[Archived] Debate of the Week: Would English football be stronger and/or better if the top few teams left the PL for a European Super League?

[Glenn]

Time to try debate of the week again. Each week we'll take a meaty and contentious subject and let seasoned debaters thrash it out. This is no place for one line answers or poor English skills, it's about quality debate, if you can't manage at least a couple of paragraphs of more or less grammatically correct English IN EVERY POST then you're out. Resort to personal insults, going off topic or sniping, then you're out. Remember, this is debate, not argument.

Would English football be stronger and/or better if the top few teams left the PL for a European Super League

If you wish to make a comment on the debate, rather than actually debate, please use this thread ==> http://www.brfcs.co....s-and-feedback/

Update 1: This isn't an edict for the entire site. It's a little game/experiment in a single thread.

Update 2: So many of you are struggling with "a couple of paragraphs" I see.

[roversfan99]

I definitely would not agree with the principle of a proposal to move certain teams from the Premier League in to a super League.

I understand the argument that the removal of said teams would make it realistic and achievable to perhaps put together a title challenge, and that the top league would be more evenly distributed in terms of quality.

However one of the reasons that smaller clubs are so excited to reach the pinnacle of Premier League football is to play at stadiums like Anfield and Old Trafford against world class players. Also nothing beats the buzz of being an underdog and upsetting the applecart by beating one of the big sides.

We still remember beating Man United 4-3 and Chelsea 1-0 from around 5 years ago,but we don't remember wins against Wigan, Sunderland and Birmingham. Although I do look forward to watching any match featuring Rovers, hosting the big clubs brings that special buzz and excitement that needs to be retained.

However I do feel we should look at alternative ways to level the playing field, such as salary caps.

[Lancs Rover]

Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Even if there was promotion and relegation. How would you determine who should be in it? The previous season's league final league positions? The City\Tottenham tussle over the last couple of years would be difficult to quantify. Did Tottenham's great season in the Champions League, which I as a neutral enjoyed, stretch them to the point where they couldn't compete ultimately in the league? Should City be included on the basis of their projected wealth or excluded because of it? And Chelsea? A flash in the pan in terms of being a top team. What will happen when that particular bubble bursts, as it shall one day?

Exclusivity would kill the interest in professional football for me as a Rovers fan. Decades - in fact, more than a century - of tradition and rivalry would be rendered irrelevant and forever parochial.

Whilst I don't feel sentimental towards the 'big' teams, they are part of the English scene, that make it English. Our ninety-two, like our tradition of away support throughout the whole League, hold no comparison in Europe. Isn't our 'Championship' the third or fourth best supported in Europe? Even some of the best abroad - in once-might Italy, for example - can't get much over twenty thousand for home games.

No-one can transport parts of the English football landscape and expect them to be attractive enough to fill the massive stadia in Turin or Milan. Premier League football can be boring enough already. Wouldn't fancy watching our finest outplaying the top teams from any of the over-technical European leagues instead. About as compelling as the group stages of the Champions League, every week.

[BangkokRover]

Well all ready have a European Super League its called the Champions League.

[thenodrog]

Well all ready have a European Super League its called the Champions League.

And a mighty big turn off it is too. I can't be bothered watching any of it to be brutally honest. The days of a proper spectator friendly knock out European Cup are long gone as the money men attempt to squeeze every last penny from the game. Pity cos that was proper football, real football that only Champions could play in and not the big 4 out of every major footballing nation with a few chucked in as cannon fodder from the lesser leagues. Excitement and passion is a thing of the past.

The rich have got richer to the effect that they are now almost out of sight. The Premuier League in this country now is just a relegation battle for 80% of the competing clubs. No hope to win the thing, little hope to win a Cup with the only ambition for those clubs is to be safe by March and a finish in the top half.

The Champions League is just one big turn off and the only cure is to do exactly that.... turn it off and don't watch it. Send the big boys off to their European Utopia (I doubt they'll go tbh... they are greedy but not thick), get on with life in a real league, with a hope of success which we don't have now and switch off the bloody telly when the CL is on. Be interesting to see the reaction of the big boys, their sponsors and the press and media if that would happen. They'd drop the whole thing like a hot potato. Dunno about anybody else but one of the best seasons that I have had in recent years was our promotion season. Sure we were top dogs then but it was fantastic stuff all the same.

[EWOODACE1]

the top 4 teams now are man utd, liverpool, chelsea and arsenal. they leave and then the top 4 teams would be tottenham, man city, and 2 others would move up. they would always be replaced by someone else.

[brightonrover]

The league wouldn't be stronger but it would be an awful lot more competitive and enjoyable to watch from that perspective.

[PAFELL]

The league wouldn't be stronger but it would be an awful lot more competitive and enjoyable to watch from that perspective.

The money would follow the top 4 clubs into whatever league they are in. Some may say that is a good thing. Therefore those same folk would think it would be better if rovers were not in the prem, because the lower leagues have less money, the competition is better and more exciting. The top 4 clubs left, the premier league would be non exsistent.

[elwaxo]

I definitely would not agree with the principle of a proposal to move certain teams from the Premier League in to a super League.

I understand the argument that the removal of said teams would make it realistic and achievable to perhaps put together a title challenge, and that the top league would be more evenly distributed in terms of quality.

However one of the reasons that smaller clubs are so excited to reach the pinnacle of Premier League football is to play at stadiums like Anfield and Old Trafford against world class players. Also nothing beats the buzz of being an underdog and upsetting the applecart by beating one of the big sides.

We still remember beating Man United 4-3 and Chelsea 1-0 from around 5 years ago,but we don't remember wins against Wigan, Sunderland and Birmingham. Although I do look forward to watching any match featuring Rovers, hosting the big clubs brings that special buzz and excitement that needs to be retained.

However I do feel we should look at alternative ways to level the playing field, such as salary caps.

Sound idea about salary caps... I agree a break away league shouldn't happen. an english league without united aresnal liverpool etc wouldnt be right!

[BangkokRover]

Sound idea about salary caps... I agree a break away league shouldn't happen. an english league without united aresnal liverpool etc wouldnt be right!

I find it very difficult to see how Salary Cap will come in. It would have to be applied UEFA wide.

But there are other things that can be done to example make all TV deals groups deals, which massively reduce Real Madrids and Barcas advantage over everyone else. Would be a step in the right direction and breath new life in to La Liga which is as predictable as the SPL.

[Lancs Rover]

There's already a salary cap in place, anyway. It's applied on a club-by-club basis and it's called working within a budget. If anything like a salary restriction was applied, a la UEFA Fair Play stuff, many clubs would adjust to a brown envelope strategy, or material equivalent.

Mind you, it would probably make fans better disposed towards the players and more likely to stand them a round if they saw them having a few drinks round town. Then again...

[Mattyblue]

'Everyone looks forward to Anfield and Old Trafford', speak for yourself, horrendous places stuffed full of glory hunters and corporates.

[RevidgeBlue]

In a word, no. the six or eight games a season against the big three (or four before Liverpool turned rubbish) were the highlight of the season for me - or at least they were before Sam took over with his "winnable games" philosophy. Remove those teams and you take away the whole point of being in the Premier League. Without them you might as well be in the Championship.

It really does smack of "If you don't let me win I'm taking my bat and ball home." The only solution is to improve yourself so at least you can give them a beter contest.

[roversfan99]

Even though we were unbeaten at home against the big 4 in Sam's only full season for the first time in over 10 years?

[Guest Rovers4Good]

No way Jose, these so called big teams bring out the best in the likes of Rovers and i say if you got rid of them then we'd be far worse off in the long run.

Also, where would you prefer to go Old Trafford or Loftus Road?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I definitely think almost everything about it would be better for the 15/16 clubs that never have a cat in hell's chance of winning the league and probably won't do for decades to come. The PL is fast becoming like the boring and predictable Scottish Premier and La Liga. The gulf between the likes of us and Man U is absolutely vast, they have about 10 times our revenue, 100 times our fanbase and over triple our crowds. Its no wonder less and less Rovers fans are turning up to away games at these big clubs when we've more and more chance of getting a hiding and only win once a generation. Sky TV and gloryhunters have widened the big club-small club gap to a ridiculous extent from what it was 20 years ago and really we're in the same league as these clubs in nothing but name.

A PL league without what is becoming the regular top 6 would be awesome. I mean ok Everton would have won the last 5 (and guess who the winners before that would have been ) but to be fair Moyes is an awesome manager and given Everton's style every year they would have to overtake quite a few teams in with a very good chance. Sure the TV rights would be less and the quality would be lower but the excitement for proper fans who attend matches would mirror what you get in the championship (but better). I'd absolutely love it and would personally hold the door open for the gloryhunters, biased refs, inflated prices and all the other rubbish the big clubs bring. Good riddance, one day hopefully.

[Mattyblue]

No way Jose, these so called big teams bring out the best in the likes of Rovers and i say if you got rid of them then we'd be far worse off in the long run.

Also, where would you prefer to go Old Trafford or Loftus Road?

Do you actually go to Old Trafford when we play them? And you enjoy it?

Give me matches at 'proper' football clubs everytime.

[cletus]

A PL league without what is becoming the regular top 6 would be awesome. I mean ok Everton would have won the last 5 (and guess who the winners before that would have been ) but to be fair Moyes is an awesome manager and given Everton's style every year they would have to overtake quite a few teams in with a very good chance. Sure the TV rights would be less and the quality would be lower but the excitement for proper fans who attend matches would mirror what you get in the championship (but better). I'd absolutely love it and would personally hold the door open for the gloryhunters, biased refs, inflated prices and all the other rubbish the big clubs bring. Good riddance, one day hopefully.

I agree.

They say the championship is such a hard league to get out of. That`s probably because all the teams are on a far more even playing field. There`s very little mega-money floating about & teams have to rely on good management rather than some wealthy foreigner simply bankrolling a club.

It would be fair to say Chelsea & City wouldn`t be anywhere near the top of the prem, if it wasn`t for either sugar daddy.

Yes United will always be up there or there abouts & they were successful before the Glazers bought them....but they wouldn`t be shelling out £20m-£30m every season on players. There would be a certain amount of 'make do with what you`ve got' coming from above.

Liverpool have found it harder to compete with the new top 4.

Arsenal (although i don`t like them) are the only club/team who don`t seem to depend on billionaires keeping them in a false position.

Gone are the days when a Derby, Forest or a Villa would build a decent team & win the league. These days, these clubs would simply be stripped of all their decent players, even if only to put them in the reserves earning big money....if only to stop 'others' having them.

It would be interesting to see which teams did the best if you omitted all the top four`s results. Infact i might just do that this next coming season.

[thenodrog]

Gone are the days when a Derby, Forest or a Villa would build a decent team & win the league. These days, these clubs would simply be stripped of all their decent players, even if only to put them in the reserves earning big money....if only to stop 'others' having them.

Thanks largely to the Champions League money. The rich get richer and intend to maintain the status quo at all costs.

[Mattyblue]

Forest win promotion, then the title, then the European Cup, then the European Cup again. THAT is football.

Now it would be

'yeah Forest are doing well, but when is Robertson going to move to a big club?' or

'Shilton needs to move to a bigger club if he wants to stay in the England team'.

[thenodrog]

Forest win promotion, then the title, then the European Cup, then the European Cup again. THAT is football.

Now it would be

'yeah Forest are doing well, but when is Robertson going to move to a big club?' or

'Shilton needs to move to a bigger club if he wants to stay in the England team'.

Crap isn't it? Anybody who doesn't blindly support a big club must know that money is killing the game. Given that it's a major national pastime I'm really suprised that the authorities appear happy to allow the game's demise in this way. So many clubs, so many fans and so little hope for the vast majority of them.

[JAL]

In answer to the debate, dont think it would make the slightest of difference if a few teams left as there are plenty of teams big enough with City status to fill the void of the exiting teams.

As for England nationally, still dont think we will see any improvements to our national side whilst our society is set up as it is.

[BangkokRover]

Top European clubs threaten to break away from Fifa and Uefa

[thenodrog]

"Would English football be stronger and/or better if the top few teams left the PL for a European Super League?"

I think a better question would be to replace 'stronger and/or better' with healthier. The answer would surely be a resounding YES.

[Veevs]

"Would English football be stronger and/or better if the top few teams left the PL for a European Super League?"

I think a better question would be to replace 'stronger and/or better' with healthier. The answer would surely be a resounding YES.

Just how would it be healthier.. every PL club going would have to suddenly cut back.. do you think sky would renew the TV rights package at the level it is with a second level league?

The championship would also loose out as it would become a third level league and again cash etc would drop.

The only reason for a so called super league that I can see is greed and nothing else, one easy way to make top level clubs richer by hording the main cash deals within a smaller circle of clubs.

At least at the moment clubs like Blackpool, Norwich, Swansea, QPR et al gain in the long term (provided they don't spend silly).

Overall would be a horid route to take and a big break from tradition, at the moment Rovers struggle significantly, we spend almost all of the TV money just to survive as a club can you imagine what we would have to do to just get by if the TV money was significantly reduced (which it would be without a shadow of a doubt).

The knock on effects of such a financial shift would be lethal at all levels, less money is less investment in all aspects of the great game.

Wage caps are also dangerous imo.. yes the big clubs get a monopoly on the very best, but that will nearly always be the case even with a wage cap (which is bound to have workarounds anyway e.g. larger signing on fees etc). Also to get a salary cap to work you would have to agree it worldwide (or external leagues would just outgun us) and that will never happen.

Personally think the Champions League could do with a few tweaks and thats all it's not the perfect situation but hey ho.

As for the current fair play rules (cap on debt).. they also wind me up a little, yes it means no clubs who want into europe can go the sugar daddy route, but yet again that means that the rich clubs which have the larger fan bases (which generally equates to incomes) will simply dominate just take a sneak peak at the stats for the clubs with the biggest turnovers... Arsenal (382m), ManU (286m), Liverpool(185m), Tottenham (119m), Chelsea (213m) and ManCity (125m).. compaired to us 58m.