Why does it look like some sort of cardboard cut out is self-harming in the background? Had Joe Pesci just told him he would be paying him a visit tonight, with a vice?

You thought that because he absolutely was. That was exactly when he showed he was the best in the world at that time.

Yeh Duff was unquestionably still world class at Chelsea. I always feel he was slightly better here, injuries robbing him of a tiny bit of his edge, but I'm biased. But we are only talking the difference between being the absolute best LW in the world with us and being one of the top 3 or so after.

Problem being that still puts him in the 11...

On the world class discussion, only been the following since the Prem started, who were just full on undisputable world class players that have played for us. Shearer Friedel Duff There's an argument for Tugay, and his technique certainly was. After that you can only say some players had some world class attributes, as some have mentioned, rather than being all around world class. It's not an easy title to earn (or shouldn't be). For me it more or less means you can get in the starting 11 of nearly any team in the world. None of our current crop, talented and promising as they are, have the possibility of becoming world class as far as I can see. Slight possible exception of Dolan just because his tricks are unreal, but he has a very long way to go yet. Shame we never signed Lewandowski btw, then I could have added another to the list.

Yeh I didn't mean I personally expect it to happen (unless it's with a promoted Rovers) but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Seems a hard working type and that means his game should improve for a few years yet.

JRC is decent, has potential, could become a Premier League player in time maybe. He doesn't have an ice cube in hell's chance of becoming 'world class'.

JRC is decent, has potential, could become a Premier League player in time maybe. He doesn't have an ice cube in hell's chance of becoming 'world class'.

Yes I know not all of us, I didn't mean that. And I did look it up, I posted the link to the topic and yours was one of the comments I read before doing so.

No. Hoilett left on a free. The others left for compensation fees after expiry. And nobody is having a meltdown, they're just contesting the false claims about how we never lose important players out of contract. The current regime under TM has been fairly good for it though, so far. Only Mahoney lost in this way. Next summer will be a serious test of that though, it's a lot of players that we use, to go out of contract at once. The Nyambe deal only being 2 years was a disgrace though. Which actually makes me about 50% confident that we actually have an extension option in there.

More than a couple. It wasn't universal outrage, but you're definitely exaggerating or misremembering that one. No, he wasn't a key player. I'd say that as a young player who was starting to show good potential and like he was ready to kick on especially at League One level, it was what I'd consider an asset you need to be protecting. Far less so than Nyambe granted, who you don't seem to rate, which may or may not be because the manager wrongly dropped him a few times. Hoilett left us in 2012. King, who was another I'd considered an asset you want to protect, and clearly correctly, left us more recently than that after contract expiry.

I'm not grasping in the slightest. There were quite a lot of annoyed fans. I was one of them. The word was our offer to him was fairly derisory too. His level of success afterwards is immaterial, it was a blow at the time. Luckily he hasn't gone on to all that much since.

Without actually being a lawyer of course...only if there was something in the contract we had breached, or there was a serious circumstance where we had let the player down. If it was just something like he was told we would be in the Prem by now then he should have put that as a condition of the extension. Neill only did what he was 100% entitled to do contractually, as annoying as it was. If you were right, there'd be successful legal challenges to get out of contracts all the time. I vaguely remember some attempts, but no successes that weren't contingent on contractual agreements. Even if you're right, Dack doing that after Mowbray revived his career and helped keep him out of jail? Nah not buying that.

We were fairly annoyed at the time to lose Mahoney that way.

Only had a year left on his deal, but still...considering a year or two ago they agreed a 700k Euros deal with Olympiakos, it sure is kind. Amongst other likely clauses I think we can expect to lose a large percent of any future transfer fee though, so if he turns out to be brilliant we might not feel they were so kind! I wonder if that was their thinking, that nobody has much money right now and they risk losing him for nowt in a year, but in England he will have higher profile exposure and might sell for a few million...of which they can take a large slice. Dunno.

No need to be rude about Leicester's players.

He signed his agreement to it, so yes, you can. It's not against their will, they willingly consented to the clause.

Yes, nothing. I'm not joking. 'No initial fee'. Which implies future fees dependent on targets. Or potentially a guaranteed payment in future perhaps (like when crowds return maybe?)

We aren't there with all the x, y and z I wanted either, but the main thing missing for me is the LB. We get a decent one in there and I'm pretty content. There are still holes in the squad after that, but I don't think there's a club in the league where everyone is happy with their squad and wouldn't improve it, nor is there ever until promotion is secured (then it's onto where needs strengthening in the Prem). A second prolific striker would be nice, but the Rudy n Rhodes days showed 2 of those doesn't guarantee you jack. Hopefully Dack can come back with a bunch of goals too anyway. So I'm wondering what was your x, y and z? Until Travis got injured I only really wanted a GK, CB, LB, then backup GK and backup CB. I've decided I'm fine with William's and our youngsters to collectively cover the backup CB, partly as I didn't think we would be getting an experienced top end Championship CB in his prime like we have. So all we are shy is the LB. Then my hopes were only ever in 'getting greedy but if we can manage it's territory, for a classy attacker, and Dolan will do for me if he keeps it up. You say he was a bonus and not meant for the first team, true but we have him now regardless of intent and he is mint. The discussion was only about if the squad is stronger, so it wouldn't matter if the government had mandated that he joined us and the club had protested heartily against it.

It's more the 4th tier isn't it? Although described as the third tier, if you get promoted you go to Segunda Division B, and you need to get promoted from that to reach Segunda Division, then from that to reach La Liga. That's what I gathered from my quick check. LT described it as 4th tier too.

You ask that, but then you've cited factors that were present last season. You correctly show those areas haven't strengthened at this point, but I don't think this is the way to answer your question, as you've asked if we are stronger, not if we have fixed all our problems. The way to answer it is to first compare the players we have lost to the players we have gained. Obviously to a degree this is impossible and would be nearly every window, as they were mostly unknowns to us, and it's early. But so far I'd say: Kaminski looks better than Walton. The Greek kid sounds and looks higher calibre than the Canadian. Ayala, the most known quantity, is a better defender than Tosin, but less technically gifted. I'd call that one equal, maybe a slight win since conceding was our main problem, and Kaminski's distribution may make up for Tosin's loss to a degree. Dolan brings more to our attack, under the new system, than DG (at his end) was able to. Potentially a lot lot more, especially as DG wouldn't have suited this system the same, but we will see over time as with all of them. That's about as like-for-like as I can go with the 'replacements' (not that Dolan was meant to be one). I think in terms of players in for players gone, we are better off from what we can tell so far, but obviously that view could change over time. On top of that though, we are down Cunningham who only lasted a few games, Samuel for extra attacking cover, Downing who was a regular for us all season and some thought possibly our best player. And Smallwood and Hart who had become complete non-entities. There's been an argument that Downing slowed our play down, and I can see it, especially with the current approach. He was versatile though and a tidy, reliable player in a few roles. He's a miss for our squad options for sure, although JRC has replaced him and Bennett as the chief utility player. JRC doesn't have that experience though and will make youthful mistakes. We also had JRC last season... Which brings me onto my last point in answering that question. We have a very young squad and they're all a year older than they were last year. In theory this probably makes them better, since very few are passing their peak years yet. I reckon that compensates for the slight loss of squad depth after the new guys vs old guys comparison I started with. As well as new players potentially emerging from a very promising academy. The ones in the first team could be a bigger boon though - Travis' injury is a big blow mind. But we now have the possibility of a red-hot Arma all season instead of just the start of it. Dack stands to be injured for less of the season than last, but that's not guaranteed and regaining form could take time. Rothwell and the older head of Holtby are looking more like they've found their roles too, but it's early. Overall I do think our squad looks stronger in quality than last season. However, it probably has a bit less depth, which could be exposed by injuries. The system looks better, too. Frankly if we sign the left back and he's decent I'll be reasonably pleased with how we stand relative to last season, and hopeful of a playoff push as long as Arma stays fit, which you're right, could cripple us if he doesn't. It would have if it had happened in January last time too though. Could do with a quality loan til January to fill the Travis hole, mind, but finances may not allow.

Not talking about no discussion though Joe. Just no pointless aggression, no circular debates for 90 posts where neither side just accepts the other person simply isn't going to change their views, etc. I have the odd extended debate here like anyone does, but personally I tend to get bored long before it reaches the extents some posters regularly indulge in. But in particular, I'm talking about the way the two 'camps' (not that they're a unified movement or anything obviously, but you know what I mean) have to snipe at each other about whether they're being negative or positive. It would also be nice if more posters could, like I feel you do, see the negatives and positives in things instead of insisting on seeing it all as darkness or all as light. But that is really dreaming, as some people just have a mindset. I'm probably dreaming with either request, but still. It actually would be fine if it was as you described, just people discussing, but it isn't. Theres far too much tedious 'stop being negative' etc. Just bores me when it gets too pervasive, personally. This post won't change anything generally though, would be nice if some people thought about their approach though. And don't get me wrong, it's civil compared to many corners of the internet, but still. We all support the same club and want the same things.

I don't understand how half the conversations on here have to end up being about negativity versus positivity, and those two sides arguing incessantly to point score that everything is either a 'yay Tony/club management' or 'boo Tony/club management'. Dull as dish water tbh. How about people just express their opinion and not have to always charge others down for theirs? Then I woke up.

Christ, imagine getting to choose between those two as manager when you're in the bottom 3 with 0 points.

I was about to post pretty much the same (even how I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it!). Considering a poster on here was saying that a couple of years ago he was lined up to go to Olympiakos for 700k euros.