Even if you're right, you'll more than undo your winnings by betting on us to win 3-0 every week.

He literally showed the odd flash? Ben Bare-ton?

That only further proves what I'm saying. It's harder to get promoted than just finish top 6, so you should get paid out more for promotion. But those odds would pay you out less.

Why would you get less money for betting on promotion than top 6? Given you have to be in the top 6 to have a chance of promotion. Did you mean 14/1 or something?

If we only sign one defender, will you still expect this?

I'm going to put my tin hat on here, as I seem to be a lone voice of dissent. I do think he should go on loan, to League One, for 6 months (though I'd actually send him on a season loan, with the intent of recalling him in Jan, as I think the receiving club would be more likely to play him if they thought they'd get him all season). Why? Despite all the rave reviews, I'm not sure I trust he will get enough game time here. We saw with another great talent in Travis how long it can take for a young lad here to get a break. And now he has Travis in his main position too, as well as Johnson. Smallwood is possibly getting marginalised now, but maybe not - however I can't see Evans being any lower than third choice. There are other more experienced heads who can play there too, and may get wedged there if the main 3/4 are out, due to possibly not fitting elsewhere in the team anymore. There is a lot of competition on the flanks too. I think failing to get a lot of game time could really stagnate his development and hurt his confidence. As we have seen with Nuttall before, it would likely mean he didn't play for the u-23s if he was in the squad. Nuttall went backwards for a while due to too few match minutes when this happened. It took him going back to the u-23s again to recover. I think Buckley could well dominate League One and get the crucial experience of playing against better, stronger, more experienced midfields than in the u-23s. Ready to come back in Jan and truly challenge, with a series of glittering performances added to his CV. It's not that I doubt his ability, it's that I doubt how he will be used given our surplus of players there, and I worry it'll slow his development.

Probably because of all the late goals.

You mean Holt? This guy? Seen here saying he made an arse of himself and didn't mean it like that, and that he's apologised repeatedly? https://mobile.twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/1130166387874381825

Accrington Stanley FC insulted Jack Walker? Or are you referring to some fans?

I know, and I'd agree if he had said he was going out on loan. But he said we will see. We then played a couple more friendlies, and he saw. I think he flip-flops a lot, but I really think there's nothing to see with those comments. He said he was going to make a decision, then he made it, then as you say the lad was unlucky enough to get injured anyway.

Could. He probably impressed him enough in the next two games to have made him decide to keep him here.

City lad in, Nuttall out on loan is my guess.

OK, I've been meaning to do this for a while. I'm going to estimate low-end and high-end possibilities for last summer's window and this one, for both fees and wages. Based on what's been reported, said, or seems the most logical extreme possibility. I don't necessarily believe the 'extreme' versions on any of them, but it should provide a range wherein the remaining budget should fall, beyond too much dispute. Summer 2018 Brereton: 5-8 million fee. 5-15k p/w Rothwell: 100-300k. 3-8k p/w Davenport: 300-500k. 5-10k p/w Armstrong: 1.7-3 million fee. 10-15k p/w Rodwell: Free. 5-15k p/w Lyons: 50k-200k. 1-3k p/w Palmer: Loan fee 0-500k? Wage contribution 10-15k p/w Reed: Loan fee 0-500k? Wage contribution 10-15k p/w Candlin: Who cares. (And since Chapman came in the Jan window, which may or may not be counted when referring to last year's budget, I'll only add the highest realistic figures for him, to the high-end estimate, not adding him to the lowest at all: 500k fee, 10k p/w). Minimum budget: 7.15 million fees, 49k p/w. Total 9.7 million (1 year's worth of wages added) Maximum budget: 13.5 million fees. 106k p/w. Total 19 million. Summer 2019 Gallagher: 4-5 million. 15-20k p/w Johnson: Free. 10-20k p/w Downing: Free. 10-20k p/w Walton: Loan fee 0-500k. 10-15k p/w White: 10-90k (reported as 5-figure fee). 1-2k p/w SOLD Raya: 2.5-3.5 million. 5-10k p/w savings. Minimum spend so far: 4 million fees. 56k p/w. Total: 6.9 million. (Or, assuming maximum recoup for Raya, 2.9 million) Maximum spend so far: 5.5 million fees. 77k p/w. Total: 9.5 million. (Assuming minimum recoup for Raya, 6.75 million) There are also wage savings on other players leaving on frees in each window, but I think I've done enough here for one morning. Obviously this year we've saved Downing, Conway and probably Rodwell's and Gladwin's wages. Last year, Ward, Caddis, Whittingham, Feeney, Ward, Tomlinson. But I'm assuming most or all of these happened or were accounted for before the budget was decided, so I'm leaving them all out for simplicity's sake. We also saved wages a bit on loaning players out through last season, but again this would have been after budgets were spent really. I think the above figures are enough for illustrative purposes. So, in conclusion, our total budget last summer, with the 'flex', was at least 9.7 million. The most we've spent this summer, after Raya, is 6.75 million. This means we should have at least in the region of 2.95 million left to spend on fees and wages, worst case scenario. The most we spent last summer was 19 million. The least we've spent this summer is 2.9 million. This would leave a whopping 16.1 million available to spend, which I think we would all agree is definitely not the case. The truth will be somewhere between these figures. Obviously though, we were only told the budget was 'similar' to last summer, I'd guess it could be a couple million more, or a couple million less. It really is a minefield and a lot of guesswork from us (me in this case), so we probably shouldn't get too hung up on hearing that the budget is similar. Disclaimer: Yes I know these figures are nowhere near definitive, and that there are a lot of other variables like agent fees, signing on fees, etc.

You know what? You're going on ignore. I'm trying to be polite and encourage civility but frankly now, you're being an asshole about it. Amazing you were in the forum update thread saying 'group hug' just yesterday. I've enjoyed a lot of your posts in the past, but in recent times you've become needlessly vitriolic and entrenched, and seem to feel the need to combat almost every single criticism of Mowbray you see, sometimes in farcical ways. I think my messageboard experience will be a lot less irritating without reading through all that. Ta ra.

No, don't be ludicrous, and stop reacting to everything by taking the piss. It will help make the board a less catty place. People might even be more willing to accept your point of view. I just misread your meaning. I thought you were saying 'other clubs and better fans than you don't know'. Apologies for the misinterpretation.

Better fans? That's a bit bloody rude tbh.

Aye. Christ knows how Bury have two CBs worth 2.7 million when they've only just gone up to League One, when a Dack from League One cost 750k. Or how Motherwell have a 3 million quid 31-yr old goalie. I could go on, but basically just a whole lotta nope.

Guess you'd best tell Pep you know better then, since he's sending one of his lads on loan to us it appears.

That's one that could happen, but I don't think it will. Especially in a 5-man midfield. That would most likely mean Bell as a wing-back. I don't think he will start the season with the 5-man midfield experiment (though maybe he'll foolishly think he spies an opportunity against a promoted team...personally I wouldn't, sometimes promoted teams start like a bat out of hell). I think he will play his usual formation. I expect him to start Armstrong, Travis...and hopefully Rothwell. Midfield two will be either Travis and Johnson or Travis and Evans if he doesn't think Johnson is 'up to speed' yet. He slowly moved away from the 'one defensive winger' at the end of last season, and with us being at home to Charlton I think he will probably play two attacking ones. How he has lined up in friendlies suggests that too. I do fear we will see Mulgrew starting, now that Williams is injured. I just can't see him deciding the City lad or any other new centre half is 'ready' that soon after joining, due to his ridiculous bedding in periods. Outside chance of Nyambe playing there instead, with Bennett wedged wide, depends how much he has finally seen through Charlie's shortcomings.

You're pretty much just picking a team you don't want to see (aside from the super obvious starters like Dack). There is zero chance, even under TM, that Smallwood starts at RW. Almost zero chance Jayson starts instead of the new lad. Outside of that, yeh those could start, although I don't think Downing will, and I think he will start Travis. Still wouldn't be the right lineup but more realistic.

Sadly, the most logical conclusion from those three statements combined is that the Gallagher money was part of the initial budget, and that the Raya money is untouched and will be spent...to buy another striker. Considering the murmurings of us still looking at strikers, I worry. Hopefully that's not the case at all and the money will be spent on a quality centre half and/or full back.

No Walton? What is it with our bedding in periods? I get the odd exception like Downing moving his family or someone being grossly unfit, but in the last few years I can't remember us ever playing someone within a couple of days of them signing. Never used to be the case. He is a goalie, just put him in so he can start learning how our awful defence play.

Is this from your source or not?

I've just read that the City lad made his debut in their u-18s when he was just 14! Pretty impressive, although probably also something to do with the fact he's massive.