Incredible how Mahoney, Akpan, Lowe and Feeney have all been taken a chance on by Championship sides. That said, based on the gametime and success they are having, it suggests their current managers have seen what we have all seen.

If Southgate is picking solely on clubs, please explain the following: Joe Hart - One of a needlessly high number of keepers, has been in terrible form for years now, and dropped for the average Adrian, given a chance at the weekend and made a big error again. Shouldnt even be considered for the World Cup. Jake Livermore - Performances particularly poor even in a woeful team, dropped as a result and also recent shenanigans in Barcelona suggest hes not the best professional either. No idea why he Adam Lallana - barely played in months. Talented but not playing games. Danny Welbeck - ravaged by injury, and very poor goal record, granted he got a couple last night after the squad announcement (after a clear dive for the first) but not good enough. Chris Smalling - Not a big fan, but not sure how you can justify leaving out a regular starter for the 2nd highest team in the Premier League, yet can justify players like Joe Gomez being in. I appreciate that you can say hes not the best on the ball but you cant pick defenders solely on that. Not sure with the lack of depth that we can rule anyone out solely on lack of appearances, assuming they offer something extra, for example Lallana and Rose. Dont agree with Loftus-Cheek, Hart, Gomez or Welbeck being in the squad, Ashley Young in with a shout of left wing back over Bertrand on form, Lewis Cook maybe in there too, and Henderson. Youve only included 2 central midfielders that can play in a 2. One being injury prone and one being Eric Dier. Otherwise in the main its a pretty small pool to choose from but agree with most of the others. Harry Kane point is nonsense, look at his goal record in all competitions. Eric Dier is very lucky that England are bereft of depth in central midfield. Massively overrated, Id suggest even Hendersons a better bet.

Starting 12 you mean? Haha Squads been announced. A massive worry that Hart, Welbeck and in particular Livermore are all in, no idea what Southgates thinking is with any of them. Surprised Cahills not in, glad Keane isnt near the squad, think Lewis Cook and Alfie Mawson could be good picks though. I know its only a friendly but we are at the stage now where anyone being picked could go to Russia.

Wonder if that will end any chance of Chapman making the squad at he weekend.

I agree that managers may have preferred formations, but on the international stage as you infer you cant go out and buy players to suit your chosen system, you have to have the flexibility of playing whatever system that gets the best from your key players. As you say no square pegs and round holes.

For his club! And because youve since edited your post, I didnt even see that post initially. To clarify, youve said 2 things that dont make sense to me. "I decided my formation cos I want to 2 strikers up top and 3 at the back. Fit the players into the system." The reason I dont agree with this is because you pick a formation to get the best out of your best players, not the other way round. If you think our best 3 attackers are Rashford, Kane and Alli, then I disagree but your choice of formation is fair enough. It suggests that youve picked the players then a formation to best suit them, which is correct, HOWEVER it then renders the above statement meaningless, because it means that even you dont believe it. "No my stats proved that club stats means nothing in international terms" This is a crazy statement, what else do you go off if not club performances?

For his club? So his stupidly high goal ratio for Tottenham has NO bearing on his international selection? (Where to be fair hes yet to hit the same heights) I obviously would start him, just showing you the stupidity of totally discounting club stats, what else is there to base international selection on.

It wasnt a serious suggestion, it was based on the foolishness of saying things like "No my stats proved that club stats means nothing in international terms"

The reason that I've been saying that you need to pick a formation that best suits the players you have, is because you said "I decided my formation cos I want to 2 strikers up top and 3 at the back. Fit the players into the system." which is in my opinion is an incredibly flawed way of thinking, and the reason that weve had to fit all the players you mentioned into the wrong positions, your 2 arguments are totally contradictory to one another. Totally agree on Rashford, played the vast majority of his games from the left. Also agree on stats, presumably we will leave Kane out as this ridiculous goalscoring stats are meaningless.

I agree it was poor management. Do you understand my point though, that in those times, we picked a formation (4-4-2) and then squeezed players into that, rather than picking a formation to suit our best players? Which is similar to you, picking a formation first, then players second in that formation. Its the way of thinking that im disputing. If you had said, I think our best 3 attacking players are Rashford, Kane and Alli, and id play 3-4-1-2 to best suit them, I would disagree with the first bit but understand your way of thinking at least. But the way youve suggested picking a formation first is totally flawed, and the same way of thinking that caused us to fail in the past with better players. You didnt provide any stats. Besides, its not just stats, out of them 3, Sterling has had his best ever season, Alli has massively dipped and Rashford has been a bit part player, add the stats in and youve got a strong argument that Sterling is the most important of the 3. Youd be in a small minority wanting him near that plane, hes been a laughing stock for years.

How are stats meaningless? If anything your example backs up my point. You are suggesting that we pick a formation, then players to then fit that formation. Thats exactly what we did when we had those players. Our managers refused to deviate from the 4-4-2 formation we presumed to be the best way of playing, meaning that we didnt get the best out of our numerous top class central midfielders, we played our best one in Scholes wide, and didnt play a system to allow Gerrard and Lampard the license to do what they did for their clubs. We should have picked a more suitable position based on the personnel, not the other way round. As an aside, I see Joe Hart is back in the West Ham team doing what he does best. Useless.

But he hasnt, so its irrelevant. That second line makes absolutely no sense. You pick a formation to best suit your players, not the other way round.

But why, baring in mind how good hes been, whereas Rashford has rarely started and Alli has dipped so much from last season, especially with the stats I gave you? Feel like you are picking players to fit a formation, rather than a formation to best suit our key players.

You wouldnt start Sterling? Bar Kane, hes been by far and away the best English attacker this season, hes been phenomenal, stats prove it. 15 goals and 9 assists in 25 league games, 5 goals and an assist in 11 in other competitions, involved in a goal every 92 minutes. Rashfords been a sub for most of the season, hes involved in a goal every 107 minutes, did well today to be fair. Alli has been poor this season, miles off what he did last year, that said hes got 9 goals and 15 assists in 40, a goal involvement every 129 minutes. Sterlings been a key player for City this season and brilliant to watch. Im amazed that you wouldnt play him. (worked out through transfermarkt)

Would play 3-4-3, not 3-4-1-2, Sterling is one of the first names on the team sheet, as one of 2 either side of Kane. Welbeck is horrendous, Calvert Lewin and Abraham are unproven players who arent even playing for their clubs, id probably take just Kane, Rashford and Vardy to cover that 1 central position.

Thats fair enough, but when other people attach value to other competitions, and show dissapointment, even if its the u23s, responding by telling them to stop moaning is ignorant, rude and counterproductive of an internet messageboard.

So its not top priority, its the only priority to you? Like I said, whilst I agree that promotion is the main objective, you cant discount other competitions. How do you know the exact root of both problems And you said Mowbray does believe in him, now you are implying he doesnt?! You felt Graham wasnt giving 100%, if others feel Samuel isnt giving 100%, ie they have the same view as you did on someone else, you cant just tell them to stop moaning. That is hypocritical, shooting down someones opinion that is identical to yours, albeit to a different player.

Think thats a bit harsh, his goals at Rochdale, Bury (first) and Blackpool in particular in particular show he can finish with composure. That said, his penalty at Northampton, maybe less so!

I think hes a really poor, weak, ineffective centre forward. Hes found his home wide left however where he can be facing the goal more often and as a result is much more useful as a winger. Hes fairly quick, hes got a good leap running to the ball for someone playing wide, but he he isnt at all creative or skilful, in fact his whole game is incredibly limited apart from his knack of chipping in with a healthy number of goals for a wide men which is enough to make him a good option.I think hes better suited to play away from home, ive seen him at Ewood look hopeless and non existent when defences sit in, and ive see him at places like Blackpool and Bury away where he has been very effective in the added space. Do think hes got a part to play but the problem is, id put Armstrong, Chapman, Payne and Bennett ahead of him at the moment.

In terms of my viewpoint on priorities, I agree with you, league has to come first, BUT maybe not to the same extent as you, I dont see the cups as a total irrelevance, i was particularly annoyed by the Burnley loss, I want us to win even in the cups, but i appreciate like you that competitions have different priorities. That said, my post was particularly aimed at your point that "I cant believe how many people are complaining about this Lancashire cup game. Blimey its the Lancashire cup FFS." I wasnt that aggrieved personally BUT i respect the 2 points that people had put forward, mainly that it was harsh on the youngsters who got to that stage, and if the game was intended as a non contact fitness exercise, have it behind closed doors and dont take the chance away from the youngsters. People werent saying, oh the club is doomed now, they were commenting (many of whom who went to the game) on the game in the appropriate thread, and all you had to offer is to stop moaning. You did the same to me about Samuel, regardless of the fact that you said exactly the same thing about another player a couple of months ago, yet failed to appreciate the hypocrisy. "Stop moaning" is not a valid argument, and just suggests that you have nothing constructive to say, which im sure you do.

That bold bit is the kind of claptrap you always come out with when you realise your argument is weak. Stop moaning etc I personally dont really care about it too much, not a big bug bear of mine, I dont go down to watch the teams below the first team, but I appreciate that some people who attended/take a regular interest will have been disappointed by it, and that those youngsters that have got them to this stage will also feel a bit let down.

I believe that is not the case until your 32nd birthday. When that comes around, you are openly available to be "moaned at and not supported" (criticised on a messageboard to you and me) for a lack of work rate, as its the only way youll learn.

Didnt realise that you knew the players personalities so well and how best to motivate them based solely on their ages. If you cant see that its incredibly hypocritical to have a go at me for saying the same as you said earlier in the season about another player, regardless of who it is, then thats your issue. I hope Samuel steps up a gear and starts giving 100% (if im not wrong and he isnt already) and justifying his place in the squad. Not seen anything to suggest he will or can but hope he does.

I havent been happy with his offensive contributions, his work rate and other aspects of his game have been good but he has the ability to score goals and now he is doing. I was criticizing Antonsson when he was ineffectively playing down the middle, he wasnt playing out wide at the time. Surely you can see that you saying that Graham was lazy and playing rubbish is the exact same as me now saying the same about Samuel? Surely you understand the hypocrisy of inferring that I need to support him and not moan about him as a very weak argument? When you do something its kicking a player up the bum, when I do similar its moaning. He said "Roughly translated as 'he's lazy and he can't finish' which anybody who has seen him will tell you pretty much sums Samuel up. Poor signing and one of those players who will always be described as having the right attributes but will rarely utilise them." which I agree with.

You really dont listen do you. Bennett I said should contribute more considering the ability he showed in a league above, at a time when he hadnt scored for a year and barely got any assists. I never said I dont rate him. And I said I was really happy that he got 2 goals recently and hope he continues. Antonsson when I complained about him was playing up front, and looked awful. It was at the start of the season, and Dack was sitting on the bench in the main at the time. He then found a new home on the wing and started contributing with crucial goals. Something you dont seem to understand the importance of. People are going to moan if they feel like one of the players isnt giving 100%, and has underperformed for the club. Whilst typing this out, @blueboy3333 has shown Im not the only one to suggest they arent satisfied with Samuels application at the moment. Your assertion that he "needs support not people moaning at it" is both idiotic and hypocritical in equal measure. We are discussing a striker who hasnt scored in over 3 months on an internet messageboard that he almost certainly doesnt read. When in the ground the players get supported. And you constantly criticized Graham for months, for what you considered to be laziness and underachievement. Where was your "support not people moaning at it" attitude then? If you are going to critique me, at least understand what I actually said.