[Archived] Bush To Send American Troops To Georgia

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

With an uneasy ceasefire just about holding, good 'owd George Bush has had the brainstorm to send American troops to Georgia on a 'Humanitarian aid mission'.Landing in American military planes the troops will give 'aid' while the boys and girls in the Whitehouse openly back the Georgian government while calling Russia every name under the sun.To top it off the American Navy will also be involved......you couldn't dream this one up folks!

Talk about raising the stakes here.One stray missile downs a Yank plane or one stray bullet and...........................

GO GET 'EM PUDDLED GEORGE!

[RibbleValleyRover]

I thought there was supposed to be a ceasefire? and yet the Russians are digging in near Gori.

[Flopsy]

to be fair, the Americans appear to be supporting the right side for once.

Just be glad that Georgia hadnt joined Nato fully, or we'd be at war with Russia right now.

Cheery thought for you as you go to bed.

[American]

Ceasefire, my pearly White arse.

[T4E]

Last act of a "War President"?

[Majiball]

Well you can't argue with the pope!!

Pope's view on Bush

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I thought he said they were not putting troops on the ground, but sending aid.

But lets not let that get in the way of bashing America.

[Majiball]

If america go to war, do we go to war as well??

Do we have any sort of treaty with them over things like this??

[Flopsy]

Nato Clause 5 i think. Although as its an attack on a non nato country we can sit back and let America go it alone. Still we really dont want to get into a shooting match with a country as inheritantly unstable and unpredictable as Russia is at the moment

[T4E]

Well you can't argue with the pope!!

I bloody well can!

[blue phil]

to be fair, the Americans appear to be supporting the right side for once.

You may not be surprised to hear that I disagree with you , Flops ....

Russia has the right to protect its own citizens (even if technically they're across their border ) - the Georgians were the first to send in the tanks against people who plainly don't want to belong to them .

Yes ; Russia has done more than was strictly necessary but there are wider issues at stake . The Russkies don't want the EU bureaucratic empire on its doorstep . Worse still they don't want NATO and US bases on their doorstep . Who can blame them when you look at the chaos of US foreign policy in recent years ?

All I can say is thank God that Georgia isn't already in NATO . It's sad that two Christian neighbours are at conflict but it's well within Russia's sphere of influence .......and nowhere near ours . Georgia must come to an accommodation with both Russia , the EU and the US and stay as neutral as it is possible to be .

[Eddie]

Phil, think back to the start of the second world war...

[Flopsy]

Dont you mean the first?

And Phil, I dont quite understand why we should give a toss whether they're christian or scientologists, Russia lost is moral right to support separist peoples with the genocide they carried out in Chechnya

[Eddie]

The first works as well, but Phil was saying that Russia had the right to go in to protect "Russians". Sounds a lot like Europe allowing Germany to go into the Sudetenland as it was mostly German. Give them an inch...

[American]

Phil, going by your logic, there were Americans living in Iraq, so we should be justified for going in there to protect them from Saddam.

[philipl]

There are Ossetians living either side of the border just like there are Kurds living either side of the Turkish/Iraq borde or, nearer to home, Basques living either side of the Spanish/French border.

I really don't think you would be terribly popular if you told a French Basque he was Spanish or a Spanish Basque he was French.

Still lets leave Blue Phil to his make believe world.

As for US sending troops to Georgia for humanitarian aid, I have seen three quotes from the US Administration that they are and two that they are not.

Meanwhilst the ill-disciplined conscripted yobs from the back streets of Russia loot and burn for the motherland in Stalin's birthplace.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Poland have just agreed to have American missiles on their soil,are the West backing Russia into a corner here or what?

Why this almighty rush for a cold war again with all its horrible possible scenarios.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Poland have just agreed to have American missiles on their soil,are the West backing Russia into a corner here or what?

Why this almighty rush for a cold war again with all its horrible possible scenarios.

Funnily enough a Bi-polar world is probably more stable than the current situation

[blue phil]

Still lets leave Blue Phil to his make believe world.

Says the clown who fully supported Bush's venture into Iraq ....

....before realising he'd been duped .

The rest of us knew right from the start .

As for the more sensible posters who questioned my stance , let me state that I did make it clear that the Russians were perhaps going beyond their remit .

To me it's a question of self determination for the Ossetians . If they prefer Russian rule to that of the Georgians then their wish has to be taken into account . It is no good just saying that the status quo must prevail - state boundaries have been for eons determined by the gains of war alone with scant regard to the principles of self determination.

I won't state again the wider issues - only to emphasise that it is not all black and white . I can well understand Russians' desire not to have NATO on its doorstep .

Eddie mentioned earlier the case of the Sudetan Germans . He might well have mentioned those in the Saarland or even the Rhineland prior to WW11 .

The fact of the matter is that Hitler was perfectly justified in attempting to unite all Germans who wished to be part of the Reich .These areas were once a part of Germany before the Ist war and the notorious Versaille peace pact squandered the peace .

What came afterwards was clearly NOT a case of self determination . Therefore if the Russians should annex Georgia completely or move onto Poland I will be the first to object to appeasement measures (although there's little we can effectively do) .

American - I hardly think your example of your fellows in Iraq comes anywhere near the principle I argue for . They could probably have all left on one airplane ......

Flopsy - You have a point about Chechnya . Personally I have no sympathy at all for the plight of Islamic militants living in an Islamic state . As with all such states I argue for self determination and as little contact with the civilised world as is humanly possible . But that's another topic ...

[Flopsy]

but they werent islamic militants until Russia tried to raise their country to the ground, we'll have to agree to disagree, but usually the militants are a small minority until the occupying power decides to crack down. If I remember rightly, Chechnya tried to become independent, Russia decided that wasnt going to happen and then massacred Civilians indiscriminately, leading to a rise in militanism and a bunch of jihadists turning up to help.

Did you see that Turkish camera crew get shot up? The god of Journalists was looking out for them today

[blue phil]

We're not disagreeing . I would like Chechnya and all Islamic states to be as far removed from the civilised world as possible . Iraq , Chechnya ? .....not worth the trouble of losing Russian or American lives over . Build a new iron curtain , trade as little as is absolutely necessary - and leave it at that .

As for the Turkish journo's ? Lucky , lucky boys . Just as well there was someone else filming ...

[rover6]

The reality of the West's energy needs means that is impossible. And besides, it would be a callous stance to ignore the plight of the suppressed in other states - just because you disagree with their religious orientation. Obviously, that doesn't mean warring or proxy warring - but at least trying to use political and trade leverage to urge humanism by the state.

And Blue Phil, your sympathies with Russia in this war ignores several factors. You are ignoring the insidious fermentation of Abkhazian and South Ossetian secessionism that Russia has been engaged in. They have been EXPLOITING these regions' nationalist feelings for Russian gain. If I am not mistaken - the people leading the breakaway charge of South Ossetia are Russians - yep, amongst them, ex-FSB men! Hardly a pro-Russian regime but, quite simply, Russian. Commentators are calling these people the South Ossetian branch of the Kremlin Siloviki (men associated with the Russian state security service) who have hi-jacked regional nationalism for self-gain. Apparently, huge posters of a grinning Putin have been hanging in Tshkinvali for many years on the orders of the rulers.

Secondly, Russian has been taunting and trying to provoke Georgia. There was the business of shutting of gas supplies a while back. More recently, there have been intrusions into Georgian airspace by Russian planes. The Russians are accused of arming and supporting South Ossetian separatists via supposed peacekeeper troops. This typically cunning needling of Georgia was designed to either make them submit, or more realistically, cause them to react impetuously, as they did.

The business of giving South Ossetians Russian passports also smacks of devious warmongering. What right did Russia have to distribute Russian passports to the South Ossetians? Or more pertinent, why did Russia do it? To strengthen their strategic position in the event of war with Georgia and to inveigle the support of the South Ossetians.

I accept that this war and the whole situation is not simple and there is no obvious candidate for "innocent" party. The Georgian leadership probably deserve blame for invading South Ossetia and not seeking a less incendiary path.

However, in my opinion, the evil Russian regime are the primarily responsible for the violence in their devious provocation and manouevring to sate their avaricious pride and greed. Every humanist, honourable, reasonable justification they give for supporting South Ossetia is reduced to absolute hypocritical pap when you consider how they behave in other situations.

Medvedev said that Russia have a right to protect the dignity of Russian citizens. Er...dignity in brutality in Chechnya? Dignity in ruthlessly killing those children in Beslan to make an example of the terrorists? Dignity in allowing the perennial heinous deaths of new recruits in the Army? Dignity in beating and imprisoning political opponents? Dignity in allowing the assassination of Anna Politkovskaya and then sending the deputy culture minister to her funeral as the only state representative, as a clear insult to her memory?

[AussieinUk]

The reality of the West's energy needs means that is impossible. Currently stands at 27%

And Blue Phil, your sympathies with Russia in this war ignores several factors. You are ignoring the insidious fermentation of Abkhazian and South Ossetian secessionism that Russia has been engaged in. They have been EXPLOITING these regions' nationalist feelings for Russian gain. Not true, its not exploitaion- Russia has given citiznenship to many people of both breakaway regions. Whats to exploit - Georgia has the gas reserves, not Ossetia or Abkazia

If I am not mistaken - the people leading the breakaway charge of South Ossetia are Russians - yep, amongst them, ex-FSB men! No you're not mistaken, but I serious doubt they are ex-FSB!

Secondly, Russian has been taunting and trying to provoke Georgia. The quick response was based down to the fact that, the Russian 58th Army division was training in the area as part of the CAUCUS2008 training exercise's

There was the business of shutting of gas supplies a while back. More recently, there have been intrusions into Georgian airspace by Russian planes. Rubbish - You have made that up!! - Please provide a link to verify your claim?

The Russians are accused of arming South Ossetian separatists. Please dont forget that there are russian irregulars in the area as well.

This typically cunning needling of Georgia was designed to either make them submit, or more realistically, cause them to react impetuously, as they did. That is your opinion only.... Others could say this is a double bluff to allow Georgia into NATO

and now you have edited your post!! and again!

Everyone has opinion R6 and I dont disagree with that, but you really have no clue on this event and your edited post illstrates this!

[SouthAussieRover]

and now you have edited your post!! and again!

Everyone has opinion R6 and I dont disagree with that, but you really have no clue on this event and your edited post illstrates this!

Actually AussieinUK I guess it depends on what reports you read.

For example,one of the reports I read today suggested Russia handed out passports and citizenship to any South Ossetian etc who asked for it.

[AussieinUk]

Actually AussieinUK I guess it depends on what reports you read.

For example,one of the reports I read today suggested Russia handed out passports and citizenship to any South Ossetian etc who asked for it.

Hi Sar,

You are correct on reported information, but mine is not from western media and is 9 hours ahead! Btw - Half the information R6 reported was rubbish.. and then he/she/it changed it.. like passports was never mentioned at all in the original post - funny that!

EDIT: May I ask, how does asking for a Russian passport (from anyone in Ossetia and Abkahiza) change the complextion of the outbreak of war and the reasoning behind it? and bear in mind that Abkazians and Ossetians want independance from both?... think abut it.