Seen that a few times now, but it still makes me laugh. I got horribly addicted to WoW and probably still would be if it wasn't for my current hectic work schedule. It's a very very very fine game and worth every penny of the subscription. It's up there with Sky+ and my dyson as "things that I used to live without, but wouldn't give up now I've got them".

Birmingham managed one better than that, as a loyal Brum fan I was being offered cheap tickets for the Villa game the previous weekend ! Also, I am not a loyal Brum fan, but I did once write them a letter of complaint (that they never replied to). Also, it was possibly the most amaturish mailing I've seen. Finally they sent it to <My Real Name> Blackburn Rovers Blackburn By fluke, whoever deals with the post as Ewood asked Lee if he'd heard of <My Real Name>. Rovers corporate mailings did impress me a while back. At first I wonderd WHY I'd suddenly ended up on the corporate list offering me a box for the Leeds cup game, but then I realised they must have sent to all ST holders with Leeds addresses, in the hope they'd have Leeds fans at work this making a box viable.

Which is a whole different problem, but one we are very very aware of

Too right. Would you be happy publishing every detail of your life into (effectively) the public domain ?

Yes. Kind of. The UK driving licence is now in two parts (an ID card part and the old paper part). Neither part is "legal" without the other (although some place will accept the ID part as ID, but only places like libraries and pubs, places like banks still require both bits). Sadly, both are both easily and cheaply forged (well cloned, somebody elses details with your pic on the ID card) and available (I'm told the going rate is just £50.).

To be fair, they started the whole damn ball rolling. ID cards were one of the major factors behind me moving my vote to Lib Dem at the last election.

The problem is "single point of failure". With computer passwords, most people realise that setting all your password (or pins) to the same value is a bad idea (even if they still do it) because if one is compromised, they all are. Now instead of passwords, think ID cards (driving licence, birth cirtificate, passport, National Insurrance) and rather than protecting them with a user configurable "key" (such as pin, password or even signature) they are protected with something that CAN'T change (biometric data, well unless you replace your hands and eyes). Under the new scheme, once your ID card becomes compromsed, not only do they own every little bit of your life (rather than a small section), but you can never "reclaim" it, you can't simply "change the pin", your life is comprimised for ever. I actually quite agree with that in some ways, properly implemented and secured they would be very handy. The problem is their ease of use (and peoples complete trust in the data they represent) is their downfall. Whilst being very anti the current ID card proposal, I will actaully carry one, because I believe it may prove useful. However, I object to being FORCED to carry one, especially if I don't wish to avail myself of services that require it. Because it will cost the tax payers a huge amount of money and solve none of the problems it claims (it will in fact make many worse). ... and the problem is not enough people are scared yet. AND THEY SHOULD BE. As Phil says. This is going to be this government's Poll Tax, I'm just hoping that people like stand.org.uk no2id and privacyinternational can make everyone see the problems BEFORE it becomes law (and more importantly, the money is spent).

I've ranted several times on here about the lunacy to the plan, so I won't again (much). Safe to say they are going cause the very problems they are being touted as solving (solving ID fraud and terrorism), will cost a LOT more per head than is being touted (sure, the reciept may only be £35, but the tax payer will still end up stumping the extra £170 per head) and neither this government nor the previous one has been able to implement either a major working IT project (CSA, Passport Office, DSS, DWP and Air Traffic control have all been recent disasters) or a major ID checking scheme (both the passport office, the police and eduction have all admitted their vetting procedure have been shortcutted to cope with demand), and nothing on this scale has ever been attempted before. And that's without mentioning the privacy issues. It's a disaster in the making.

... other than wages, which are substaintial. (The pay-for-play nonsense isn't true, even the article that started this thread states what his weekly wage is).

I'd be very glad to see both of those off the wage bill too. Don't get me wrong, I apreciate everything Matt did for the club and he will certainly always be a legend to me. However, like Simon Garner, I'd like him to be a legend who's wages we didn't have to pay if he's not going to play.

I quietly removed a rant of my own. It was based on a slight mis-reading of the article (I initially thought Matt was claiming to be hard done by, when Rovers had effectively paid him for a 4 year sickie. However, now I've read the full article, and as nobody had replied, I removed it and hoped nobody had seen it in the first place).

That just about sums up my feelings too.

Total Football Network.

The first bit of that is something someone raised at the weekend. They mentioned a recent survey (that sadly I can't find reference to online) which stated the avaerge Prem ST holder earn't £30k+ with Chelsea fans earning an average of £50k+ A full breakdown by club would be great reading and I imagine Rovers would be right down the bottom. A further intresting figure would be the average ST price compared to average income. Nobody has any further info on this study do they ?

As we've mentioned the club has agreed to hold regular meetings with us, the first of which is coming up soon. The subject of this next meeting with the club is the falling attendances at Ewood. Whilst the next BRISA fans meeting (which everyone is welcome to turn up to, although you'll have a become a member to get a vote) is on Thursday and the sole agenda for this is attendances (in preparation for the meeting with the club) we apreciate not every can make these meetings. Now we know it's been discussed to death on here but we've set up a section of the BRISA forum where anyone can post on the issue of attendances, without needing to sign up as a member, we want to hear from EVERYONE. The forums are at http://www.brisa.org.uk Those that don't like posting on internet forums can always email their views to admin@brisa.org.uk (End obvious advert ).

Was the shortage of units planned from the start ?

Not Pukka by any chance ? (The only sommerset developers I know ).

I should be in the Drayton soon after 11am. Never thought, but if I'd have picked some reciepts up I could have signed so the the London based guys up to BRISA. Are you coming to London Mr BRISA acting treasurer sir ? To clarify a little the Drayton Park is a 10 min walk from the away end, normally where they park the away coaches. If you've not been before it's work looking on a map first.

To be fair to American, one of the things I always felt very strongly about regarding BRISA was that everything had to be open and public. However, as time as gone on I see that it simply isn't pratical to make everything 100% open (As much as I'd like). I'm also not a big fan of the "put up or shut up" argument, I want to listen to everyone, wether they ever have any intention on contributing to the organisational side of things or not. However, I'm sure everyone invloved so far feels the same, they just get botherd by citicism (constructive or not) more than me (which I'm not sure is a good or bad thing ).

That said. We do make every effort to discuss the non-trival stuff in the open section but if people want to know the weigth of the paper to be used in the newsletter, technical problems with moving our membership database from MySql to outlook and wether a regional unit can be called a branch or a cell then fair enough, we can talk openly about that to. The problem comes with things such as our personal phone numbers and holiday plans, pin numbers for the BRISA voice mail and banking details. For obvious reasons these are things known the those with access to the committee forum, for not really suitable for distribution far and wide. Also, actual decisions tend to be made in meetings rather than the forum (that way everything is above board, democratic and documented).

Two youths arrested on suspision of race-related murder. One plead guilty, the other happens to be Joey Barton's brother.

Cheers for giving it the once over RS. They have said we can have our own table to which we limit access via a password, so that should get round problems with full and not-private tables. The requirement for a CC for authorization purposes, is a pain in the ass, but one we could live with I guess. The fact you managed to play without committing any money is a good thing. All in all it's looking quite promissing.

no probs, just PM me your existing email address.

.... and since when has the FF been bi-monthly (unless I'm only told about one meeting in 3 ). For me, the main point of the FF is to provide information to the club, based on the opinions of a small but nicely varied group of fans. Fo me, the main point of BRISA is to provide information both to and from, both the fans and the club. For me, there are many things the FF can provide that under it's full disclosure polciy BRISA can not. Likewise, there are many the BRISA can provide that the FF can't. Hence why I see a need for both organisations.

Myself, Ste and Clare (Kiwiwannabe) have all declared our involvement in both on numerous occasions. The two things are very separate entities that serve different purposes. As long as I agree to keep what I learn from the FF private and what is said at BRISA public I don't see any conflict of interests.