JHRover

Well it is to do with Covid. Firstly because our losses are much higher than they would have been without Covid - surely you accept that? And secondly because FFP rules were relaxed so that costs and lost revenues directly attributable to the pandemic could be claimed as an exemption - so all this talk about having no fans for 18 months doesn't contribute to calculations. The wage bill has been slashed over the last few months. Selling Armstrong won't change that unless he isn't replaced either in which case we might as well give up. Lots of clubs have high wages to turnover. Preston were at 160% in the last figures yet I don't see them offloading half their squad and ending up in dire straits. I'll be the first to slag Mowbray off but he hasn't spent £20 million in transfer fees. Off the top of my head he's had Brereton £7 million, Gallagher £5 million, Armstrong £2 million and then smaller ones like Kaminski, Davenport and Pickering for a few hundred grand each. So more like £15 million or so net spend. That is good backing and more importantly he hasn't had to sell anyone and has had time in the job to do it as he likes without instability. But since 2019 we've actually spent only a few hundred grand here and there. Lets not make out as though we've been on a spending spree. I'm not really interested in the reasons for selling Rhodes. The more important point is what we did afterwards and what we can learn from that. The fact is the money disappeared and we got relegated. I don't want that to happen again.

No we couldn't. Even if we are at risk from FFP - and I don't believe we are I think it is a convenient cover - but even if we are there is no way we would start the season on -10 points. Only two clubs have had points deductions, those followed lengthy investigations taking months if not years and both were more complex than straight forward overspending. Birmingham because they ignored an embargo and continued to spend and Sheff Wed because they fiddled with their accounts to hide losses. I'm not asking for substantial spending or reinvestment. A few free transfers to fill the gaps created would be good. I don't believe that FFP rules are preventing us from doing that - I believe this is down to the owners stopping spending again.

The point is that the money has already been spent. Venkys invest in transfer fees on the proviso they get it back through sales. So the Brereton and Gallagher cash has already been earmarked. Simple question - would you rather survive in the Championship and lose Armstrong on a free next summer or sell him now, get money that won't benefit the club and get relegated? Selling your best players and not signing anyone whilst releasing 11 players is stupid beyond belief, as is persisting with a poor manager. We're good at making stupid decisions here.

This time next summer Travis will have 1 year left on his contract, and a multitude of other players will be out of contract. So I'm not sure what point you are making. I expect you will be arguing he needs to be sold next summer to get some cash in for him rather than risk him leave on a free in 2023. Unless you are expecting all those players including Lenihan and Nyambe to be offered and sign new deals - I think you are going to be disappointed if so. I would rather be in a League embargo and survive in the Championship than a self-imposed embargo and get relegated. If we were under a League embargo now what difference would it have made to our summer? None. We haven't signed anyone and haven't even been close. The manager says loans are all we can hope for so that isn't going to help us in terms of developing more Armstrongs and following the Brentford model is it?

I think we are ending up at cross purposes here. In isolation I have no objections as such to us selling Armstrong to a PL club, provided we get a suitable fee for him. The issue I have is that we are not a normal club. Other clubs sell their star players, but then have a plan and funds to go out, reinvest, strengthen and go again. We won't do that. We know from experience what happens. January 2016 we sell Rhodes. Very similar comments on here then about it being something we needed to do, was the reality of where we were, that it would provide good funds to rebuild the squad. Then over the following 18 months we spent one fee on Derrick Williams, Lambert walked and we got relegated. That is not reinvestment and if that is what we have to look forward to I would rather keep Armstrong because at least we could have some confidence of survival this season. Other clubs sign players, even if only on frees. We haven't done anything all summer, which isn't normal even for those under restrictions or on the cusp of FFP.

You really must have been born yesterday if you believe the state of the club is down to FFP rules. I notice you didn't answer my question about relegation. I hope you aren't one of these who thinks we are too good to go down. The 20 million loss is due to Covid. Isn't it amazing how no other clubs have ended up in sudden dire straits and having to slash costs and sell players to achieve compliance Almost as though it is unique to Rovers. Wonder why that could be.

I'm glad you mentioned them two. I expect their transfer fees are what Armstrong's fee will be covering. Not got a lot to show for this 4 year journey have we?

Yet you still think allowing our top goalscorer to leave is sensible and that our difficulties are because of FFP rules?

And if it results in relegation will you still think the same? Other clubs sell players and then are ready to reinvest and go again. That's what we used to do. It doesn't happen under this regime, we just get weaker and weaker and waste what little cash is spent on loans.

Like we did after selling Rhodes, Gestede, Cairney? Oh yeah, we spent nothing, relied on frees and loans and ended up in League One. The money goes into the black hole and to pay the wages of loans.

Embarrassing isn't it. The most excitement we have seen in months and it is all about rumours of which clubs are after our best player and how much they are willing to pay for him. The fact that Rovers won't benefit from the money and that these clubs were below us in the pecking order not too long ago just sums up how far we have fallen. Absolutely nothing in the media about players we are after (probably because we aren't after anyone) yet weekly hysteria about Armstrong going because that's just about all there is left to talk about here.

One hell of a gamble. You're happy to gamble with the club's future, I'm not. I don't think we are in a position to take that sort of risk and just hope it pays off, and certainly not with this manager's track record on young projects. Nothing wrong with using our own academy players in the first team - Nyambe, Trav, Lenihan - 3 big players for us who I would have first names on the team sheet most weeks. Then there's Buckley, JRC and Wharton who also feature regularly. So there's no shortage of players making the grade and being used. Our academy is highly productive and has delivered more than most. Shame about most of these lads running their contracts down because the Club hasn't got any sort of medium to long term aim but that's another story for another day. The policy here however, which you seem happy to go with, is to avoid spending any money, issuing permanent contracts or recruiting externally because why do that when you can chuck an academy lad in which is cheaper and easier, regardless of whether they are actually good enough or not and just hope it works out. By works out we aren't talking about promotion from this league, just existence down the middle. Again no overarching aim or ambition at this club other than to cobble together a squad and float around hoping individuals develop and improve. Others have aims - promotion asap - and recruit to try and achieve it.

If it means we stay in the Championship rather than go into League One, yes.

We're just going to lose all our assets and be left stuck with Mowbray, kids and loans aren't we? The stuff of nightmares. I long for the day these scumbags are gone. And no, a kid from Norwich who has never done anything in return for our 25 goal a season talisman is not good business nor is money we won't spend

Waggott's looking into it. He'll let us know.

Not much point in having a football club is there really? Everything is too expensive or too hard work, from producing a programme to selling tickets. Nobody wants to work here. Can't even sign players.

Would you really, honestly do that? Or are you just saying that because you expect that is what will happen because the club is such a shambles? I suspect you and the manager along with pretty much everyone else would, if they could, favour signing experienced professionals for these positions rather than gambling the season and the club's future on kids.

The above is the senior squad and these players are in the u23 squad. You do realise that we have two squads and need two squads and that everyone in the u23s isn't automatically a first team squad player?

This is the message I get on the season ticket page

So just to sum up then: - Season tickets second to last in the Championship to be announced and put on sale, now expecting lowest sales in decades - Club shop shut all day on Tuesday, just 4 days before the season opener at home - New kit among the last to be unveiled and put on sale - Rumours that no programmes are to be produced for the first time in what, a century? Only club in the Championship not bothering? - Still no news on Millwall away tickets, with the game in 10 days time - No news on Millwall away travel, and rumours that the Club might not even be running this unless they can guarantee numbers - Reports that people are ringing up to buy tickets but are facing impossibly long queues and waiting times. Somehow I suspect this is a supply issue rather than demand. - No comments from our CEO who has said barely a word this year - No new signings of any description

Too much effort. The club seems to want to avoid any hassle in anything it does. So little pride. There will be non league outfits producing match programmes yet Blackburn Rovers in the Championship can't be arsed. If it is too much effort to produce a programme what else are they dodging?

Derby are favourites for relegation because Mel Morris is desperate to get shut of them and has scaled back all his funding after 4-5 years of huge spending and failure to get promoted. He's also had health issues. They've had at least 2 takeovers fall through, so he's doing the bare minimum to keep them ticking over until a takeover gets sorted. All sounds very familiar to what is going on here except he's man enough to admit he's had enough and is trying to get out and sell them, whereas we are stuck with Venkys and their suicidal management of the club and they won't let us go. They've also got a safety net of 20,000 fans a week turning up and won't be selling off their academy. Yes i do want Mowbray out. Of course I should have started my post by saying the first thing we should have done going into the summer was to remove this management team and then back a new manager. The cost of relegation to League One is greater than any FFP sanction. A transfer embargo would be no worse than what we have now - which seems to be a self imposed embargo. We could live with an embargo if before it we stocked the squad up with good players on solid contracts that we could sell if needed. We can't do that at the moment because we've allowed our assets to run their contracts down. Nothing has been learned.

Just my view but I would rather spend this summer on the reinforcements we need to ensure we can at least survive in the Championship, and deal with any consequences of overspending next summer when we have assets on the books we can sell in a better climate than not spend anything under the guise of FFP rules, get relegated and then be really stuffed. Forget about points deductions - they don't happen for overspending - see Derby, Reading, QPR. And before anyone says 'Sheffield Wednesday' their points deduction was for fiddling their accounts to try and avoid trouble. This is of course assuming that FFP is the reason we aren't spending. I think it is more likely Venkys have just spent enough and are fed up again so nothing can happen. If FFP is the issue then again I raise why Millwall, PNE, Barnsley, Luton and just about everyone else in this divison can compete, outperform us with much lower losses and avoid FFP trouble. Mismanagement is the word. Does anyone pay the price for this and get sacked?

I expect us to get a result here. Probably a score draw and an entertaining match which will then have folk out thinking all is well with the world and Mowbray has answered his critics. Swansea, along with Derby and ourselves, are perhaps the crisis clubs at this moment in time and we need a win. The sole ambition for this season is to get to 50 points

Spot on, excellent summary. Very sad to read but I feel much the same way. I have relented and renewed, but i am not looking forward to the season and I have had a choice to make this summer, for the first time in my life, as to whether i was going to renew or not (previously there would have been no choice at all to think about). I wrote to the Club in early July and have had a short email back saying that it had been recieved and someone would get back to me. No other response. This just sums up the operation to me - they can't even be bothered to respond to fans concerns. The main reason for my decision to renew was nothing to do with the football or supporting the club, but because my friend wanted to renew, the third member of our group decided he wasn't renewing so I felt I needed to keep things going and not let my mate down. Interest is waning all around and this is a dangerous path to go down.