[Archived] Brisa What Is The Point?

[Paul]

Please can somebody tell me what the point in BRISA is? As far as I can see the group is full of so called “do-gooders” who are trying to make themselves look important.

I'm disappointed to see you think that is our motivation. Knowing many of the people involved I'd say it's a long way from the truth, half the problem is getting people to step forward and make their talents public. The motivation is very simple, to try and make a difference and put something back into the club.

The point behind BRISA is to represent fans views to the club.

Do you really think that a group of fans can change the mindset of a multi-million pound company? If you do then I personally think that you are sadly mistaken.

Yes I believe BRISA can make a difference. If we are proved not to be able to do so we will at least have tried

Ok so you have had meetings with John Williams and Tom Finn, please can you tell me something positive which has come out of these meetings? As far as I can see nothing positive has happened. You need to get a grip on reality, it seems to me like JW and TF meet the group just to pacify you and to make you think that the club is listening.

I have yet to meet anyone who has spoken face to face with either TF or JW who has not been enthused by their attitude. If there is one thing BRISA can do it is to help fans understand the real passion and committment of the club's management. Certainly fans will have criticism of some of their actions and policies but there should be no doubting the committment to Blackburn Rovers. If JW and TF were simply out to pacify us I'm sure they would not spend many hours, often in the evenings, listening to BRISA and any other fan who takes the time to respond to their offers for personal meetings. It would be far simpler to fob people off.

Nothing has happened? I don't have time to go into detail but there are several points BRISA has put to the club which are now reality. None of are arrogant enough to believe BRISA was responsible. The club listen to many different groups and respond in an appropriate way. BRISA will hopefully have helped to underline views from other groups or individuals.

You keep going on about attendances and lack of atmosphere, why don’t you try and concentrate on the fans that are already there. You will not and cannot attract people to Ewood Park who simply do not want to go. As for the atmosphere it’s up to the fans that attend matches to create the atmosphere, so why don’t some people who have a lot to say on this messageboard get off there fat behinds and get down to Ewood Park, instead of writing from the comfort of their armchair.

Attendance and atmosphere are two very crucial issues for the club and the fans. simple as that. Everyone active in BRISA has got off their backsides, everyone of us is a regular fan, and many are ST holders

I’m expecting some negative feedback from what ive had to say considering all the abuse you have given to Vinjay. I thought that this was meant to be an independent messageboard where everybody could give their point of view, but unless you are one of the “do-gooders” you get shot down and we all know who they are, don’t we?

I'm not shooting you down just trying to respond, please also see the response below to EIT. As for Vinjay we have done everything we can to accomodate him. In return we asked he stop filling every thread with remarks about the Walker family. We, brfcs.com. offered to meet him face to face, he refused, our offer still stands. i'll be in Blues tonight, if Vinjay likes to e-mail admin@brfcs.com he can meet me for a beer.

Edited November 23, 2006 by Paul

[Paul]

BRISA did a much better job publicising their launch and lofty goals than in following through.

but running around garnering all the publicity about what BRISA was going to do without having the infrastructure in place to follow up on was an error.

BRISA spent months trying to put this sort of structure in place. Ultimately we felt there was a real danger we could spend years sitting in pubs discussing "organisation" and get nowhere. Personally I feel we underestimated the volume of "administration" and the difficulty of targetting our efforts. Yes too much was said, with the best of intentions, too soon.

but the reality is that an impression has been created that BRISA is all mouth and trousers. Such an impression, fair or not, has to be dealt with if BRISA is to engage the support of Rovers fans going forwards.

BRISA is not "all mouth and trousers" but I have sympathy with the view. This is being addressed, there is currently a real concentration on a single objective. I hope BRISA will be able to move forward from there.

Unfortunately, there are few 2nd chances to create a first impression.

True, but I think we can do it

Personally, I think the way forwards is for BRISA to get their heads down, forget any PR announcements, and focus 100% on achieving ANYTHING tangible that fans would see as a) being of significance, and would not have happened without BRISA.

This describes precisely what is currently happening. There have been recent comments BRISA has been quiet of late, so it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. We have our heads down, we are working to an objective we hope will reach fruitition in the next couple of months. One of my major concerns has been BRISA had too many woirds and not enough results, vigourous efforts are being made to address that very point.

I hope this post doesn't appear defensive, no one understood fully what we were taking on. We had hoped more people would be able to step forward and help with the work load once they new of our existence. With a few notable exceptions, this hasn't developed as anticipated. Frankly it's bloody hard work but we are going to keep trying. We are ready to accept any objective criticism, ready to admit our mistakes and trying to push things forward. Anyone who wants to help will be welcomed with open arms.

Has the BRISA membership been asked about their views on resurrecting the Fans Forum? No..I didn't think so.

Could the membership possibly be included a bit more in decision making?

I'm quoting this post because it highlights the real problem, not the FF bit but the inclusion in decision making. Initially BRISA tried desperately hard to include every view presented to us, we have mountains of mail and e-mail. Hours wre spent discussing every topic. Why? Because BRISA is determined to include everyone and every view.

This was a mistake. Yes, we must include one and all but we have to be better at focusing on the issues and areas where we can make a difference. Frankly trying to include hundreds of fans in the decision making process doesn't work. One ends up spending all one's time consulting but doing little.

Edited November 23, 2006 by Paul

[thenodrog]

This was a mistake. Yes, we must include one and all but we have to be better at focusing on the issues and areas where we can make a difference. Frankly trying to include hundreds of fans in the decision making process doesn't work. One ends up spending all one's time consulting but doing little.

Indeed nothing ever works well when run by committee.

[joey_big_nose]

Indeed nothing ever works well when run by committee.

Very true. Once BRISA is up and running elections could be held for a small group of three or four, of which one is the clear leader (president or somesuch), to direct policy every season. It would be a good way of keeping focussed while including the whole membership.

[colin]

Best wishes to you at BRISA.

I haven't the time nor the opportunity to join you.

I do wonder about the people who criticise you, especially the ones who do bugger all anyway.

I suppose that's what you get for trying to make a bit of a difference.

Keep going folks.

[thenodrog]

I haven't the time nor the opportunity to join you.

You most certainly have Colin! It's just difficult to imagine the others agreeing to BRISA meeting's being scheduled for between Midnight and 2.00am.

[SouthAussieRover]

You most certainly have Colin! It's just difficult to imagine the others agreeing to BRISA meeting's being scheduled for between Midnight and 2.00am.

[Paul]

[colin]

You most certainly have Colin! It's just difficult to imagine the others agreeing to BRISA meeting's being scheduled for between Midnight and 2.00am.

Gosh! or indeed in South Manchester.

Have you got the time and opportunity Theno?

Edited November 24, 2006 by colin

[blue phil]

Where's your famed sense of humour , Col ..?

[RevidgeBlue]

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QUOTE(Ste B @ Nov 21 2006, 12:49 ) 461570[/snapback]

Part of the BRISA remit is to provide a way of providing dialog between the fans and the club. The FF did that, but suffered from a lack of being open with what was discussed. BRISA has to be careful not to fall into that trap, as imho its suffering from keeping too much behind closed doors.

Let's be fair about this if the Fans Forum has failed in recent months it's for no other reason than the family problems suffered by the Forum chairman. As for BRISA I went along on Monday expecting there to be a huge turnout and there were I think six people other than myself present. So it could fairly be said that both organisations are struggling at the moment.

As for the motives of the people concerned in both organisations I don't think you can get beyond the fact it's a load of fans giving up their free time to try and help the club. People are doing it for the right reasons in the first instance but they also need more help from everyone else in terms of involvement.

[Blakey]

Nothing has happened? I don't have time to go into detail but there are several points BRISA has put to the club which are now reality.

Please could you tell me what is now reality?? If something positve has happened and that things have now become "reality" I would imagine that me and the rest of the fans would have known about it by now and not just you and rest of the so called "BRISA" commitee, is it all a big secret? Are you sure that "BRISA" isn't just a one man campaign spearheaded by you and that your motivation is to achieve what you want to achieve and not the rest of the BRISA commitee??

I personally believe that the club is very well run and that there is no need for the "Fans Forum" or "BRISA".

[den]

Please could you tell me what is now reality?? If something positve has happened and that things have now become "reality" I would imagine that me and the rest of the fans would have known about it by now and not just you and rest of the so called "BRISA" commitee, is it all a big secret? Are you sure that "BRISA" isn't just a one man campaign spearheaded by you and that your motivation is to achieve what you want to achieve and not the rest of the BRISA commitee??

I personally believe that the club is very well run and that there is no need for the "Fans Forum" or "BRISA".

Strange post. So why are you so interested in what's happening?

[stuwilky]

Are you sure that "BRISA" isn't just a one man campaign spearheaded by you and that your motivation is to achieve what you want to achieve and not the rest of the BRISA commitee??

I personally believe that the club is very well run and that there is no need for the "Fans Forum" or "BRISA".

I think that the public minutes would prove that isnt the case. There are at least 20 people I can think of off the top of my head who have had some involved in getting BRISA off the ground, some of us have fallen by the wayside, and others have become involved along the way.

[Blakey]

Strange post. So why are you so interested in what's happening?

Good question! I'm just trying to get across the point that there is nothing wrong with the club the way it is. BRISA have said that things are now "reality" are you not interested in finding out what is now "reality"? I know I certainly am.

[joey_big_nose]

Good question! I'm just trying to get across the point that there is nothing wrong with the club the way it is. BRISA have said that things are now "reality" are you not interested in finding out what is now "reality"? I know I certainly am.

I am a bit confused. BRISA is not an attack on the club. It is an organiztion of fans who try to work with the club, and represent their interest to the club. It is actually quite a useful tool for JW and the like to work out what the club can do to attract fans.

You seem to suggest it is harmful in some way to the clubs interests, but I cannot see how that is the case.

[thenodrog]

Now I might be completely wrong here but I'd wager if a straw poll was carried out next home match 90% of BRFC supporters would not have heard of BRISA nor know what the acronym stands for. Maybe more momentum would be gained if a monthly newsletter / fanzine was published and sold on matchdays to inform the ordinary fan of BRISA's progress and offer inside knowledge of the club etc.

btw This is meant as a comment and not as a criticism as anybody who unselfishly gives up their spare time for such an unprofitable cause only deserves praise in my book.

[FourLaneBlue]

Maybe more momentum would be gained if a monthly newsletter / fanzine was published and sold on matchdays to inform the ordinary fan of BRISA's progress and offer inside knowledge of the club etc.

Agree. Any kind of organisation that relies on the public needs to keep them informed. Even if it is only a flimsy handout it will do. Let those attending know and keep reminding them.

Edited December 5, 2006 by FourLaneBlue

[Alan75]

Agree. Any kind of organisation that relies on the public needs to keep them informed. Even if it is only a flimsy handout it will do. Let those attending know and keep reminding them.

This is something that has been on my mind for a while, and is something that we have discussed be it briefly at meetings. One thought was to leave some newsletters on the shelves on the concourse.

[Paul]

Are you sure that "BRISA" isn't just a one man campaign spearheaded by you and that your motivation is to achieve what you want to achieve and not the rest of the BRISA commitee??

Yes I am sure. There is nothing I personally want to achieve, I'm actually a very happy Rover, but I do believe there is a need for dialogue between the fans and the club. Interestingly JW and TF agree. When I have time I'll post you some examples of things BRISA suggested which are now reality. Again BRISA is not claiming the credit for this as the Fans Forum and others have all had an input. For the time being I suggest you read this in detail and think about it http://www.brisa.org.uk/attendance.pdf. Take a look at page 27 point 4.4.3 and think about the offer to ST holders to buy a bundle of two tickets for the UEFA games. I don't believe BRISA was responsible for this happening but in January 2006 we were suggesting to the club it should be considered.

There are around 25-30 people who will back up the following statement. When I first got involved my offer was to help BRISA with the secretarial side. I made it very clear I wanted no public involvement. Over the months it has been necessary for someone to step forward and with no one else able to do so I'm stuck with it. Anyone who wants to chair this is most welcome but do not underestimate the work involved. I'm talking long hours of building databases, mailiong lists, stuffing envelopes, writing minutes etc. Anyone willing to come and do this or just help out will be welcomed with open arms. It's my intention to step aside as soon as is possible but I'm not going to watch BRISA or the FF disappear over night. As an individual if I say I'm going to do something it will happen, I allied myself to BRISA and I won't see it fail without giving my utmost to see it succeed.

There will come a time when an active "fans movement" will be vital. It will be of no earthly use, if the club suddenly faces a crisis, for a group of activists with no history start mouthing off. We are trying to build a serious organisation that talks to the club regularly, one that will be taken seriously in a time of crisis. Without a history of involvement no such organisation can or should be taken seriously.

I personally believe that the club is very well run and that there is no need for the "Fans Forum" or "BRISA".

The first half of the statement i would entirely agree with, the second half I would dispute.

We are doing our best, personally I fully agree with the commenst regarding communication. This will be resolved but right now is not the moment. The moment will arrive soon, but not just yet. This is not an attempt to be secretive but it is to avoid making a public statement that BRISA cannot currently back up. When we can back up our future plans they will be made public. Right now we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Now I might be completely wrong here but I'd wager if a straw poll was carried out next home match 90% of BRFC supporters would not have heard of BRISA nor know what the acronym stands for. Maybe more momentum would be gained if a monthly newsletter / fanzine was published and sold on matchdays to inform the ordinary fan of BRISA's progress and offer inside knowledge of the club etc.

btw This is meant as a comment and not as a criticism as anybody who unselfishly gives up their spare time for such an unprofitable cause only deserves praise in my book.

Absolutely spot on. Hits the nail on the head and it is what we want to happen.

[Paul]

Blakey I think I've just found one thing that is reality and I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere else except by BRISA. See page 30 point 4.5.5 of the Attendance document and I quote:

Better Bar Facilities:

Utilising some form of advance ordering system. The supporter could fill in a form stating what food/drinks they want, this could be handed to the kiosk in exchange for a ticket, and the supporter could simply hand in their ticket at half-time and receive their order

Now I don't drink at football matches but from what has been shown on the big screen this is precisely what the club introduced this season. I can't be certain as I haven't tried to use it. OK it's not a big deal but I understand from others it works well..........until the Fulham game at least!!

[SouthAussieRover]

Blakey I think I've just found one thing that is reality and I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere else except by BRISA. See page 30 point 4.5.5 of the Attendance document and I quote:

Better Bar Facilities:

Utilising some form of advance ordering system. The supporter could fill in a form stating what food/drinks they want, this could be handed to the kiosk in exchange for a ticket, and the supporter could simply hand in their ticket at half-time and receive their order

Now I don't drink at football matches but from what has been shown on the big screen this is precisely what the club introduced this season. I can't be certain as I haven't tried to use it. OK it's not a big deal but I understand from others it works well..........until the Fulham game at least!!

That's fascinating.

BRISA has made it easier for the pissheads to get their booze.

I'm not quite sure I'll be parting with any money re membership in the near future.

[Alan75]

That's fascinating.

BRISA has made it easier for the pissheads to get their booze.

I'm not quite sure I'll be parting with any money re membership in the near future.

Ive yet to see a p... h.... get served at ewood

[OscarRaven]

pissheads

A bit harsh! and no doubt your post count and resultant 'regular' status means special dispensation from the posting rules.

Initiatives to improve service are welcome by me, I guess you dont walk the concourses so its easy to make ill-informed snap judgements on things you have no insight into.

Edited December 5, 2006 by OscarRaven

[SouthAussieRover]

A bit harsh! Initiatives to improve service are welcome by me, but then I actually go to Ewood Park.

Fair enough.

I try to pop down every other game.

Are you a member of BRISA by the way?

BTW try not to edit after you've been quoted.It contravenes the posting guidelines.

Edited December 5, 2006 by SouthAussieRover