roversfan99

I really hope that Mowbray isnt prioritising the ability to play the ball out over the ability to keep the ball out of our net.

It really is silly season if people have the time and the motivation to find old articles about League 1 midfielders and modify the picture to make out as if we are signing them.

I think its a big ask for him to come into our side as a first team regular at his age and after experience 2 leagues down and plug a problem position replacing a player who had a positive impact. We need to bring in someone to fill the void that Adarabioyo left externally, someone who we can be confident can come straight in and really make a difference. Wharton by all means can be part of the squad and hopefully if he can show himself as up to it at this level, it would be a huge bonus as even if we get a good quality CB, the chances of him and Lenihan playing 46 games are unlikely and we lack depth there. https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-harry-souttar-4423158 Stoke want to loan out Souttar anyway it seems, which certainly isnt remotely appealing, although it is second hand info from Alan Nixon so expect either a permanent move somewhere this week or for him to be made Stoke captain!

I dont think Wharton can be expected to come into our starting 11 but assuming that we sign a first team centre back he wouldnt have to. If he could come back and be either 3rd or even 4th choice then that would be a big plus. Souttar has seemingly done well at League 1 level and got good reviews and I am assuming that he is more likely to be Championship ready. His inexperience like Pears means that although he might prove to become a good player at this level in time, they cant realistically be expected to come into a side supposedly pushing for the top 6 and have the consistency to play most or even every week and rectify our main fault. Kipre like Dunkley (and Marshall) will be cheaper due to Wigans situation.

To be fair, whilst I totally agree with what you say constant inconsistencies in Chaddys post, I think based on the game time they have had, none of them 3 are up to playing in the first team at the moment. Wharton could be a bit different after consistently excelling in League 2 but the difference between him and a new signing would be that Wharton wont be expected or depended on to come straight into our first team and improve us. I dont doubt that Souttar would likely be closer to our first team than all of them based on a seemingly impressive loan spell in League 1 but we dont need closer. We need someone to slot in and help us concede less goals. I think of all of the names mentioned, its the likes of Van Der Hoorn, Ayala, Kipre, Balogun, Dunkley and maybe at a push Chester (the latter 3 have already gone elsewhere) that are what we need. Players we know that could come into the side now and there wouldnt be a doubt that they can perform. 4 of them are/were frees and the other 2 will be sold cut price, they are off the top of my head. Get a Souttar aswell if budget allows after fixing all positions by all means.

Chey Dunkley has gone to Sheffield Wednesday. Another potential signing going elsewhere. Would have potentially been a shrewd addition. Also a rumour that Dominic Samuel failed a medical at Rotherham.

I appreciate his motive of wanting to play football. My question is, he is a player with minimal first team experience, well out of the picture (at the moment) at a club that conceded more than we did, one has only played in League 1 and briefly in Scotland, who is only 21, is he going to come in for Adarabioyo and make a significant difference in getting that goals against column down? Which is what we need. You presumably have seen him play more than me, I did see him make a mistake in the play offs, so maybe he is a ready made and unknown gem ready to step up, but forgive my scepticism. All being said, the rumour has come from a terrible source therefore there isnt any truth in it.

If Stoke have 6 centre backs already yet conceded 5 more goals and are happy to let Souttar leave, and at 21 years old, is he going to be of the calibre and experience to be able to get us into the play offs? Not a question I can answer but seems a little bit of a jump. That being said, its come from a really dodgy source so guessing that there is no truth in it.

Dont sense any urgency, thats for sure.

That account linked Travis to Coventry.

The Mowbray and honesty comment was tongue in cheek really, of course I know he would. Regarding Venkys, I am their biggest critic. But implying that they put specific demands on our manager spending money on attacking players just seems a little elaborated, and more invested and interested than they clearly are. Even if its via their stooge. Especially when defensive woes with Mowbray are a regular problem. Not sure about that, if theres any truth in it. A 21 year old whose experience has come from a handful of games in Scotland and a season and a half in League 1. Also notably he is apparently very slow. Think we need someone for the here and now.

The thing is though, Mowbray had claimed full responsibility on transfers so the conspiracy implies that he is an outright liar. It also requires Venkys to have put this rule in place which would require them to a vested interest in what is going on at the club which they clearly dont and a basic knowledge of football to specifically only fund certain positions. Mowbray has had similar problems at former clubs, he left Coventry after admitting failure to sign a centre back that was needed. His West Brom job became untenable because it was built on flimsy foundations. When Venkys came in their main early signing was Scott Dann who obviously was a defender. We had Grant Hanley coming through who obviously established himself at Championship level as a very competent CB and there was no need to replace him at that time. We also then signed Duffy once Dann went, again for a (smaller) fee who established himself alongside Hanley and that was one area which was fine. When we eventually sold them both, that was during a 2 year period (between being in embargo and relegation) in which every player of any value was sold off and there was no budget to replace them. When we were relegated Lenihan (academy graduate) and Mulgrew (one of the higher profile frees Coyle brought in) were more than capable in League 1 so again that wasnt an area that Mowbray concentrated on. I think it is more circumstantial and it seems farfetched that Venkys have either the knowledge or interest to specifically only spend in certain positions. You might call people pointing out the lack of defensive reinforcements as the "Mowbray out mob" but hes made these same mistakes at previous clubs. It seems like a case of removing any blame.

I saw this on twitter @JoeH which supposedly also considers the difficulty of saves made. That is subjective in reality so not sure on the worth of it. But the top 6 goalkeepers are of no surprise. And some really poor keepers near the bottom like Long, Camp, Grabara etc. But again, its possibly not anything to take too seriously. Sluga is quite high up but has made so many mistakes this season. Walton just below half way.

Considering that they played in different sides with different styles and different defences, I think only the top stat is useful really in that it measures saves to shots which is clear cut. But not particularly flattering to Pears. The aerial catches is a surprise on Waltons behalf, even though his ability at that is a overrated that is a really low figure. Obviously taken with a huge pinch of salt because it doesnt factor in things like mistakes leading to goals etc too, Waltons well into double figures which is the main issue. Thanks for the stats though, the shots saved one is useful. I remember watching Pears play v Forest and he made a really bad mistake from a corner to allow Grabban to equalise. I also remember him clattering Rankin Costello v us although that wasnt a mistake. Otherwise I dont really remember him when I have seen Boro play this season, last time I saw them v Millwall he had been dropped. The thing with Pears, not factoring in a very mixed bag of opinions from Boro fans. Is that hes barely played any senior football so I hope it is just paper talk. The plus would be that he would be ours and he may well turn into a very good keeper but he is so far from his peak. He is also small for a keeper.

What about Pears' goalkeeping stats compared to the rest of the divisions goalkeepers?

It is also interesting to note that when we really went more aggressively towards being a "possession team" post lockdown, the world of false 9s etc, we picked up 10 points in 9 games (1.11 points per game, compared to 53 in 37 prior, 1.43 points per game) and we kept 0 clean sheets, conceding 18 goals. (2 per game, compared to 1.22 per game prior to lockdown)

Even outside the play offs in the possession league ☹️

No, if that is the primary thing that Mowbray wants from his defenders then I dont accept it, I oppose it because we need to stop the goals going in! I know, I have summarised why I think the obsession over the possession "league" is flawed, both based on our current squad and also the numerous exceptions, with the teams you have quoted me all having squads far more suited to it than we do. Its the goals conceded that you want to look at. QPR seem to be a fifth exception to this supposed rule, all that possession undermined by conceding the third most goals in the league. Give me some "basic" defenders any day.

Which is totally baseless you mean. Its not like Rothwell has previously had really productive seasons before but has just entered a bit of a lull.

Also, Mowbray goes on about the possession v league position statistics but the thing is, the correlation is far from 100%. The specific teams right at the top, either through incredible superior coaching (Leeds) parachute money (Fulham and West Brom) or incredible scouting (Brentford) have the strengths to specifically play that way. We have central midfielders that can get in your face, we have 2 natural goalscorers and plenty of pace to press or counter dependant on the situation. Can Travis, Evans or Johnson dictate games every single week? No. Can Lenihan play passes through the lines? No. You look at some further examples, Barnsley are right near the top but are ultimately spineless at one end and lacking goalscorers at the other so they ended up lucky to be bailed out by Wigans off field problems. Cardiff finished 5th with the lowest possession. They have really good wide players with pace, and are really organised. They really take advantage of those strengths. Forest and Milwall are both right near the bottom of the possession stats but above us in the league. Im not saying that we should purposely aim for low possession but we shouldnt obsess over it. More important is the correlation between goals conceded and league position. The top 4 teams had the bottom 4 goals conceded. If we can actually fix our defence then we have 2 goalscorers and that makes us dangerous. Again @chaddyrovers youve dismissed Bauer as basic. Playing out from the back etc is not critical. If he could have come here and helped us knock 13 goals off our goals conceded column, then thats what matters. Lenihan cant pass the ball out from the back so we had better sell him too.

Marshall sorry. Got my Scottish keepers mixed up. No I dont. Because even if they were obtainable financially, which I dont know about. But Mowbray seems to not prioritise actually keeping the ball out of the net as the priority of signing defenders. As has been touched on, your "opinion" is essentially empathising with and second guessing Mowbray has really struggled to stop us from conceding too many goals so in this regard he is not the oracle as he is not getting it right. But he is massively overachieving to the point where barring something incredible, he could not progress any further, and is already massively overachieving in terms of resources. Why change if its working so well? I agree with what you say on Allardyces Bolton but I am not sure if it is possible to bring in a player like Anelka for under 10m or the likes of Okocha, Djorkaeff anymore. I do think whilst they dont have Okocha etc they are unfairly treated in terms of reputation. Brighton for all of their passing it out from the back finished where they finished under Hughton, so it didnt improve them, and they scored less goals than Burnley. Goals are the ultimate source of entertainment. Burnley also scored more than Sheffield United for all of the marvelling over their overlapping centre backs etc.

I think youve quoted the wrong person haha

Plus Burnley scored more goals than them so they cant be that boring! Remind me what the most entertaining part of football is...

A basic Championship defender? Again seemingly lacking any perspective in terms of considering defensive ability as secondary in being a defender! Bauer had a very good season. Preston improved how many goals they conceded with him as a sole signing there by 13. That is the sort of improvement we needed. He won the most aerial duels out of all defenders in the League. If basic means a massive improvement who does all the basics right and helps you concede far less goals, thats what we needed. As you say, Armstrong was a very good signing to us, but fairly irrelevant. Although I doubt Alex Neil told him he wouldnt play! We had more money and he had already been here.

What do you mean Dyche hasnt evolved Burnley ? He again got them a top 10 finish, what more do you want?! You are far too easily charmed by the medias perception of which teams plays attractive football and which dont. Results become of secondary importance to you. Burnley scored more goals than Brighton and had a far, far better season. Likewise, because Mowbray bangs on about possession football, you seem to be under the impression that our football is more aesthetically pleasing than Dyches, not factoring in the obvious gap in terms of Dyche competing with Premier League clubs. Its not. When we tried to focus solely on promotion we became less effective post lockdown and worse to watch. Potter didnt improve on Brightons first league position upon promotion under Hughton, thats the most important thing. For all the supposed fancy football they play, they scored less goals than Burnley but because they supposedly play nice football (I dont agree) there is a perception that they are better to watch than Burnley. Sadly if you want to see goal threat you would go to Turf Moor, for your sins, rather than the AMEX. Regarding your suggestions, id take Phillips. Him or McGregor for me are the stand outs from the names mentioned. Central midfield isnt a priority, GK, CB, LB and both wide areas are, not withstanding what Mowbray will do. Dickie I have never seen, and Clarke is decent but id prefer someone like Van Der Hoorn, Ayala or Dunkley on a permanent basis ideally. Playing out from the back isnt the priority. Getting that goals against column right down is.