There is no shift in my position whatsoever. Are you saying you agree with me: Suffice to say keeping communities apart and rolling back integration is not an option except in the warped minds of a few individuals. London (where I spend a considerable portion of my time) is deeply integrated. The list of names of people missing, killed or injured so tragically and randomly thrown together by the killers' bombs shows how global London is. My own immediate family is a mix of Christian, Muslim and Buddhist. Or was there a reason you selectively edited out that part?

Now we have confirmation of suicide bombers, British society faces some stark choices. This can be turned into a Muslim v "Christian" or brown skin v white skin conflagration. The recipes for that are contained in the posts of the people I have already criticised and with that would come untold miseries. Suffice to say keeping communities apart and rolling back integration is not an option except in the warped minds of a few individuals. London (where I spend a considerable portion of my time) is deeply integrated. The list of names of people missing, killed or injured so tragically and randomly thrown together by the killers' bombs shows how global London is. My own immediate family is a mix of Christian, Muslim and Buddhist. MUch better that both the Muslim and non-Muslim communities now recognise the responsibilities each has to each other and to themselves. Just as the trail to the bombers was started by one of the mothers reporting her son as missing to the police so society can undo the radicalisation and alienation of this extremely dangerous minority. There are tensions, hypocricies, and massive imbalances in the second generation communities from the sub-continent that these terror acts will now blow open. Processes which would inevitably have sorted out those issues over decades will now have to be resolved in months or a very few years. The Islamic community will have to face the extreme mullahs as much as the ill-educated imans shipped in from Pakistan as being every bit as much a source of problems as the actively pro-IRA Priests were for the Catholic Church. Britain plc itself will probably have to face the reality that the extreme form of Wahabiism as practised in Saudi Arabia has financed the "Islamic" preaching which indoctrinated these killers. Saudi is Britain's third largest trading poartner outside of the US and Europe and almost single-handedly keeps Britain's high tech arms industry going. No amount of high tech surveillance or repressive security legislation will hide the true source of much of the cancer within the Islamic world which the west has happily supported and traded with to secure a safe and controllable source of oil.

Glazers as described by an American journalist. Not necessarilly true but according to that piece, the Glazers are well-capable of telling lies. If they convinced everybody they would stump up half the cost of the new Tampa Stadium then didn't, what are their assurances on TV revenues worth? I noticed they squeezed 10,000 fans out of the Tampa stadium to make way for more corporate seats. No doubt they will try that trick on the Mancs.

No phil, you chose to ignore all the available evidence.

This is sheer self-indulgence but these are the reasons why I went for the placements I did: 1. Liverpool - if Benitez can win the Champs League over 17 matches he can win the Prem over 38 (he won the Liga twice). He still has £20m to spend and he'll spend it well. 2. Chelsea - terrible fixture list. At the moment they've sold too many key squad players who they won't fully replace and the superstar buys will be for winning the CL not the PL. They'll sacrifice anything for being Champs of Europe. 3. Arsenal - they will spend big but on who? Expect Henry not to be on his own up front and for the youngsters to look world beaters for 06/07 but not ready for 05/06. 4. Middlesbrough - they got UEFA qualification through league position last year and their summer signings have hardly made them weaker. 5. Man U - I'll believe my own diatribes and say the Mancs won't sign much more than they've got already. In which case, if there's another club good enough for fourth, the Mancs will be in the UEFA 05/06 under the current manager of... 6. Rovers - who will sign Benni and will lose some stupid games through not being good enough in midfield but will be outrageously entertaining a lot of the time unlike... 7. Everton - who won't get past the 3rd qualifying round of the Champs League and the transfer spending will be frozen when they drew Inter (or equivalent) 8. Bolton - not as effective as last season but still pretty useful. Watch for a bad start and Sam making spectacular signings just as the Window closes. 9. Spurs - Could easilly come 6th in place of us but despite being very organised, still don't quite equal more than the sum of their parts 10. Villa - mid table mediocrity for mid-table mediocrities 11. City - SWP will not be adequately replaced so despite having a very good young English manager, will be tough to beat but not tough enough. Good bet for a Cup though. 12. Pompey - would be relegation certs but for lots of smart transfer moves and an inspired new manager. 13. Newcastle - depends when Souey is fired. I'm assuming after Aug 31. 14. Fulham - Coleman is not that bad a manager and I think his signings will do the job they are bought for. 15. Birmingham - true wishful thinking would see them 18th but they are far too good for that. Bruce is not a good manager and so his squad will under achieve again. 16. Charlton - really have the look of strugglers if they make a poor start. Uninspired signings so far. 17. West Ham - signings are no great shakes but better than the other promoted clubs so far. 18. Wigan - Jewell nearly got punished for transfer complacency this season but Ipswich were too poor to catch them. Suspect they will be too cautious in the market to save themselves so no second Bradford-style survival for their manager. 19. Sunderland - signings not good enough although Stead will hit a purple patch to earn Rovers a bit of sell-on pocket money for next summer 20. West Brom - Bradford pattern repeated: last day reprieve followed by the drop. Will play well but not good enough to increase on this season's points total in what will be a closer league all round.

I believe we sold 14,000 STs last season. Just doing the arithmetic from what has been said, we've sold 10,000 so far and at the same time last year we'd sold 10,700. Like everyone else, I wonder if the signing of Bellamy and another top linbe striker is going to trigger a rush of excitement and up the ST sales numbers. IF we get Bellars and McCarthy, that is going to be so exciting a prospect that surely advance sales will accelerate.

The Newcastle midfield is now one of the most creative around but if Bowyer goes, they will have not much grit to compete with either an aggressive or possession-dominating opposition midfield (the other 19 clubs in the Prem have one or the other and some have both - the ones that have neither get relegated). Not much width, the defence looks pretty lacking as does the front line. Souey's comments about the goals coming from Dyer are pointing towards him going into the new season with the sort of novel formations that were his trademark in the later stages of his time at Ewood (who needs a team with a left back/winger/....?) Anyway that is not our problem. Nor is an Intertoto draw which looks more like the later stages of the UEFA or Champions League than a summer kick around. Newcastle will have done extraordinarilly well if they qualify for the preliminary round draw of the UEFA Cup.

Three posters have been posting views I profoundly disagree with and whose rantings on a thread about the horrific events in London last week I find odious in the extreme. No doubt they were all for hanging any Irishman they could get their hands on and mass evictions of all Roman Catholics when the IRA was bringing terror to the UK for thirty years. Whilst all this drivel is being pushed here, it seems to be increasingly apparent that a lady from Oswaldtwistle is one of the victims and that she was known to some members of this board. My deepest sympathies go to everyone affected by the horrors unleashed by the perpetrators of the four bombs. Not letting the bombers win means not siding with the views of AESF, blue phil or thenodrog.

Those tables look too much like this year's. I will settle for this (guessing the impact of the transfers not yet made): 1. Liverpool 2. Chelsea 3. Arsenal 4. Middlesbrough 5. Man U 6. Rovers 7. Everton 8. Bolton 9. Spurs 10. Villa 11. City 12. Pompey 13. Newcastle 14. Fulham 15. Birmingham 16. Charlton 17. West Ham 18. Wigan 19. Sunderland 20. West Brom Champions League: Celsea

No but McCarthy will be.

I am hopeful but not certain about Bellamy. I am as certain as anyone can be about football that Newcastle are headed down down down until they fire Souness. Shame we don't play them twice in the first five games next season....

Unfortunately referees do read that garbage. My great fear is that our reputation will go before us. Perhaps if we avoid any trouble in the pre-seasons, Sparky should let it be known he would be pleased to win the Fair Play award (ie not a target but at least change people's thinking a bit).

...and the bottom of the black and blue burn Mirror article quoted on here. Just seen Lee on the official site saying enigmatically it is closer to £3.75m than £5m.

Nothing like allowing time out for a cruciate ligament injury when calculating the averages, eh Souey? Anyway, Bellamy averaged a goal every three games for the Toon. Not the best but in a full season makes him worth 12 to 15 goals and I will be reasonably happy with that. Of course if he continues his Celtic form of two goals every three games, I'll be ecstatic.

Use the scroll back facility on your PC and then read the previous posts. Just had a look at Bellamy's Celtic performances. Seems he scored 8 in 12 appearances including one hattrick but had a very high number of assists credited to him. On the basis it looks like he needs to have the right sort of clinical finisher next to him. Nightmare visions of Andrew Cole misses to return to Ewood?

No difference given that three of his sons are fronting the whole thing. Steve Coppell has said he cannot see how the Glazer numbers work in the League Managers' Association Newsletter. Meanwhilst Rio Ferdinand is holding out for an additional £20K per week. Ordinarily I would say his cheek is beyond belief after the drugs test fiasco and continuing to be paid by the Mancs but as Glazer is the paymaster- go for it Rio.

...and how many innocent Irish people would we have murdered by the state as opposed to releasing them pardonned and innocent several years later?

Corporal Carrot- what a superb little rant. Really made me proud that Rovers have so thoroughly wound up the Brum. No mention that Bruce offered £1.25m more than us and still didn't get him? Ah well, go back to writing petitions against Lee Bowyer. On the financial side, getting Bellamy for a bottom line £3.75m, a reduction in wages and a one year sell-on clause of £6m- what a deal! I knew Newcastle were there for the taking over Bellamy but it appears they handed him an extra £300K to get him out. Souey, you are still a Rovers hero!

It seems I'm not the only one who struggles to see how the Glazers can make the Mancquistion work. ...and this guy runs a business school and is a Manc.

I was thinking a heavyweight Stead.

That looks a sensible clause- I like the way it only operates next summer which could make for a nervous time next year if we don't come 4th or above. At least Bellars won't be in the shop window at the world cup. Two other good things- Bellamy has taken a wage cut to come to Rovers and will only make the amount he made at Newcastle (£2.5m a year) if Rovers do well and he scores a certain number of goals. Bellamy scored 42 in 128 appearances for Newcastle so was more prolific than I thought despite not being used as an outright striker there.

The Australian cricket team has been as unexpectedly bad as the Lions are in NZ. One will recover and I doubt it will be the British egg chasers.

Brilliant post Tris.

Random thoughts here: - what are the details of the first year get-out clause? I am pretty sure Rovers will have protected our financial interests but still curious. - Bellamy is no clinical finisher but he can score from anywhere around and in the box which makes him a real threat to any defence. The Rovers front line has suddenly become a headache for opposing defenders rather than for our own fans. - the weapon of his pace only works when the right ball is delivered in the right place. Savage can deliver those as can Amo and Gresko, Toogs certainly can, Neill Axe and Nelsen can sometimes, MGP might be able, Reid possibly, Emerton probably not, Thompson will be too busy going round in circles and Flitty is incapable and Matteo is best not trying. Picking up on Hughes' jigsaw pieces comment, I wonder if we will see an in and out of midfield players now to give us more ability to exploit Bellars' pace? - I don't see him as the 1 in a 4-5-1 formation or am I missing something? - Does anyone see a Dickov/Bellamy front line working together? I could see Bellamy/Kuqi operating very well in many circumstances but not as an automatic first choice being a bit predictable whereas Bellamy/McCarthy, Bellamy/Cole or Bellamy/rejuvenated Jansen look very tasty propositions. - Hughes' huge challenge will be discipline. Rovers have a reputation already and refs will be handing out cards for the fun of it just because they see a blue and white shirt. - Once again, Rovers' big day is over shadowed by national tragedy. - The perception of Rovers both by our own fans and the press and opposition should be changed by this signing- but probably won't be.

Sky News have just said at least 45 dead.