying in terms of his ability. I dont think that "he is so good." Like I said, Peterborough were unwilling to budge on his release clause, 2.5m is quite a lot of money, and I have never said that teams at the top of the league should or will have been interested, and teams a bit further down may struggle to pay that sort of money. Its a similar amount to what we were reportedly quoted for Ronan Curtis whose record is far less impressive. In regards to our team in that position, I think it is our weakest area (along with maybe left back) and when we have strikers playing there, the benchmark for improvement is very low there and I feel that he may have been one potential option to do that and said that prior to him going to Hull. I am not going to start making wild exaggerations and assumptions now to justify not signing us by making out that we dont need him or shouldnt want him.

You havent answered my question. If there is suggestions that Maddison is a bad character, he doesnt work hard etc, these assumptions surely have some sort of foundation. At the moment, they seem like wild assumptions made to justify not signing him, even though it was specifically Maddison that was suggested, we just needed a couple of attacking players notably a wide man in general.

What word? What specific thing did their chairman say that indicated that he had a really bad attitude? He might well do, but it just seems to be unsubstantiated myth that has escalated from very little. The only thing was an insinuation that his choice of Hull over Charlton was partly down to money as well as location. Is that a particularly bad thing? Do you think most footballers or indeed people in general are not influenced by money? If I had the choice of 2 lower Championship sides that I had no affiliation to, money would be a big deciding factor in my choice too. Doesn't affect the effort that I would go on to put in. I dont think that Maddison was necessarily a specific individual that had to be signed, we just needed general reinforcements especially capable of playing in wide areas. But his track record albeit at a lower League is very, very impressive. He has struggled to get a move away from Peterborough because he had a clause of 2.5m in his contract and their chairman refused to budge, and that is quite a lot of money for a League 1 player especially considering that the best teams in the League possibly would look elsewhere rather than into League 1. There seems to be a lot of revisionism and desperation to justify not signing anyone, not even specifically him. Not only are you not assuming that he can make the step up (undoubtedly a big unknown at this point, I have never said otherwise) but now he also wouldnt be willing to put effort in either, and could be even less effective (I am not sure that its possible) than the likes of Bennett and Gallagher out wide, especially the latter who is being shunted there even though he is a striker, when neither offer any attacking threat at all, pretty important as a wide man. If their chairman has specifically said that he had a bad attitude then please feel free to show me the tweets, or alternatively wherever else you have seen that he has attitude problems, and it isnt just an assumption. He was publically delighted when he ended up staying in the summer, saying how good he was, so you have to appreciate that he always has a PR spin in mind anyway, but I am still in the dark as to why he has this reputation as this disinterested, unmotivated coaster that we did well to avoid.

There are a lot of assumptions about Maddisons personality which seem to have snowballed from very little. His former big mouthed chairman was very stubborn about his price for a while and 2.5m is quite a lot for a League 1 player, think thats the reason why he didnt move. Lots of wild speculation but aside from aforementioned attention seeking chairman suggesting that part of his move choice was financial (as if thats a unique and dreadful thing!) I have not seen anything else to suggest he has such a disruptive personality. All wild fabricated speculation unless i have missed something? Im glad he didnt do anything yesterday and dont think hes going to be the second coming or replace a player like Bowen but he would have almost certainly improved us in a weak area. Theres no need to go out of your way to try and exaggerate and speculate to defend our lack of signings by making him into this lay about with a terrible character constantly causing disruption!

He didnt do much but to say he didnt look interested is just going out of your way to try and justify the non signing. Lets not pretend that he wouldnt be an improvement on Bennett or a striker in a wide role. Not even necessarily saying that we should sign specifically him in the summer. If we start playing 433 it opens up the possibility of strikers regularly shunted out wide. 442 (with Downing and Rothwell wide from next week) just gives us the rigidity of 2 banks of 4, and it gives us the chance to play a second central striker in the absence of our number 10s and give Armstrong a freer role. Last night we had Elliott Bennett on the left hand side, lets not pretend that a player with the statistical output of goals and assists that Maddison has consistently had wouldnt improve on him. It remains to be seen whether he will make the step up and I dont think hes going to tear up the League but youd rather see him wide than Bennett, than Samuel, than Brereton, than Gallagher.