[Archived] Drugs

[jim mk2]

2. Why does 'white and local' matter one jot?

Because of the sentence after in my post that you conveniently omitted you gormless twerp.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

if there is a catagory for "Most Insensitive & Tasteless" then I'd like to nominate this one.

I'm not quite sure what your problem is Colin. I described the Ipswich serial killings as dreadful and then merely repeated what's been widely reported in the media over the last few days - that the girls who were killed became prostitutes in order to feed their heroin addictions.

In my view heroin is a big problem in society and tends to lead to an increase in crime. Please feel free to argue differently Colin. Perhaps you could give us all a very sensitive and tasteful post in reply.

Have you had a personal experience with drugs which has made you particularly sensitive on this subject?

I hope that the link below from the BBC doesn't come across as being outrageously insensitive to you Colin.

"Street prostitutes all need drugs"

Does the fact he is Asian have any relevance except to reinforce your racist agenda ?

When a little while ago (on a different thread) I referred to one of the Moors Murderers as being "Glaswegian Ian Brady" was that a racist comment against Glaswegians or Scottish people ?

What relevance on various different threads does all your Aussie-bashing have - except to reinforce your own particular prejudice and loathing of Australians ? I bet you love Aborigines though....

[blue phil]

I'm not quite sure what your problem is Colin.

Have you had a personal experience with drugs which has made you particularly sensitive on this subject?

I hope that the link below from the BBC doesn't come across as being outrageously insensitive to you Colin.

Colin's problem is that he is the most intolerant person on this board in that he hates debating issues on which people disagree with his views . Much easier to swipe from the sidelines .

It's a pity because as an (ex) heroin user he might have something to add to the debate on this subject . It could be that his brain has been addled by the experience .

Which is a shame really .....

Does the fact he is Asian have any relevance except to reinforce your racist agenda ?

I sincerely hope the Ipswich maniac is caught soon and also sincerely hope he is white and local.

Does the word "Ipswich" have any relevance ? Any proof that he (if it is a he ) comes from Ipswich?

Got a problem with Ipswich , jimbo ? An agenda maybe ....?

[jim mk2]

.

Which is a shame really .....

Does the word "Ipswich" have any relevance ? Any proof that he (if it is a he ) comes from Ipswich?

Got a problem with Ipswich , jimbo ? An agenda maybe ....?

You make yourself look very silly sometimes. This is one of them.

[blue phil]

Just making a point , jimbo ....

[thenodrog]

Because of the sentence after in my post that you conveniently omitted you gormless twerp.

Sorry I missed it because you incorrectly made it appear as a seperate paragraph rather than a following sentence. Odd cos although the content of your posts are complete and unadulterated twaddle your grammar is usually good.

[colin]

Colin's problem is that he is the most intolerant person on this board

Brilliant, do a win a "Grooby?"

[blue phil]

Eh ....?

On the crack early tonight , Col ?

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Three drug users die this week from "bad heroin" in Hackney

The father of murdered prostitute Gemma Adams in Ipswich said yesterday: "She was offered drugs and it went from there. If she hadn't become addicted to heroin she wouldn't have had to resort to working on the streets. Drugs are at the heart of this tragedy."

Gemma came from a middle-class background. As a youngster she enjoyed horse-riding, Brownies and piano lessons. Her father said that Gemma later "fell in with a bad crowd" and became addicted to heroin, losing her job in an insurance company because of her chaotic drug use.

Despite the recent serial killings in Ipswich, one prostitute named "Lou" was interviewed on the ITV news last week to say that she will still continue to work on the streets to pay for her drugs. "I need the cash," she said. "If I wasn't doing this I would be shoplifting."

What a sad state she has got herself in. She's such a prisoner to drugs that she's prepared to run the risk of being murdered by a psychopath in order to get her fix of heroin.

The Ipswich killer is evil and needs to be caught. But those who condone drug abuse should recognise the devastating effects that drugs have had on the lives of many families.

[Timmy]

Three drug users die this week from "bad heroin" in Hackney

The father of murdered prostitute Gemma Adams in Ipswich said yesterday: "She was offered drugs and it went from there. If she hadn't become addicted to heroin she wouldn't have had to resort to working on the streets. Drugs are at the heart of this tragedy."

Gemma came from a middle-class background. As a youngster she enjoyed horse-riding, Brownies and piano lessons. Her father said that Gemma later "fell in with a bad crowd" and became addicted to heroin, losing her job in an insurance company because of her chaotic drug use.

Despite the recent serial killings in Ipswich, one prostitute named "Lou" was interviewed on the ITV news last week to say that she will still continue to work on the streets to pay for her drugs. "I need the cash," she said. "If I wasn't doing this I would be shoplifting."

What a sad state she has got herself in. She's such a prisoner to drugs that she's prepared to run the risk of being murdered by a psychopath in order to get her fix of heroin.

The Ipswich killer is evil and needs to be caught. But those who condone drug abuse should recognise the devastating effects that drugs have had on the lives of many families.

I don't think there’s many people around who condone drug abuse.

I for one don't as I have personal experience of the effect it can have, and how devastating it can be to not only the drug user but everybody connected to that person.

I recognise the stories of many of these tragic girls, who lived normal lives before getting in the wrong crowd, in which it was only a matter of time before a spiral of decline set in. Without starting to take drugs they would still be alive.

what many people may not recognise is the way hard drugs totally takeover a addicts life. From the time they wake to when they go to bed there total existence is taking up with drugs. Be it going to the doctors and chemist to get heroin substitute, getting money to buy drugs, buying drugs and seeking out dealers, probation etc etc. In this way it is impossible to hold down a "normal" social and economic existence. In which case they are trapped with only getting of the drugs for good a way out.

[cletus]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, maybe the threat of the rope would make serious big time drug dealers think twice about their actions......& the misery they cause?

[Eddie]

How often do the "serious big time drug dealers" get caught? The people who get caught are the man on the street who is just turning a nice profit as a middle man essentially, not the guys who are really making the industry run.

[ihateburnley]

How often do the "serious big time drug dealers" get caught? The people who get caught are the man on the street who is just turning a nice profit as a middle man essentially, not the guys who are really making the industry run.

Without the 'middle-men' though, there would be no drugs trade.

I personally would make all drugs legal, but increase the penalties on crimes such as rape, smuggling, theft and murder. Certainly death penalties for rape and murder.

The fact that drugs are illegal simply forces people to look for illegal means in which to obtain them. In legalising drugs we can tax them, and even offer them 'clean' to addicts. At the end of the day, drugs will always be around so we should make it safe and accessible for people to pump this sh!t into their veins, rather than force them to rob somebodys house or sell their body on the streets.

[Eddie]

That is true, but the dealer is easily replaced.

[blue phil]

How often do the "serious big time drug dealers" get caught? The people who get caught are the man on the street who is just turning a nice profit as a middle man essentially, not the guys who are really making the industry run.

Everybody involved in the business make it run - not just the top men .

A zero tolerance approach to all is the best option . Death penalty for the top dealers , harsh prison sentences for the other dealers , cold turkey for the addicts .

The greater the punishment the greater the deterrent .

[jim mk2]

Everybody involved in the business make it run - not just the top men .

A zero tolerance approach to all is the best option . Death penalty for the top dealers , harsh prison sentences for the other dealers , cold turkey for the addicts .

The greater the punishment the greater the deterrent .

Oh, gawd.

Happy Christmas.

[blue phil]

The fact that drugs are illegal simply forces people to look for illegal means in which to obtain them. In legalising drugs we can tax them, and even offer them 'clean' to addicts.

Nonsense . The only way that legalisation of drugs could be made to work would be for the government literally to give them away on demand . Can you really imagine the Ipswich prostitutes and other hopeless cases suddenly deciding to do an honest weeks work to pay for their drugs ? They'd still get involved in crime to pay for the stuff .

However , if you advocate the legalisation and free distribution of hard drugs , make no mistake you are giving the green light and actively encouraging the state in killing its own citizens . By paying taxes to subsidise the process you are complicit in that crime . You think we have a lot of addicts now ; get the government acting as dealers and you'd see a dmn sight more .

Personally I'd rather the government try and minimise the waste of human life by taking the hard line against the dealers and educating its youth to a respectable level .

[thenodrog]

In legalising drugs we can tax them, and even offer them 'clean' to addicts.

I can just imagine the court cases that such a move would spawn. 'My clients late son / husband / partner /was just an occasional user until the government gave him free heroin which he was not used to and led him to the hopeless addiction that finally killed him when the car that he was driving whilst under the influence of the aformentioned drug crashed at high speed into the back of the school bus at the level crossing and pushing it into the way of the passenger express train causing it to leave the tracks at 150mph'.......

Edited December 19, 2006 by thenodrog

[blue phil]

Oh, gawd.

Happy Christmas.

I think he's talking to you , Gordon ....

[ihateburnley]

Nonsense . The only way that legalisation of drugs could be made to work would be for the government literally to give them away on demand . Can you really imagine the Ipswich prostitutes and other hopeless cases suddenly deciding to do an honest weeks work to pay for their drugs ? They'd still get involved in crime to pay for the stuff .

However , if you advocate the legalisation and free distribution of hard drugs , make no mistake you are giving the green light and actively encouraging the state in killing its own citizens . By paying taxes to subsidise the process you are complicit in that crime . You think we have a lot of addicts now ; get the government acting as dealers and you'd see a dmn sight more .

Personally I'd rather the government try and minimise the waste of human life by taking the hard line against the dealers and educating its youth to a respectable level .

Nah. If people want to use drugs then sod em.

We still sell alcohol and tobacco products in hundreds of thousands of shops in the UK, and with the taxes we generate through that we can afford to run our country. I'm sure I've read that without cigarettes, there would be no NHS.

The fact of the matter is that people can get drugs EVERYWHERE. Go into any town centre pub on a friday night and you can get your hands on pills, cannabis and coke at least. A quick phone call and you can get your hands on the harder stuff. We must remember that legalising drugs won't neccessarily make drugs more accessible to your average man, but would rather benefit those who see the sense to stay clean.

It's like saying it would be perfect to live in a world where nobody smoked tobacco. Unfortunately our country would be in a REAL mess without the sale of these heavily taxed drugs.

We could even re-invest the money generated through taxed drugs into increased drug awareness and black-market drug raids.

It is the dealers that make the drug-world as nasty as it is. They are the ones that post 'free samples' through letterboxes in Manchester to get them addicted, and then are knocking on their doors six months later because they havent given back the five grand they owe the local drug gang. Drugs will ALWAYS exist, we just need to make it safer for those that choose to do these things to themselves.

[blue phil]

We still sell alcohol and tobacco products in hundreds of thousands of shops in the UK, and with the taxes we generate through that we can afford to run our country. I'm sure I've read that without cigarettes, there would be no NHS.

The fact of the matter is that people can get drugs EVERYWHERE. Go into any town centre pub on a friday night and you can get your hands on pills, cannabis and coke at least. A quick phone call and you can get your hands on the harder stuff. We must remember that legalising drugs won't neccessarily make drugs more accessible to your average man, but would rather benefit those who see the sense to stay clean.

It's like saying it would be perfect to live in a world where nobody smoked tobacco. Unfortunately our country would be in a REAL mess without the sale of these heavily taxed drugs.

We could even re-invest the money generated through taxed drugs into increased drug awareness and black-market drug raids.

I've still yet to hear how crack addicts and heroin addicts are going to find the money to pay for these newly "taxed" , government endorsed products other than crime . They suddenly going to get a job?

Fair enough for the softer drugs like cannabis - but these aren't the scource of the crime wave effecting society , (unless you take into account that they are a gateway to the harder stuff ; in which case it would still be utter stupidity for the government to sell them)

Like you say , drugs will always exist ...but the best way to minimise the problem is to make it unsafe for those who distribute them via harsher sentences . Not by replacing the dealers with government agencies .

What next ? Get the government involved in gun dealing to cut out the illegal gun runners ?

[Presty On Tour]

how drugs affect spiders

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=136101437706176785

[philipl]

The RSA report is very sensible on the subject of drugs. End this stupid prohibition now!

[blue phil]

The usual nonsense ; let's legalise ALL harmful substances just because some harmful substances (alcohol) are already legal .

Sounds great .......until you realise that the government would be colluding in selling and distributing substances that are far , far more dangerous and addictive than alcohol . Heroin , crack cocaine ...where if anywhere do we draw the line ?

Who pays for these hard , addictive drugs ? Are the zombified addicts going to start working for a living to pay for them ? They don't now ....so the obvious conclusion is that the state is simply going to take over the role of the drug dealers . Either that or they are going to literally give the drugs away to all who want them . Would that lower or raise the demand for the product ? Anyone in the real world would know it would be the latter .

Some might even be happy at that proposition , but even leaving aside the fact that the government is actively harming the health and well-being of its own citizens , what are the legal implications ? The government would leave itself wide open to lawsuits from those effected by the harmful substances that have reduced their sons and daughters to drug ravaged wrecks . Is this really the role of a government in the 21st century - to dope and destroy the lives of its most vulnerable citizens ? Some of us would prefer they tried to give meaning to the lives of such people .

Finally , the cost . Who is going to pay for it all ? Yes , policing costs and crime would go down - but on the down side we would have hundreds of thousands of people who would undoubtedly , IMO , go from cradle to grave without working and paying into the system . They would remain on addictive drugs all their adult lives (and presumably pre-adult lives also ) - with not even the threat of the legal sytem (such as it is) to incentivise them to better themselves .

Not a good idea for the tax payer who has to fund the whole system of allowing junkies to dream their lives away . Not a bad idea , however , if you live in tax exile on a Mediterranean island ....

[BuckyRover]

Why when legalisation is mentioned are crack and heroin the first ones that are mentioned?

They are the worst ones, most people who enjoy recreational drugs are definately not using heroin and crack.

What about all the rest of them, the party drugs, the ones that people use every weekend, have a very good time and then go back into work on Monday morning like everybody else?

Why are these illegal, it makes no sense?