New contracts spread over 3 or 4 years will barely make a dint in FFP calculations. The point of course is that the financial consequences and damage caused to FFP calculations of giving these players improved terms is chicken feed compared to the costs of losing them for nothing or millions less than their worth and then subsequently having to bring in an alternative (transfer fee, signing on fee, wages, agents fee). Very silly to suggest that not giving out new deals is some sort of cunning plan to ensure FFP compliance. It just means we have to allocate our resources down the line to replacing these players at considerable expense and difficulty The world carries on spinning. To suggest that the entire football world is in hibernation doing nothing until normality resumes is incorrect. Middlesbrough have renewed half their squad on new deals. Accy Stanley have granted new deals! There's really no more to it than we are a shambles of an operation. As I say it wouldn't happen at a club genuinely concerned about FFP or its asset base. But I don't think that has ever been anything but a convenient excuse here.

Why would Mowbray be publicly telling the owners that we need to work to get these players tied down to new deals if those deals were already being worked on? Wouldn't it be more accurate just to say that negotiations are taking place and that the owners will back new deals for their players? Instead the distinct impression from Mowbray's comments is that we haven't even started the process as the owners haven't sanctioned it.

I would have preferred a draw from Stoke v Cardiff and for Watford to not have won but other than that a decent night with points dropped for Swansea, Bournemouth and Stoke. Tomorrow is an opportunity to push on through the famous ceiling by beating a team above us. Not much in it with the teams behind us - the likes of Huddersfield, Cardiff and Luton in particular in decent form and not far behind us.

The 12 month options are not satisfactory alternatives. They are not the same as agreeing contract extensions and invoking them does not solve the situation, only kicks it down the road for another few months and ensures the worst case doesn't happen. Short termism at it's finest. Activate a clause to avoid disaster but actually only push the player nearer to the exit by making him feel even less valued. What club in their right minds would activate a 12 month option on a player of Dack's importance rather than get him secured into a 3-4 year deal? I know if it was me and the club told me that they were activating the extension and keeping me for another 12 months on the same terms as at present rather than offering me a better and longer deal I wouldn't be impressed. Far from it I'd be asking myself just how serious they were about keeping me and my colleagues and building forward. All the while agents and rivals whispering and telling him to look after himself for the season then get a hefty signing on fee in a year's time on a free transfer. I would envisage a Messi style scenario where the player accepts he's staying for another 6-12 months but has one eye on next summer and a likely exit when the club doesn't have the power any more. Look around and there aren't many clubs who do this sort of thing, certainly not to their best players. They anticipate things a couple of years before the iceberg arrives and take action to avoid it. We seem to just be heading straight for the iceberg, keep on going, but take some consolation in the fact we've a life boat to use when we get there. Great we might not drown because of it but the ship still sinks and we've left bobbling around in the ocean with not much left.

Its a fact he is out of contract in the summer. So unless that changes he won't be staying, even if he wants to. It's also fair to assume that if we can't even be bothered to offer him improved terms then he won't fancy hanging around. What are we waiting for exactly?

Anyone else get the impression that we are just coming to the end of another Venky cycle? That this season is make or break insofar as our immediate future is concerned, that the money taps will be turned down again to a trickle after this season if we don't achieve promotion? Remember Bowyer got 2.5 years at it in the Championship, decent backing for players and wasn't forced to sell anyone during that time. Then when it became clear we weren't going to do it in year 3 he was binned off and we cut costs right back for a couple of years. This summer was their 'big push' as they didn't force any sales, allowed some decent loans and frees to come into the club in the hope it would get us up. Review in the summer and see how it has gone but until then no more. I'm only speculating but this would perhaps be the only logical explanation for the complete inertia and lack of interest in securing these lads down to new deals. They've no interest nor intention of dealing with these issues because their plans only go as far as this summer and beyond that everything depends on where we are, where their businesses are and how they feel when it is summit meeting time. They ain't going to commit to long term contracts, salary increases and increased expenditure when they can get a load more off the wage bill come the summer if they feel that way inclined. We all know it is stupidity and senseless but I'm not sure they do, or even care about that. Reading Mowbray's press comments it seems he feels he needs to regularly remind them of the importance of players being under long term contracts yet they don't seem to be taking any interest in it. Where does Waggott fit into all this? A Chief Executive tasked with balancing the books and growing the clubs assets would be on the phone daily pressing for answers and authorisation yet here he sits worrying about how many Platinum Club tickets he can flog for an extra £200 whilst Mowbray is the one banging the drum on contracts. If we lose Nyambe, JRC, Rothwell, Dack or Armstrong for nothing or knock down fees then everything they've talked about over the last 3 years has been shown to be meaningless, because a club run properly and conscious of income and assets would not allow this to happen.

Who was the last senior player to sign up to a long term deal? I recall in the months after promotion there was a spate of renewals including Mulgrew, Bennett, Smallwood and Evans. I think Travis maybe since then but expect he was on a low level deal not befitting of his place in the side and that needed sorting. Anyone else? I can't think of any through the whole of 2019 or 2020. Bizarre really. I wonder if it is complacency or policy not to do it? The pandemic is just an excuse. Hasnt stopped others from doing new deals nor did it stop us committing substantial amounts to deals and loans over the summer.

I agree it is very worrying What concerns me also is that even pre pandemic there had been very little by way of senior players being tied down to long term contracts. To suggest that everything was hunky dory on that front before the pandemic is nonsense. If we had been on the ball with things then assets the calibre of Dack, Armstrong and Nyambe would all have had new terms this last year, months before the pandemic arrived and Dack got injured. Another concern which Mowbray needs challenging on is how he said over the summer window that he had factored in contract extensions to his budget and had those costs in mind when deciding how to approach his transfer targets. If true that suggests that he has approached his entire recruitment strategy with these contract extensions in mind. To then turn around in December, a few weeks before the January window, and blame the pandemic and the hit to income for not renewing those deals I think is a complete cop out. We are back into Venky paradox territory here. We supposedly have incredibly wealthy owners happy to bankroll substantial losses for little in return yet they don't have the gumption, foresight or sense to recognise the cost implications of losing these players for nothing. Its going to come back to bite them, and us, on the arse big style. Like I say, if that's the gamble they want to take, and they want to run the risk of missing out on tens of millions in transfer fees, then so be it. Its them out of pocket, not me. But when their stooge Waggott comes along every few months whinging about no money and FFP problems then I will question what the hell we are playing at allowing contracts of prized assets to run down. I will also question the entire point of the academy and investing in youth policy. Why bother with the initial investment, time, energy and perseverance with young players only to now get to a stage where they are doing the business in the first team and we risk flushing that investment down the toilet and get nothing back for it. To say their first business was selling Phil Jones for big money you'd have expected this lesson to have been learned by now.

Interesting that Middlesbrough and Brentford to name two have successfully concluded multiple contracts with first team players during the pandemic. Excuse after excuse. A month from now it will be more of the same. The pandemic didn't stop him from giving contracts to Pears and Downing. Nor will it stop rivals from coming sniffing for players in January.

The issue with Nyambe is that if we had managed the situation proactively and properly then we would have him tied down to a 2-4 year contract right now. The conversation about selling him then becomes radically different, because we would stand to rake in some decent cash which could arguably be used to reinvest elsewhere. At that point we could discuss the financial and sporting merits of offloading him. As it stands we will be forced to sell him for no reason other than we will be desperate to avoid him leaving on a free transfer come the summer. Footballing decisions go out of the window and whatever small fee we get will be nigh on impossible to get better than him for. It is a failure of strategy because it is likely to cost the club several million pounds in a transfer fee. We have allowed this situation to creep up on us just like we have with JRC, Rothwell and Dack. The owners should be sorting this out yet they seem quite relaxed about the situation. Then again they let Josh King and Ben Marshall do similar so must not be bothered about it. I just hope people remember these things when we get the FFP excuses and sob stories from Waggott about having no money.

Can't happen. Red or nothing. The fact he was already on a yellow shouldn't be any relevance to the appeal whatsoever. Shouldn't being the key word.

Looks like we have appealed Lenihan's red card and will discover today if he is available for tomorrow. Well done to Rovers for doing so. Just hope we've put together some good footage for the appeal rather than a half hearted attempt.

The point about the possibility of the club having 1 year options on players isn't really much of a reassurance. Players know when clubs are serious about keeping them. They will expect to feel wanted and expect the club to be making serious efforts to tie them down long term e.g. 3-5 year contracts. The 1 year option is little more than a safety net to be used in emergency to avoid a player walking for nothing. Said player is likely to sulk and be unhappy about the situation and spend a year waiting for his move. It is short termism and risky. If it isn't sorted quickly these guys will be off for next to nothing. Then Waggott will have to put another £50 on season tickets to cover the shortfall

All of what you put forward on Mowbray here may well be true. But I don't judge a manager on how players develop or what their theoretical transfer values are. I judge a manager first on results and league positions. Mowbray has a lot of work to do to persuade me that he is capable of hauling us to 6th or higher never mind keep us there. For me this season so far has been a rehash of previous years. Some nice football, impressive results, yet inconsistencies, perennial mid table position, always a few results away from getting there. This is Mowbray's finished product and vision. I'm not sure why he deserves longer at it if we don't deliver this season. If your vision for the club is to be the nearly men, develop players and play nice football then we can stick at it but I want to see evidence that we are making serious progress towards promotion. I look at O'Neill at Stoke as an example of how a top manager operates and expect Hughton will do similar for Forest next season.

I don't agree. I don't remember myself or anyone seriously suggesting that Hughton would transform Forest from the bottom 3 to top 6 within a season. I thought it was a sensible appointment and still do, I think he will keep them up with distance to spare and if given a fair crack at it will have them in the top 6 next season. The question is whether the unpredictable people at Forest will allow him that. I don't think he is overestimated. His accomplishments at this level with 3 different clubs and no blemish on his CV suggests he is a very effective manager at this level. Is Mowbray under estimated? Maybe. I think most agree he has done well here but the elephant in the room is our inability to get any higher than 7th or 8th before slipping back again. Only when he breaks through that ceiling and looks like keeping us there for more than an odd weekend will those doubts begin to disappear. Styles of play are completely irrelevant. A good manager finds a way to win and finish at the top of the league rather than sticking to principles and ending up mid table. I think we overlook how good Mowbray has had it here. Warnock and Hughton are mere months into inheriting shambolic situations at their clubs and have had to firefight from the off. Mowbray is approaching 4 years here and has had free reign over every aspect of the club and substantial backing throughout. To be one point above Warnock's Boro side to me isn't a cause to put the bunting and balloons out. It says more about how well Warnock has sorted them out. The pressure should be on here. If Mowbray isn't going to break the glass ceiling now then when? Do we just persist until he hopefully does it one day or decide that after 3 attempts it isnt going to happen?

Pretty sure they can't do that. They can't not overturn a red on the basis it would have been a second yellow. They have to look at the incident in isolation and consider if the 'offence' (I'm not even sure it was that) was worthy of a straight red card. Yellow doesn't come into the equation. It's either a red or nothing. I will be very disappointed if Rovers don't even bother to appeal. If that appeal fails then so be it but given the situation we are in with people missing and the debatable nature of the incident it has to at least be appealed and cannot be suggested that it is frivolous.

I think it is a bit early for that sort of talk. Mowbray is doing well at the moment but he has had time and resources here that neither Warnock or Hughton have had close to at their current clubs. Warnock has turned Boro from relegation candidates to play off chasers in one transfer window without spending much. Hughton been at Forest a matter of a couple of months and has inherited a shambles. If he is given time he will have Forest up there but for now they're a mess and need to get enough together to survive. If I was a gambling man I'd put money on either Forest or Boro getting in the play-offs before Rovers do.

We should be at an advantage to the likes of Burnley. Bigger club, a history of PL football to call upon, already have the training ground, academy, stadium whereas they didn't when they went up. Dare I say it we also have owners with the resources to keep us up whereas they never have had.

This is how the game goes. Based on three things where people cobble it together and before anything happens West Ham are interested and it spreads like wildfire. West Ham are short up front = they will be in the market for a goalscorer. Some 'ITK' bloke runs a story suggesting they might be having a look at him. Moyes has a recent history for going after Championship players having signed Benrahma from Brentford, Hugill from Preston and Jarod Bowen from Hull in the last couple of years. Roll all those things into one and combine with the gossip column Nixon types and we're in for a long December and January. I give it a fortnight before the buffoons at the Lancashire Telegraph are rolling with this 'story' and then everyone takes it as gospel that he's off to West Ham. Sadly as said above we might have already missed the boat through being too slow on this one. No club in their right minds would allow a player like Armstrong to be entering the final 18 months of his deal - he should have been signed up to a 4-5 year bumper deal at the start of the year and then we could relax knowing we have £25 million coming our way if anyone wants him. Now it will be very different. Can apply the same issue to Nyambe, Dack, Rankin Costello albeit on a smaller scale.

Suppose it stops hundreds of folk from Blackburn and Accy jumping on a bus down to Clitheroe or Whalley to hit the pubs.

Brentford won 3, drawn 3 and lost 1 of their league games at home this season. That defeat was a collapse against Preston having been 2-0 up. Having said that their wins have come against QPR, Coventry and Huddersfield with draws v Middlesbrough, Norwich and Swansea which tends to suggest they struggle against the better sides but find enough to dispatch the weaker ones. All things done I'll be satisfied with a point here but really if we mean serious business above play off flirtation we need to get some wins against tough teams.

I've bought a pack for the novelty. Bit of a con and rip off but don't mind as a one off.

Five or more points from the next 9 I'd be delighted with. 3 or 4 points would probably see us through the tough block intact and if we were to draw all 3 it would keep confidence flowing, but wouldn't be ideal as teams will pull away from us if we do that. Certainly need to be looking to win the home games no matter who the opposition - Luton have just shown that Norwich are very much beatable.

We're in 'the zone' now. Good run, momentum, positivity building and within striking distance of the top 6 and even top 2. I hope, and pray, that it isn't another case of hitting the glass ceiling before a death spiral over 3-4 games sends us dropping down the division again. We need to see something now to believe this isn't just like the last 2 seasons where as soon as we get into these good positions we are able to kick on and progress rather than it unravel again.

Huge win which I am delighted with. Armstrong worth his weight in gold as I doubt anyone else would have popped up and put that away. In similar fashion to Barnsley I am relieved and very happy to have come through with all 3 points despite arguably not deserving them and at times not looking like getting them. But having match winners in the side is very useful. Millwall perhaps surprised me with their ambition especially in the first half. I suspect they were trying to emulate the Barnsley approach. Second half they were more cagey but we never really looked like converting possession into chances and goals. They are a tough side to beat so credit for that. Rowett fuming on the touchline is always a good indicator that you've done him over. They'll whinge about the referee. I accept that just before their goal Lenihan got very lucky after it struck his arm and late on he was lucky again running around in the penalty area with his hand above his head. But they got away with 2-3 blatant bookable offences including the one which caused Brereton's serious injury so it evens out. I can't accept that the victory was enabled by the referee.