[Archived] football analysis

[chor808]

Reading the match threads on here and anywhere else there are lots of people that seem to be able to understand the game at a lot greater depth than me. I watch a lot of football and would say I am a spectator of the game. If someone asked me to rate players I would struggle to be fair, if some one asked how the team was set up I'd have no clue. Often you hear things like getting the basics right etc..honest no bloody clue what they are!

It seems a little sad that after 40 years plus of watching I seem to know bugger all about the game. Anyone else in this bucket? I know coil was and he made a living out of it. Are we all just keyboard experts? Those of you that played the game does that make a difference when you watch? Do you get more enjoyment out of the game if you understand it more?

[DE.]

You need to put some hours into Championship/Football Manager pal. You'll be an expert in no time.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Playing  decent level team football helps a lot. I've been watching rugby league for 50 years but I never played it. As a result things go on out on the pitch that leave me scratching my head. When you speak to the coach after the game he makes what I've missed completely obvious.

 

[gumboots]

27 minutes ago, chor808 said:

Reading the match threads on here and anywhere else there are lots of people that seem to be able to understand the game at a lot greater depth than me. I watch a lot of football and would say I am a spectator of the game. If someone asked me to rate players I would struggle to be fair, if some one asked how the team was set up I'd have no clue. Often you hear things like getting the basics right etc..honest no bloody clue what they are!

It seems a little sad that after 40 years plus of watching I seem to know bugger all about the game. Anyone else in this bucket? I know coil was and he made a living out of it. Are we all just keyboard experts? Those of you that played the game does that make a difference when you watch? Do you get more enjoyment out of the game if you understand it more?

I never have a clue, but I've always put it down to being female and therefore looking at the thing as a whole rather than breaking it down and analysing. Analysis doesn't really interest me. When I sit watching with my son he points things out that I don't notice, because I haven't really been looking at it in the way he does

[dingles staying down 4ever]

31 minutes ago, chor808 said:

Reading the match threads on here and anywhere else there are lots of people that seem to be able to understand the game at a lot greater depth than me. I watch a lot of football and would say I am a spectator of the game. If someone asked me to rate players I would struggle to be fair, if some one asked how the team was set up I'd have no clue. Often you hear things like getting the basics right etc..honest no bloody clue what they are!

It seems a little sad that after 40 years plus of watching I seem to know bugger all about the game. Anyone else in this bucket? I know coil was and he made a living out of it. Are we all just keyboard experts? Those of you that played the game does that make a difference when you watch? Do you get more enjoyment out of the game if you understand it more?

Still makes you more qualified than Owen Coyle as you at least admit you've no idea where he does not. lol

It is a subjective, what one person sees as the right way others do not. Its what makes football the great game it is. Its why people talk about it down the pub. Everyone thinks they have the ability to be a top manager.

[Oldgregg86]

I do think playing, even at amateur level helps to get a sense of perspective. 

[jumpin']

Doing your coaching badges help. In a way. I decided to do mine after an Allardyce v Pulis game circa 6/7 years back when every goal kick went into a 20 yard square of 20 players.

What I learned was patterns, technical aspects, tactics (opponents) and to take the emotion out of the game. Also, it shows the chancers in game who get jobs. 

I deliver 10 hours of coaching a week at grassroots level and it's an eye opener. If I had the chance of 40 hours a week, of professional standard, you could surely sort out a game plan, defensive, transitional, and attacking duties. 

Some of these managers/coaches rob a living. And a few on here will testify. 

[jumpin']

Soz, plus it gives you an understanding why certain things happen, e.g. Emnes coming off (apart from a strain) to shore up the left back because Emnes is an 'artist' not a soldier ( TM words). Rovers are lucky because they have a great back room staff (video analysis, recovery, dieticians etc). Hopefully TM will use these. I've seen some of the previous incumbents sessions (at a previous club) and he's a fraud, if my 12 year old was involved, I would go somewhere else with him.

It also makes you think why subs are on the hour mark, (Cardiff on the horizon etc)

[chor808]

Jumpin any of that course material  online?  Or do you have to sign up to the course. 

[Colt Seavers]

I stopped going to the Rovers for a good few years due to missing a few games because of work. For some reason, I seem to have to commit completely or not go at all. 

I came back during the Ince era as my then seven year old son wanted to go and we are season ticket holders. I was really surprised in a bad way when I came back, at the way modern players are drilled and coached. There seems to be very little room for freedom of expression and any kind of individuality appears to be squeezed out of them. It takes ages now for set pieces and corners and even goal kicks and throw -ins take forever. Physically fit athletic types (Jason Lowe) can flourish now whereas a Ruben Rochina divides opinion. Teams put together in years gone by (eg Don Mackay's etc) were so entertaining and I loved going to games back then. Over -coaching is stifling talent and slowly robbing fans of all that used to be good about the game.

To answer the originator of this thread, I have played football all my life and still play twice a week now in my forties. I like to annoy those around me with an uncanny knack I seem to have developed in being able to predict when we are about to concede. Yesterday I predicted the double substitution of Graham and Mahoney a few minutes before they came on, although I picked the wrong players to come off. I love boring those around me with subtle formation/ tactical changes made during games and I love watching the incidental things that occur, such as the manager communicating his thoughts to the players and the relationship between teammates. I went to the away game at Wigan this season and saw Duffy signalling to others not to pass to Henley who looked as though he wanted the ground to swallow him, such was the depth of his loss of confidence. I said after that match I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave the game. He hasn't played since due to a mystery injury. I also saw Danny Graham (sub warming up) tell Mulgrew to take the ball from Conway prior to the penalty against Derby. Conway knows he isn't playing too well and is under pressure to prove his worth, hence gambling on the penalty. No way was he giving that ball up! After scoring, he waited an age before casting a glance at Mulgrew to determine his expression.

I love watching all that sort of stuff!

Anyway, enough of my yakkin'. Chor808 sounds like a really good bloke and I would enjoy watching a game with you! 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, gumboots said:

I never have a clue, but I've always put it down to being female and therefore looking at the thing as a whole rather than breaking it down and analysing. Analysis doesn't really interest me. When I sit watching with my son he points things out that I don't notice, because I haven't really been looking at it in the way he does

You always make sense to me, as did a couple of other women who used to post on here. " Rovers Mum " and " Nelsen's girlfriend or words to that effect ".

[gumboots]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You always make sense to me, as did a couple of other women who used to post on here. " Rovers Mum " and " Nelsen's girlfriend or words to that effect ".

I think I probably make sense but in an overall impression rather than a break it down and analyse it way. Ryan Nelsens fan was Nicola who lives in Ireland now and I have occasional contact with her through Facebook,  as I have with Rovers mum carol who still attends every game as far as I know

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Colt Seavers said:

I stopped going to the Rovers for a good few years due to missing a few games because of work. For some reason, I seem to have to commit completely or not go at all. 

I came back during the Ince era as my then seven year old son wanted to go and we are season ticket holders. I was really surprised in a bad way when I came back, at the way modern players are drilled and coached. There seems to be very little room for freedom of expression and any kind of individuality appears to be squeezed out of them. It takes ages now for set pieces and corners and even goal kicks and throw -ins take forever. Physically fit athletic types (Jason Lowe) can flourish now whereas a Ruben Rochina divides opinion. Teams put together in years gone by (eg Don Mackay's etc) were so entertaining and I loved going to games back then. Over -coaching is stifling talent and slowly robbing fans of all that used to be good about the game.

To answer the originator of this thread, I have played football all my life and still play twice a week now in my forties. I like to annoy those around me with an uncanny knack I seem to have developed in being able to predict when we are about to concede. Yesterday I predicted the double substitution of Graham and Mahoney a few minutes before they came on, although I picked the wrong players to come off. I love boring those around me with subtle formation/ tactical changes made during games and I love watching the incidental things that occur, such as the manager communicating his thoughts to the players and the relationship between teammates. I went to the away game at Wigan this season and saw Duffy signalling to others not to pass to Henley who looked as though he wanted the ground to swallow him, such was the depth of his loss of confidence. I said after that match I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave the game. He hasn't played since due to a mystery injury. I also saw Danny Graham (sub warming up) tell Mulgrew to take the ball from Conway prior to the penalty against Derby. Conway knows he isn't playing too well and is under pressure to prove his worth, hence gambling on the penalty. No way was he giving that ball up! After scoring, he waited an age before casting a glance at Mulgrew to determine his expression.

I love watching all that sort of stuff!

Anyway, enough of my yakkin'. Chor808 sounds like a really good bloke and I would enjoy watching a game with you! 

Some great points made their. Today's game is a completely different game from early premiership years and further back. I used to love how players had the freedom to express themselves I.e the Gascoignes and hoddles of the world. Shearer style shoulder barges, and crunching tackles just to let the opposition know there in a game. Today's game is a lot more professional. It's like a game of chess and the manager decides how the game is to be won and the players are drilled to do just that. Players are much fitter and their is no where to hide. Tackling is a dying art. Both modern and older football have things to be admired but today's game is not the same game I played as a teen. 

[jumpin']

10 hours ago, chor808 said:

Jumpin any of that course material  online?  Or do you have to sign up to the course. 

Twitter is a good source. Lots of high end coaches share their work or thoughts on way teams play.

[Lancaster Rover]

The LFA run the level 1 course regularly from Leyland and it's not particularly expensive to do, worth doing if you have the time and inclination.

[chor808]

How about something like one of these. Might be a start.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inverting-Pyramid-History-Football-Tactics/dp/1409128644

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soccer-Tactics-Coaches-Formations-Situations/dp/1591640253

[Lancaster Rover]

Inverting the pyramid is very good, one of the best books written on the history and evolution of formations and tactics, it's quite heavy though and if you don't have a grounded understanding of how formations work and evolve it can be difficult to take in. 

I'd say the coaching courses would give you a better understanding than any book can as it forces you to be in it, in the same way playing to a high level gives you a better insight as you're dealing with it on a daily basis.

[cmb211087]

The FA have free online courses too.

For analysis purposes, the following is a very good start:

The FA Level 1 in Talent Identification

[gumboots]

It doesn't seem to work for the FA though does it?

[Lancaster Rover]

The coaching delivered by the FA is brilliant, as is the new setup with the age group rep teams, this hasn't filtered through to the national team yet and may never do as the amount of youngsters who go through from age rep groups to first team is negligible, there is a huge drop off at the crucial ages. The issue that the FA will always have is that they currently have no real say over how EPP academies are run and there is always going to be a disconnect between the national coaching setup and clubs. The only criticism that can be levelled at the FA for its youth coaching and coaching in general setup is that its cost prohibitive for anyone outside the elite arena to go through and complete A and pro licenses.

[chor808]

1 hour ago, cmb211087 said:

The FA have free online courses too.

For analysis purposes, the following is a very good start:

The FA Level 1 in Talent Identification

Superb thanks I've signed up for it. Did you send it to Coil? He might need it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

" Inverting The Pyramid " is interesting. The book that influenced me the most was " Soccer For Thinkers " by Malcolm Allison, it may be a bit dated now but at the time it taught me a lot about the game.

Copies go for crazy prices on Amazon.