As was his potential. He may well have not reach that potential (and may still fade away) but it was pretty criminal not to invest and investigate further. With Walton it's a bit of a no win situation. If he shows promise and does better than Raya he won't be here next season / would cost more than Raya did to buy - ie we couldn't afford him. Or he does worse and we have a weaker keeper and that's assuming he stays.

I think you are confusing him with Steele...

Whilst it was a disappointment to see Raya go I'm surprised how quickly he is settling there. I'm especially surprised about the comments of commanding the area, which seemed a weakness, but if true really highlights how poor our keeper coaching and development and the defensive set up is. As for which keeper would be good for us in our system - system specific (as opposed to Brad because he's the best keeper we've ever had) I'd say Robinson. His long kicks really were accurate and would give Gally and Graham some good balls to do something with.

Probably it was because it was a stunt to show how advertising is taking ove the game. They most likely didn't like the spotlight shone on their gravy train.

We still need a striker to replace Graham long term. £15 mill spend and we've still not managed it. An experienced keeper who is ours At least 1 centre back and a RB if Nayambe is exiled A right winger None of these will happen. Our glut of mistakes up front need to be shoehorned in on the right wing, whilst Bennett will be shoehorned in to the RB position come what may. TM simply cannot buy another striker as even Venkys would ask questions so can't see that happening and we haven't signed a proper hard as nails centre back yet despite a shortage for years. (Although we're happy to convert people to play there.) As for a keeper of we didn't get one when Raya had gone, there's no way we'll get one whilst Walton is in the building.

Does Parker have the nous to get them promoted? Not sure on that one. It really is an open league this year - hard to see who will go up.

Hmm not sure every team is losing 5-6 key players. Admittedly early days but our initial attempts to phase Graham out really haven't worked at all. Bereton was a massive mistake and early signs are neither Gally or Armstrong are up to taking on his mantel even if they are ok players. Given we struggled to get in players this year and are short in places - for example centre back - without having to replace many key players (bar Mulgrew) the idea of doing so amidst so many important players going I don't think is that feasible. Add in TMs sketchy record in the transfer market and having to replace so many players is worrying. If you look at our first 2 seasons under TM in his first he didn't have a transfer window and did a decent job with what he had. In our promotion season 75% of the key players were all here (only Dack Smallwood and arguably Downing contributed considerably during that season.) Now credit must go to TM for utilising what he had well but he's never struck me as a good team builder or spotter of players. So a significant influxnof players in a season is a worry both as it's not TMs strength and the conditions/set up of the club don't help transfers either. As for youngsters coming through I don't think that's a massive strength of TMs either. Of the players you mention only Travis has come through well, 2 promising players you mention in Nayambe and Rothwell aren't getting much game time and have lost their positions to players who aren't primarily players in that position and if anything are regressing. And whilst all youngsters won't make it Raya and Nuttall being shipped out further suggests that bringing young players through is not a forte of the manager. His comments regarding the young players support my suspicions on this. That said at least they are on the bench and getting a bit of game time but it's not enough imo. Completely agree with you about what the target should be however my concern is your last sentence. With so many aging or leaving players we won't be better served to go up next season if we don't go up this one. We'll be left with a few of our older players declining and half a defence to sort out. If anything I feel meet year we will be starting from a much weaker base for the reasons outlined above.

Think Frosty articulates in part what I am getting at much better than I do. All games can seem tough but also there's a lot of strong reasons to be optimistic with each game as well - they are all realistically winnable. The manager makes a huge difference too - for example Brum under Rowett Vs Brum under Zola as one example, or a more recent one Cardiff last promotion under Warnock after looking terrible the season before. So whilst not solely down to manager it is a huge factor influencing how a team will do and the Championship has proved a tough situation for many a rookie manager. Frosty adds in how West Brom have had a few bumps already, Boro had a poor end to last season too (I think) and Hull - meh have not threatened for ages. So all in all think it's fair to say it wasn't that difficult a start.

Agree. In other words it was a good time to play Fulham. And West Brom definitely are weaker than the free scoring side of last year. A team with top 6 ambitions would've been eying up points at Albion.

How are two rookie managers, a bog standard lower championship team, a weakened league 1 team in the first 6 games, coupled with 2 admittedly tougher games, classed as a tough start? A myth defending an average to indifferent start from TM saying it has been a tough run of games.

We're no nearer to gelling than the start of last season! To say we're taking time to find the right combination is an understatement. We either can't score or can't defend, have spent £15 mill on strikers who can't get in the team up front and still are using a midfielder as a stand in right back. Added to which if we don't succeed this season we take a huge step backwards as arguably 6 first team players - Walton, Cunningham, Tosin, Downing, Johnson and Graham - will need replacing. No way that can be considered a slow build. And given TMs indifferent ability in the transfer market the idea of replacing so many players fills me with dread.

I don't buy this tough start at all. Yes today was a difficult game but WBA had lost a couple of players from last season so wasn't insurmountable. The rest of the start saw us Vs rookie managers at Boro and Fulham - would've been worse if played them when the managers are more familiar with the league - Charlton, a team from league 1 who lost a few key players, a big standard lower championship team in Hull and a tough game Vs Cardiff. Not a hard start imo at all. Obviously it's little unpredictable - Charlton are doing better than expected whilst Cardiff worse but I don't think it was a nightmare start. As for today wingers on the wrong side and silly defensive errors sounds vintage Rovers.

Well TM dropped a clanger for me today. He can't legislate for silly defensive errors - although their regularity does bring questions to the coaching - but he can play wingers on the correct side. Every time we've seen Downing and Armstrong on the wrong side we struggle. It isn't rocket science - don't do it. Make the most of Downings crossing and Armstrong being on his favoured foot. TM really isn't helping himself with decisions like that.

My wife isn't at all into football but occasionally asks how the championship is going. I showed her the table at lunch today an her immediate response was Leeds always fall away. Good to know Leeds bottling tendencies are well known. Also I agree with those saying the championship is weaker this year. Teams relegated last year are struggling or have inexpeirienced managers. No squad looks really strong. Charlton starting well is proof that any team can do well. Agree with those saying the championship is there for the taking this year.

2 relegation places sorted early perhaps? Probably too early to tell but early warning signs are there and no chance to bring in new players to rectify things till Jan.

I agree they're probably happy it wasn't mentioned and flagged up, I'm not sure it's great practice to go public with criticism - and if that's the case why do it to the youngsters? The issue is the inequality of it as the youngsters in question have also been shipped out or not playing. So firstly the issue is the doubling down on the youngsters - if Evans etc were treated in line with their performances, the youngsters got that and publically slated. The issue firstly is one of inequality. If I'm honest I also think that the standards used to drop the youngsters by and large were much harsher than the senior pros. Mulgrew, Smallwood and Bennett even now played worse for much longer before being dropped than Nayambe and Rothwell for example. (Raya is arguably the exception although that is partly due to a lack of back up keepers and imo he also showed lots of positives and promise as well as silly errors.) Senior players seem to have a lot more lattitude for errors than the young players. Fortunately there have been changes - positive changes - but they seem very slow in coming and for every positive there seems to be a step back as well. One of which, imo, is TM's handling of young players.

We're on a good run, so a point is a feasible outcome. Not sure West Brom are as good a team as last year, so feel we certainly should be able to match them. With Cunningham in defense, and Lenihen and Williams picking up a partnership, as well as the excellent protection of Travis and Johnson, you feel a lot more confident of staying in the game. That said our lack of goals suggests if West Brom score, especially early, it'd be a home win, as we struggle to get back into the game. Being optimistic though I'm going for 0-0 as our improved defensive performances outshine our lack of attacking ability. West Brom aren't that great, and we'll be more confident after a few positive results, so another point in our push to mediocrity will be appreciated.

When you factor in Samuel who was a relatively expensive signing for league 1, TM has a heck of a stinker of a record of signing strikers. Also given Bereton and Samuel failed out wide (although in fairness Bereton would fail anywhere imo) he's not really learning it's a tactic that doesn't work.

See this is the thing. If it was one young player who the manager criticised and told to up their game, or the manager treated all players similarly, then there wouldn't be any issue, or so many posts. Probably a "hope that causes a reaction / gives him the kick up the backside that is needed" type response. However 1) it is only young players who are singled out - regardless of form. Haven't seen Mulgrew, Evans, Smallwood and Bennett singled out for some atrocious performances which given some of their consistent inadequacy must be hard for the young players to take, when they are slated in similar, or in some cases, for less poor performances. That's bound to annoy anyone. How would anyone in any job feel when their mistakes are criticised in public, but their senior colleagues make more mistakes yet nothing is said? it can't help team spirit. 2) How is it working out? Nayambe and Raya singled out, and one has left and one is dropped. Rothwell singled out and he's not in the team despite some positive performances at the end of last season. If the tactic was working, unfair and unethical (imo) as it is you'd see the benefit, but the calling out of these players isn't really working whatsoever. So it's not only bad for team morale it's pretty ineffective. Personally I think Chapman would rate as a good impact sub, bringing him on for the last 15-20 mins and watching him cause havoc against tired legs. We don't really have a player like him in the squad so it's a shame we're not utilising him. Strangest of all is that TM has worked with him and knows what he is like, and I can't see a massive character change in 12/18 months so it's an odd signing if TM doesn't rate him either talent or attitude wise.

The whole keeper situation is another mess of TMs making. After a sketchy start Walton has looked better the last few games but regardless come the summer we will once again be looking for a numbrler keeper and will be depleated between the sticks. Also not so easy to build a defence with a loan keeper (unless option to buy) imo as no continuity year after year. The reserve keeper situation is farcical though. Leuitweiller (sp) had an unimpressive run of games at the end last season so we all knew how poor he was. 2 games for him into this season means that either TM is a slow learner - in which case what was the point of the run of games last season? - or TM is reacting to 2 games only (albeit poor performances). Either way it's not too reassuring that at present we'll go into next season without a decent - much less quality - keeper on the books.

And this is the rub. Maybe Chapman is having attitude problems but the issue is yet another young player called out - which in and of itself is damaging and I refuse to believe they all have attitude problems - when senior pros get off lightly. It's a huge double standards issue that is only going to harm the squad unity and discourage young players. Another reoccurring trend it shows is TMs defensiveness towards any criticism and questioning. Yes TM we should question you when so many promising and talented youngsters can't get in the team. Rothwell, Nayambe, Raya, Nuttall, Chapman - all not without attirubutes and some promise - yet unable to get in the team. Whilst not every player will make it, the common trend here is that very few are and that is the manager's fault.

Spot on. Worst thing that could have happened. I'd perhaps throw the "Champions" League into there as well, especially under it's 3 or 4 teams from top countries guise too, furthering the gulf within the Prem.

Not too sure about us having done pretty well whatsoever! Of our big signings for the last 3 years only Dack has been a success. Hard to judge this season's lot 6 games in but having done a thread the past 2 years evaluating our signings the concensus was that we were batting at about 50:50 which is a poor ratio, especially for a club with limited resources. I find the Chapman situation odder than Bereton. I think all including TM recognise Bereton was a colossal mistake but there was an element of unknown about him before Bereton came. Chapman however had been with us previously on loan and we knew exactly what we were getting but don't use him. That's the one I don't get.

In fairness to Gally being stuck out on the wing is not going to help him get goals whatsoever. In fairness to our £12 million spent (charitably assuming Armstrong is a utility player) we really should have a Graham replacement.

Think TM realises he has dropped an absolute clanger with Bereton. Chapman is a mystery, as is Rothwell who is an even bigger mystery given his overall performances when he plays!