JHRover

Would anyone consider anything below 7th this season to be a success? If so, and in view of last season's finish, why?

So devil's advocate mode again - let's suppose that there is some serious foundation to the investigation in India let's say that VLL has been used or is being used for other reasons other than funding the club, some of which might not be above board, ethical or even legal. Should the authorities just turn a blind eye to all that because ultimately they are still paying the bills every month?

That's your opinion based on what Ismael and the club have released. You don't know that as a fact. My opinion is there are two sides to the coin and I'm inclined not to believe what the regime says given their track record. You and nobody else knows that Ismael answered honestly, or more importantly that the information he has been given by others including the lying Venky stooge, is accurate. Nobody knows with certainty other than those directly involved in the mess.

Indeed. They should replace 'fit and proper' with 'do you pay your bills on time?' as the only requirement of an owner these days. If you do that you are fine and free to do whatever you please. If you don't then you are evil.

If we were paying millions for a 27 year old captain of a Championship rival with 200+ games in this league under his belt and no record of fitness issues this place would be jumping for joy.

The club regime controls the narrative with all incoming and outgoing players. Sadly some can't see this and instead leap to the defence of the club regime for being 'truthful' and 'honest' about the situation rather than engaging their brains for a few seconds. Take the Travis example - he hasn't been made available by the club for any sort of press coverage since the players returned to training in June. Unless I've missed it, apologies if I have, there hasn't been a single interview with him, either with in-house media or external media. That in itself tells me something, because there have been a lot of interviews with players and staff and lots of 'fun and games' with players - but no sit down interview. Whether deliberate or not the result of this is that nobody has had chance to ask him about the situation, so of course his version of events isn't going to get any coverage. Naturally the regime would dictate the questions allowed in any interview regardless, just look at their conduct in the Fans Forum meeting, but they haven't even gone that far this summer. They know what they are doing alright and so when Ismael needlessly stacks all the blame for the situation at Travis' door, despite the club admitting already this summer that 'mistakes' were made on contracts in the last 12 months - seemingly contradicting themselves - it is time to ask questions not simply accept it as the gospel truth. As with every sort of situation involving two parties there are probably two accounts / versions of events. I understand a natural temptation by fans to side with the manager/club/directors as it is more comfortable, easier to blame the outgoing party and align with those that remain. Life is rarely so simple and being a fan does not mean just believing in the most palatable scenario because it is easier or more comfortable. It involves asking serious questions and challenging the narrative being set by untrustworthy people.

He'll be getting advice not to bother. Firstly he's still officially a Rovers player, so zero chance he's going to say anything at all until the ink is dry on the deal. Then he'll just crack on with the soundbites for his new club, we'll get a 'statement' on social media about thanks for the memories but I'd be astonished if there was a spilling of the beans on what has really gone on. It just isn't done in football with departing players. I suppose there isn't really any need because there's nothing really to be gained and it's not his problem any more.

The difference is the club haven't had to resort to dirty underhand tactics to get rid of Bucko because he wasn't a cornerstone of the team/captain and probably would have quietly sat on the bench for the next 12 months if necessary. Travis is obviously a different case being actively pursued by rival Championship clubs and first name on the teamsheet last season. The club have had to deploy a hatchet job operation on Travis to paint him as a villain in this sorry saga and, credit where it is due, it has worked with aplomb judging by comments on social media. All it really took was a win at Hull, a couple of unnecessary and unchallenged comments by Ismael in his post-match press conferences and signing another foreign player who sounds exciting but nobody knows anything about and the job is done. Not even a murmur of anger or outrage now about offloading the captain to Derby County less than a week before the window closes. It's impressive but shows we've no chance of ever succeeding against this regime when they are able to control the narrative so easily via the Telegraph and media and so many in the support base just swallow it.

Chaddy should get a job working for the police or as a Judge. He has the ability to determine whether a man is lying or telling the truth based purely on what he says and this being printed in the newspaper. If only the world was so simple.

Cloud cuckoo land

Sometimes I find it hard to believe that any Rovers fan can have confidence in 'building for the future' under this regime. Yes Eustace was for the here and now - he's a Championship manager who on average might get a couple of years to deliver and that's what any manager should be judged on - immediate results and league position. He found a way of delivering play-off form over 7 months on a shoestring after selling Szmodics. Whatever it is we are doing now it will have to be a total masterstroke to eclipse the results and league position Eustace was providing us with. Fortunately for those running the show they aren't employed to get us promoted, and aren't employed based on league position, so provided we can scrape our way to 50 points they will be quite comfortable. We are now embarking on a few years of the gravy train road to nowhere as they 'build' - but they didn't need to build - if they'd have kept what we had we would have been very well placed for promotion last season. How on earth anyone can say this club is building for the future in a summer where we've watched basically the entire spine of the team walk out the door as a direct result of a negligent failed approach to contract renewals baffles me. This is just life in the Venky cycle - someone else gets their foot in the door and oversees another rebuild, and then in a couple of years they'll have left or the owners will have changed track again. It never ends. Yet because we've got a revolving door of players people get giddy and think there's some grand plan or ambition.

made 53 appearances in 4 years at Lorient beyond which he's been loaned out to 3 clubs I've never heard of. Ambitious? £5 million? Really?

Hyam named in the Scotland squad. Good news for Rovers, should add a few quid on to his sale price.

I give it 2 years maximum and then there will be a new manager and new 'Head of Football' only it will be lots of talk about how we need to use the academy more and not rely on loads of foreign signings, that there's too much money going into the academy to not use more players from it. We've seen all this before - lurching from one 'project' to the next every couple of years. Realistically now we're onto our third radically different approach in the space of 3 years. We had the Broughton / JDT approach which was heavily focused on bringing through academy lads and worked as well as anyone could expect with the number that graduated through to the first team. Then with Eustace there was a total shift in the opposite direction to relying on proven experienced players and hardly any academy focus Now with Ismael he talked a good game about the academy when he joined but based on recruitment to date and likely departures it is clear that there's little appetite for bringing through more youngsters or relying on those already senior who have come through the academy. Just making it up as they go along . Either that or a decision has been made already to downgrade the academy and save a couple of million a year there so offloading all academy graduates and adopting a foreign model is the precursor to justifying that.

A bloke who has shelled out tens of thousands on mortgage and credit card repayments over the last 15 years can still be tight. He's simply repaying what he owes / living costs which is what the '£200 million' to Venkys is - the tab - going back a decade and a half - for running costs and negligent mismanagement.

You were publicly stating Ismael should have been sacked after not much more than 3 games into his tenure here last season. You seem to have totally flipped on that view now. The owners of Wrexham have ambition, so they won't be keeping a struggling manager out of gratitude or loyalty, or because he's done a good job up to now. That sort of investment they will want and expect more than a relegation danger so if things don't pick up I bet he will be in trouble. This isn't amateur football where you let someone carry on in the job because its the nice or right thing to do. It's only at places like Rovers (that go nowhere and achieve nothing) where individuals and nice men get to carry on regardless of performance and results.

What, that you just accept everything that they come out with at Ewood without engaging your own brain and thinking about things for a few minutes? Yep no surprise at all.

No I don't. Were you born yesterday?

This guy is a big problem no doubt, and there are dots being joined about his involvement and agenda, but it all starts and ends with Venkys. No more of this that they are fine in the background but are being misled/taken advantage of/will learn from mistakes. They are poison as much or more than those they employ to do their dirty work. They will only leave when they have to. Hopefully - long shot - their legal issues and restrictions eventually break them or their business collapses into dust and then we are freed from their occupation but I'm not confident of that. It may be a waiting game and may take many years for the evil four to give up or for control of their business to pass to others. Hopefully then there's a change. It might take decades but so be it. This club will never achieve its potential or grow/improve under their occupation.

Cantwell is getting the captaincy partly because he's one of the few remaining experienced players that have a clue about the Championship and partly because 'they' know that this is one way of injecting additional value into him ahead of January/Summer 2026 when 'they' turn their attentions on the next round of sales of which he will be top of the list once Hyam and Tronstad have been dealt with. I suspect Ismael has had zero choice in this matter, it has been imposed on him from upstairs.

3 year deal I think so January/next summer will be cash in time. If they can get him to double figure goals and captain all season there will be a few million profit to be had there.

He'll be ok until the Regime gets him in their crosshairs as the next one to axe. Probably be January or next summer as they've still got Hyam and Tronstad to deal with yet and £5 million banked from Trav and Brittain to put in the balance sheet. Plus they'll be hoping for a stand out season for Cantwell as captain really bumps up his value.

I have

I see the regime has "done a job" on poor Elliott Jackson again this week. 'His sources' - aka the club - have told him it could be a deal worth £3 million Doesn't then take much for the moronic element of our support base to start clapping like seals at what a good deal our negotiators have secured (again, it doesn't actually matter as £1 million or £5 million makes no odds, it isn't going into transfers or improvements and we're signing a loan on less money) But nonetheless it's worked because any outrage over this deal dissipates when Jackson and his acolytes can applaud it as a 'good deal' The only party here getting a good deal is Derby, picking up a solid, experienced, fit as a fiddle captain of good character for next to nothing in modern terms, whilst we go with our begging bowl to the minor leagues of Europe signing a loanee who might not be good enough or fit enough for what is needed Its just horrible to watch it unfold. I feel ashamed at what this club has become, basically throwing prized valuable players out to the likes of Derby and Middlesbrough so the stooges can rip the squad up, hit their cost saving targets and do favours for their mates.

Ah so this is the new 'model' - fascinating to witness it unfolding before our eyes. Sell our captain, academy developed lynchpin and leader of the side, outstanding fitness record, to a league rival for an undervalue, then replace him with the loan signing of a bloke who has been in Switzerland with very serious fitness concerns. Sustainable? No. Sensible? No. A huge gamble? Yes. Please can those still oblivious to what is going on here wake up and smell the coffee. They're juggling the club's future and league status, playing games, earning %s and sending us on a very dangerous path.