http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=565539

No, his point was that there was something lacking with the clubs inability to develop Donnelly, rather than admitting that Donnelly wasn't/isn't good enough.

American, you think he IS good enough? 'cos he aint. Not yet anyway. [splutter, faint].

Well their fans were wrong, whereas several managers were right about him. You have to realise that the best people to judge a young player aren't the fans - you or me, Rover6, it is the managers/coaches who work with the players day in, day out. They see the weaknesses, they see the reasons why certain players wont make it in the tough world of pro football. We were discussing Treacy and you judging him as ready for the first team because of his form in the reserves and the Republic under 21s. I didn't say that no-one makes it from the reserves Rover6. I said it was a huge gap between the reserve league and the [in our case] Prem. and it is - massive, especially nowadays, when reserve sides are mainly made up of youths. So while performing well in reserve team football is essential in most cases [barring the odd George Best who was obviously head and shoulders above anyone at a comparable age], it is by no means a guage of first team readiness. I've seen many rovers youngsters playing for two or three seasons and performing well in the pontins/central league, but never making even a single first team appearance, then disappearing completely. Now your argument is that if they had been given a chance, they might have made it. Well, they might. The fact that very, very few youngsters make it back at a high level [which is rovers and the prem, in our case], suggests that the vast majority wouldn't.

What would you like TB to do about a player that isn't and never was good enough to play league football, Rover6? You have to get things in perspective here. Being the best prospect at a club means nothing, - there are thousands of these in amateur football. Likewise, reserve success - what reserve success are you talking about? Whenever I saw him for the reserves he was always lacking. England youth standard is a standard way below the football league standard. There are some real tough guys around even at clubs like Fleetwood, - there are none at youth level. You also mentioned that Treacy was in the form of his life, - but that was in the reserves and in the Republic under 21 team, for goodness sake. I'm not sure that he was what you said anyway - the form of his life. The step up from reserve level to first team level is Massive. Don't underestimate how big a leap it is.

To be fair though Rev, that would apply to any player at the club. Depends what you mean by suitable.

Yeah, I don't want to get sucked in either,especially as we're off topic. - and I know what you mean Matt, I just wanted you to explain how Rangers were grander, apart from their support. The bit in bold is pretty grand as well.

It's a nailed on certainty that they play in the champs league, they have no-one to beat. If they played in the prem, they wouldn't be doing. - just like rovers don't.

You said they are a grander club than rovers, so I'm just asking this Matt - They get more fans on than rovers do, due to there being no other other clubs in Scotland. What else makes them "grander" than rovers?

They get more fans on than rovers do, due to there being no other other clubs in Scotland. What else makes them "grander" than rovers, Rovermatt?

The reason why these two can never play together, is that neither of them can play the short, clever passing game, in the centre of the park, that all the better international sides can. Gerrard is all about big strides, getting up and down the pitch. Lampard does neither.

Well if he aint asked, we'll never know. Bloody good call though. Time for a hard man, someone to put the fear of god up 'em.

Interesting interview with Roy Keane on SSN. He reckons that England have players as good technically, as lots of other teams. He says the problem is definately down to inflated egos. OHe says once egos take over, you're on a loser. He says that as good as the players are, good players don't make good teams. He thinks the England players don't care enough about the international games. The game in England is club orientated. Just a thought, how about Keane for England manager? There's no way that anyone would underperform with him in charge. From that, something I noticed last night - Gerrard, when asked how disappointed he was, said that it was as disappointing a night he'd had, with England. He also added maybe unvoluntarily, that he'd had some very disappointing times with liverpool. It did sound as though he was more interested in his club than his country.

I'm going to close this topic temporarily, simply to keep the England/McClaren talk in one place.

Just twp points Bazza. 1] I've no idea how precise that link to speeds is. 2] No doubt they promise UP TO 8Mb Even so, you should take them to task on their service. Under 1 Mb is nowhere near 8Mb is it! Sorry I can't help further.

Just as a matter of interest, what are these settings that they have changed?

Just to let everyone know that the slow speed problem has been fixed. After a few discussions with Sky, I recieved this message: Thank you for contacting Sky Broadband Technical Support. I can confirm that we have made some configuration changes to your line, and this is the reason that you have noticed a visible difference in your broadband connection. We have adjusted your settings so that your line now receives the optimal speed for your line and this also takes into account the distance that you live from your telephone exchange. No problem at all with speed now. Using THIS test, I'm at around 7MB, even at peak times. Thanks for EVERYONES help.

No, but no-one would be distraught, if we had someone lined up - better than him. You could say that about any player, including Bentley McCarthy and Santa. What's the chances though?

OLD? He's 33 for gawds sake. Many centre halves have played well beyond that age.

That's the obvious one Lee. but possibly the best. People tend to pass the first page though. We could ask admin to provide a button at the top of the forums page, but then the reviews are unattached from the main topic.

and back to Lucas Neill............

I've been trying to think of a way of putting the review in a more accessible place than "page 14". Any suggestions?

Blue Phil, if you keep baiting the mods, one of them will bite back soon.

Reduced ST prices certainly did make a difference.