See, this is the nub of the issue. Mowbray isn't in the same stratosphere as certain managers we have had pre Jack like Furphy, Lee and Kendall. The most accurate comparisons are probably Saxton v Mowbray and Mackay v Mowbray. Mackay's funding was pretty limited apart from the period after Jack took over. And whilst I wasn't a particular fan of Saxton there's no doubt he had to oversee a period when we genuinely didn't have a pot to piss in, I recall a story doing the rounds in the mid 80's that consideration was being given to flogging the table in the Boardroom to raise a few quid. Without looking at their respective performances in detail I'd say off the top of my head Mowbray has delivered worse results than the penniless Saxton on a champagne budget and way way worse performance than Mackay who with relatively less backing delivered several back to back play off finishes. At the end of the day Mowbray is an extremely poor manager who has carved a lucrative career in coaching out of the back of a decent playing career. He's had barely any success anywhere he's been apart from West Brom and a heavily funded promotion campaign here and it has been more common for his managerial stints to end in disaster and the sack within a relatively short space of time. Has also been exceptionally fortunate here to survive three very disappointing seasons, a near record 17 game losing run and a Club record home defeat despite substantial backing. In summary a poor man's Saxton and a very poor man's Mackay. All that said we obviously all hope that a miracle occurs and we somehow scrape up via the playoffs this season with a hungry, talented but threadbare young squad.

What has any of the above got to do with what other Clubs are prepared to pay us for our players?

You're miles out on Nyambe and Rothwell chaddy. If that's all we've offered them then it's no wonder they haven't re-signed. 15k p.w. is probably a bit more like it for Lenihan but I'd imagine he'll want a bit more - even Downing was on £15k p.w. in his first season here.

Hi Paul, (apologies if that isn't your actual name) you didn't answer my question from last week about how much you think we'd actually get for DL RN and JR if they were sold in Jan with only 6 months left on their contracts. Would you care to enlighten us?

"Previous work?" 2 pretty poor and one very poor finish in my book. Delighted with this season however. Completely the opposite of what I expected and I've always said if we go up I don't mind who's in charge, be it Kean, Coyle or now Mowbray. No matter what happens on the pitch I'll never forgive him and Waggott for attempting to flog off part of Brockhall though.

First time I've agreed with you in a while Gav, but spot on my friend. 👍

It's a couple of (very) good games against three pretty dreadful seasons at the moment. I'll give him plenty of credit if he can maintain it for the rest of the season and deliver a finish in the play off positions.

Yup, it's a situation that really has been forced on us financially by Waggott and Mowbray's incompetence but bizarrely the smaller squad and being forced to rely more heavily on youth appears to be a situation that is working very much to our advantage at the moment. We need the manager to realise the riches he currently has in terms of our own youngsters and to leave well alone. Then we need the rub of the green with no serious injuries to key players like Kaminsky, Pickering, Nyambe, Wharton Buckley and Brereton, no major departures in Jan and possibly a couple of bodies in for a bit more cover.

Nyambe is not replaceable (with the same quality) for a few hundred grand. I think people will only realise how good he is once he has gone. Ditto Rothwell. And BB leaving on an enforced basis would be a financial disaster for the Club. The only player I think would be replaceable with similar quality at a reasonable cost is Lenihan. It would probably be easier to replace them all with a manager and CEO they want to sign for. The only hope would seem to be in the unlikely event that results and performances continue in the same vein as the last two and we get into the play offs. It would then be a gamble for the players concerned. Is it worth it to leave for a bit more money to a team that definitely isn't going to make the play offs? Then again if more than one of JR DL or RN leave or BB leaves in Jan that would probably instantly scupper any outside play off chances anyway. For me if we're still where we are now in Jan, for what it would be worth, we stick hold of them all in Jan and gamble on going up. The only decision worthy of consideration would be if someone came in with a massive offer for BB. And whilst he's had a great season so far I don't see anyone offering anywhere near the £25m you mention.

Think the commentators on I follow today said we've never lost when Wharton has started a game. ** ** I was watching from New Yotk. *cough*

Fantastic win. In my view this is the first time we've stood up to be counted in the Championship under Mowbray when we've got ourselves in a half decent position instead of bottling it. I think there's a very different feel at the moment than at any other time during his tenure thanks to the young lads who I think have enough talent and heart to avoid going into a full on Mowbray death spiral at any point. I'm never going to underestimate Mowbray's potential to cock things up by trying to be too clever and chopping and changing but right now what a refreshing change from four years plus of watching overpaid underperforming journeymen go through the motions and put a performance in every so often to keep our noses above water. Buckley absolutely superb today. Wharton not far behind. Had to dig in and really show character to get the win today. Actually looking good as opposed to getting results without playing particularly well for the first time under Mowbray I'd say.

That's exactly what I was wondering.

Surely the option is still there to sack him exactly as before but the amount of compensation payable is reduced?

Glad I said agree with Paul Mani's last "sentence" and not "paragraph" this time! 🙂

That tends to be my view as well hence why I said in my original post IF we're still where we are now relative to other Clubs in Jan. If we do our usual under Mowbray and hit a death spiral and are seven or eight points outside the play offs by mid Jan then I think the situation is completely different and I'd probably agree with you. But if everyone is still bunched up in Jan and we're still within touching distance of third you're giving up the chance of a crack at the play offs for what, £1m a player in the cases of RN DL and JR? How much do you think they'd fetch with 6 months left on their contracts?

MP is only fishing, and only pops up after a win. Wasn't much sign of him after the Fulham game. I shouldn't have bitten really..

Agree with your last sentence. Not sure about the rest of your post. Of course we can "replace" anyone. The question is, can we replace them with the same sort of quality? The only one of the 4 I think we possibly could is Lenihan. The other 3 I think to do so you're talking millions in each instance and as RN, JR, and DL are into the last few months of their contracts I don't see anyone offering more than relative buttons for them at this stage. The other thing you have to bear in mind is if they've got deals lined up as a free agent in summer, we can't force them to leave. I might be wrong but I don't see any significant overall benefit from them leaving in Jan at all.

Why, unless Mowbray gets us promoted via the play offs it doesn't prove any such thing. All of the above have had way more success than Mowbray in recent years despite the odd blip. Are we ignoring Mowbray's record at Middlesbrough, Celtic and Coventry then? I'd love Jokanovic here. Could be sensational with this group of players.

Said "conspiracy" would also need the co-operation of all the players.

I wouldn't bother Leftwinger, you're talking complete sense on the issue but no-one seems prepared to listen. Players also have clauses written into their contracts providing for overall pay reductions if relegated. However that doesn't mean they're going out deliberately trying to achieve that end or lose every game either.

1864, I know you are going on the basis of what Waggott has told you and I don't doubt contracts have been offered but in my opinion this talk of a "wage ceiling" is absolute tosh. There's may have been an attempt to impose some sort of ceiling post the recent FFP debacle but there's no way in the world that players like Gallagher and Ayala's existing wages would fit within the notional "wage structure" mentioned and imo players salaries should reflect their value to the Club taking into account their contribution on the pitch, the likely cost of rreplacement and probable value if sold. There has to be a large degree of flexibility, it simply doesn't work otherwise.

Haven't read the recommendations in full but I fear the proposals to levy a tax on PL Clubs will be met by fierce resistance and will only hasten many of them splitting away from the EFL completely and the formation of the repugnant European Super League. Otherwise seem to be some sensible proposals though.

The main problem was SW and TM not recognising and prioritising our main assets and not sorting the situation out at least 18 months ago. Any efforts now are likely to be akin to shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted although there should be a fair bit more wiggle room now with the sale of Armstrong and the accounting exercise on the STC. The fact nothing has yet happened would again indicate the players won't sign for Waggot or Mowbray or both.

Exactly.

Really don't understand your non stop defence of the manager. Travis had hardly played for months before making that solitary appearance at Sheff Utd in which Smallwood was sent off and rumours had been circulating in the local press about him going out on loan. Similarly with Wharton, with the benefit of hindsight, events conspired in our favour. There was no way he was getting a look in without so many injuries. Indeed most on here were of the view that he had no or little future at the Club without ever having seen him play and wanted him loaned out again or sold.