Calm down, it's only a message board! (to borrow a quote from someone). I honestly don't care what sort of clothes you wear, as I made clear in my subsequent post. I whole-heartedly endorse and support your right to wear whatever the hell you like, as I also made clear (although obviously not clear enough). If you can't cope with a little adverse criticism of your taste in fashion why publicise that taste on a public forum? You have the right to think you look great in your "designer" clothes, I have the right to think you don't. Simple as. As for debating the entire thing in private, why bother? My position is that, in my opinion, "casual" fashion looks rubbish, but that's besides the point. The pertinent point with regard to the wider debate on this thread is that those who decide to adopt casual attire are, on one level or another, identifying with "casual" culture. Casual culture has long been associated with hooliganism. Therefore it is unsurprising if those that wear casual fashion are (rightly or wrongly) stereotyped by some as being potential hooligans. Sorry, that's life. There seem to be two different points here, and I'm not sure which you are taking issue with. Is it the fact that I think that "casual" fashion looks rubbish which upsets you, or the fact that people associate casual fashion with hooliganism? If it's the former, tough luck, I'm as entitled to an opinion as the next man. If it's the latter then address the issue instead of having a go at the messenger.

Why exactly? Because I disagree with your taste in clothes? Come back when you are capable of holding a reasoned discussion without resorting to name-calling. Or just don't come back.

You can read all about Cercle Brugge on their website, here. At the moment they have Jerome Watt and Paul Weaver on loan, and according to the English language match reports, both are featuring for their reserve team (although they are described as first team squad players).

Abs, even if my post was 100% serious there is still a valid point to be made. People judge others on their appearance, that's just a fact of life. People also use their clothes as a means of making a statement about themselves, be it their lifestyle choice, sporting allegiance, musical tastes or whatever. If you are going to wear clothes associated with the "casual scene" you have to remember that those clothes, and the scene with which they are associated, hold negative connotations for a great many people. For all those of you who wear Burburry, Von Dutch, etc. please don't think I am telling you not to - you can wear stretch pink lycra and tell everyone you are the only gay in the village if it floats your boat, fashion is a personal thing after all. All I am saying is that if you dress in the "uniform" of the football hooligan, you can hardly complain if you are mistaken for one every now and again.

All the Von Dutch boys may not be gay but "the Von Dutch boys" sounds very gay indeed. If you want to dress up like a chav when you go to Ewood, don't be suprised if you get mistaken for a chav - seems pretty logical to me. We all say, don't want to be alone, we wear the same clothes 'cause we feel the same..." Of course the real irony is that all these idiots buy their ridiculously overpriced identikit tat from a shop called Originals.

Can't believe Rockstar aren't releasing the PC version in tandem with it's console equivalent. I know it's all down to the terms of their arrangement with Sony, but Vice City on PC was much better than PS2, if only for the MP3 player and no auto aim. Looks like I will have to wait another few months before I start ripping up San Andreas.

EDIT

Capt. Kayos prepares to drive to work.

Oh dear, handbags at ten paces anyone? To MGP or not to MGP, that is the question. I would sooner see Jemal in there to be honest, he seems to be doing the stuff for the reserves. Maybe I should found a useless society to lobby for his inclusion in the team.

Think of The Stone Roses, then remove any shred of originality or invention. Hey Presto! you are now imagining the sound of Kasabian. Sorry, but that is just a lazy view of what is one of the albums of the decade. Also one of the finest live acts I've seen in a long time ( and I've seen the lot!) Lazy perhaps, but it does contain a grain of truth. Most of the bands knocking around today are pale imitations of their musical forebears. Kasabian, Keane, Snow Patrol, Coldplay, Muse, The Darkness, The Strokes, whoever. You name it and it's been done before, by someone infinitely more talented. What I hate most about the modern music scene is the lack of invention displayed by new bands, a symptom of the vogue for all things retro and recycled which afflicts the whole spectrum of popular culture (be it music, films, books, etc.). Those artists who continue to plough their own lonely furrow of artistic invention (the likes of the Super Furry Animals, Mercury Rev, The Beastie Boys - to name three off the top of my head) have all been around forever, and all have a sound that is uniquely theirs. The new darlings of the "alternative" scene seem content to churn out a never ending stream of MTV friendly, indie-lite elevator muzak, or so it seems to my ears. I dunno; punk is dead, dance is dead, what comes next? This is all just my opinion of course, but there you go. Damn. I think I just got old.

Think of The Stone Roses, then remove any shred of originality or invention. Hey Presto! you are now imagining the sound of Kasabian.

After a night of heavy drinking, Paul forgets where he left his bike.

Without wanting to set a trend, I think we might lose this one.

I agree entirely Glenn, a lot of it is down to apathy, but I think there are other contributory factors as well. Firstly there is the "nothing to do with me" mentality wich pervades some sections of the support; the idea that it's just a few scallies misbehaving and they bring it upon themselves. I would take issue with this. If the likes of Paul and other posters who have tried to remonstrate with over officious stewards can be threatened with ejection from the ground, then it is a problem for every single fan attending any given match. Secondly there is an organisational question. Much as I hate to praise anything to do with ManUre, and much as I disagree with their tactics, the Manchester United Supporters Association were able to block Murdoch's attempts to take control of their club through coherent, planned action. We have no such group that I am aware of. The fans forum seems to exist at the whim of the club, insofar as the timetable for their meetings is set by the club rather than the fans (as far as I can tell from Kiwiwannabe's post - apologies if I am incorrect). It is also difficult to know whom to direct any complaints towards, especially if you are not au fait with the heirachy at Ewood. Regarding the specifics of the incident on Saturday, I am in the other corner of the BBE so I can only go from the second hand reports which have appeared on here, but it seems grossly unfair that one set of fans should be punished and the other let off scot free (if that is what happened). The wider issue of over zealous stewarding is one which should be of concern to all Rovers fans (and indeed the club itself, given the recent slump in support). The vast majority of Rovers fans are decent, hard working people. We shouldn't accept being treated like children (at best) or criminals (at worst) every Saturday simply because we want to watch a game of football.

The box was the third one in from the Jack Walker side of the Blackburn End. Thinking that the first was empty The second had the kids drawing on the window (and Stuart Caley for part of the second half) And the third being the muppets. Thanks for that. I think I know who's box it is.... Don't know how I am going to broach the subject of our Corporate guests acting like complete tw*ts in our box to the M.D. of our company. Seen as though I am pretty sure that the MD will have been there whilst they were doing the above....... My advice, dont bother. IF our club decide to take action let them do it. Do that and nothing will change. Right now the club are part of the problem, and unless the fans alter the clubs way of thinking they are unlikely to become part of the solution anytime soon. I don't know what your company does Sysagent, but surely they are alienating potential customers by allowing this situation to develop. If you don't want to approach your MD personally (which is perfectly understandable) PM me your company address and I will write to him myself. By doing nothing we are tacitly enabling the club to treat us, the fans, like dirt at the moment. The same applies with regard to stewarding. If the behaviour of the head steward is at issue then it is up to us to rectify things. Without wanting to politicise this messageboard, it seems to me to be the perfect place to mobilise support on this issue. With no official ties to the club, this board has always been of the fans, by the fans, for the fans. If enough of us were to voice our discontent with this individual then the club would be forced to act. If we continue to wallow in our apathy then the club will go on blithely pretending that nothing is wrong, and we will only have ourselves to blame for enabling them to do so.

There is perspective and then there is perspective Jonny. Personally I don't give two hoots about the "stand up / sit down" debate - I stand when it gets exciting and sit down the rest of the time along with everyone else. That isn't the issue at hand though. I am irked by Rovers fans in their own end being harassed by largered up oiks from the safety of their corporate cubes. The fans in the BBE shouldn't have risen to the bait, but the people who created the problem in the first place were allowed to conduct themselves with impunity. If they (the Boro fans in the corporate box) had infiltrated the BBE proper they would have been ejected in nought seconds flat. Instead they got to sit back and laugh at the whole scene from the comfort of their padded chairs.

Surely the company which leases the box in question should be brought to book. They allowed a bunch of drunken smoggies to goad the fans directly in front of them in the BBE, resulting in a potentially dangerous situation. Put another way, it seems to me that the Boro "fans" in the corporate box incited a response from the supporters in the BBE, and disorder then followed. Incitement to disorder is a criminal offence, as is facilitating such incitement. Does anyone know, or have any way of finding out, to whom the box belonged?

Cynic: 1: A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue. A person adhering to such beliefs. 2: A person who believes that, contrary to the tennets of the Cynic philosophy, much of human behaviour is motivated by self interest. Yeah, that's us, cynics. If you are going to use long words when you insult us for having the timerity to hold an opinion, you could at least do us the courtesy of looking them up first. P.S. What match were you watching today?

Not me, but he could probably still teach our defenders a couple of things.

You weren't the bloke behind me were you? I had to hurdle the turnstile to get out, and there was already a queue forming to do the same when I left. Previously my optimism has kept me in place right until the death, hoping against hope for a miraculous late turn around (even though it invariably never happens) but today I was just thinking "I'm cold, I'm miserable, and this lot could play till next weekend and still not score. Why am I bothering?". If I had wanted to see a bunch of clowns I'd have gone to the circus.

No he didn't. Tugay went through the back of the player with both feet. As he was already on a yellow he should have showed a bit more common sense, especially as he was challenging for a nothing ball in the middle of the pitch. The second yellow was fully justified (whatever your opinion of the first) and Tugay knew it. The players on the pitch lost us the match today, not the ref, the fans, lady sodding luck or anyone else, and to say otherwise is scapegoating plain and simple.

In twenty odd years of following Rovers I have never left Ewood before the final whistle, until today, but as soon as the third Boro goal went in, I walked. Even when we had eleven men on the pitch we never looked like scoring, but as soon as Tugay was sent off only two questions remained - how long till Boro scored and how many they would beat us by. Tugay was an absolute disgrace, the first yellow (for deliberate handball) may have been questionable, but the the challenge for the second was cynical, petulant and completely unneccesary, leaving the ref no option at all. The ten individuals left on the pitch (I will not call them a team) were hardly any better, with the exception of Djorkaeff (sp?) not one of them looked in the least bit interested in the farce going on around them. If they weren't willing to play football (and today they quite clearly weren't) then I wasn't willing to give them my support. Flog the lot of them, replace them with shop dummies, whatever. None of them are fit to wear the shirt anyway. Barring a miracle we will be playing Championship football next season, and from today's showing it is exactly what we deserve.

If they do could you fill the rest of us in too? This thread has been baffling me all morning.

Man, this has just made a crap day a lot better. I'll be there. The Poppies were fantastic ! But DefCon One is better than Bulletproof. Yep, lots of good PWEI tracks. I think I'll be listening to the "Cure of Sanity" tonight for the first time in ages. The intro to that album and the track "Dance of the Mad B@St@rds" are great! PWEI were a much under-rated band at the time, Wise Up Suckers in particular is a great album (Cicciolina, Wake Up Time To Die, Def Con One, etc.) A little jaunt to London may be in the offing for me too. At the moment I am catching up on albums I have missed over the last couple of years; just bought "Now & Them" by Freeland, which is excellant, and "Signals" by Silencer on the basis of "Rollin 'N' Controllin".

I miss lofty's contributions. He was clearly as mad as a sack full of angry badgers, but his insanity had a certain endearing quality to it. I don't care about this thread one way or the other to be honest, it all seems very tedious. I don't know if that is a fact or just an opinion mind you. Bring back lofty!