roversfan99

When you start believing that deflections go against us more often than not, it is clutching at straws, such an observation is totally baseless and nothing to do with hard luck across the course of a season. Against both Millwall and Brentford, we benefitted hugely from late deflected goals, within the last 4 games.

Those who believe that it is a time for a manager can very easily be painted as a blood thirsty mob desperate for instant success based on unrealistic expectations. Implying that those who want the manager out also wanted Big Sam out is a lazy assumption again aimed at making those who want a change are impatient, irrational and too demanding against all logic. The fact of the matter is, opinions about the playing style put to one side, despite having more time than any manager (bar Wycombe's) in the league, despite attempting to play a new style to dominate (a change which whilst most agree that it is more entertaining is no more productive) and despite signing numerous players and spending money, a few of which (Kaminski and Elliott in particular this season) are huge upgrades on what we had before. In regards to points tallies and results compared to previous years, we havent improved. We also havent even popped our head into the play offs even for a day/week/couple of hours since the third match, the top 6 is the target but we cant yet realistically be even deemed serious contenders. It is fair to acknowledge that there would be a small risk should the manager be changed. Mowbray could not be accused of being a terrible manager or doing a terrible job of which no one could do worse. But considering the potential reward of promotion against what would take a Coyle esque appointment AND a fire sale I would suspect to create any danger of relegation, advocating a change 4 years into a managerial reign is not being impatient. The idea that half the squad would revolt and leave because Mowbray went is very much clutching at straws.

Totally agree that we need to stop defending goals but nothing about Bell's Rovers career suggests that he is a player to facilitate that.

You are basing your analysis on opinions, on subjective matters, on style, on aesthetics. The points tally does not bear out the improvement you mention in spite of some obvious upgrades in personnel.

Why would you expect a Rovers forum to be anything else after a loss in a week in which we have picked up 1 point from 3 games? Its not unwarranted misery, its supporters being understandably frustrated and saddened to see their team lose. The perfect benchmark amidst all of the rhetoric about relegated clubs, inferior resources, comparatively numerous injury woes, all excuses that carry varying levels of truth, is our performance against the last 2 seasons. For all the spiel about progress regarding subjective styles and tactics, in terms of results we havent improved at this stage on the last 2 years.

The thing about the League 1 season and the performances is that as you touched on, they weren't what is seemingly seen as attractive on the eye, the football was direct, but we kept winning, and everyone loved it because we went into games expecting to win. I bet those fawning over the style now despite its inability to improve results weren't criticising the style in League 1. I am not saying that we should revert to playing direct now, the style to me is almost irrelevant, its an end to a means. But there is a level of hypocrisy you could argue in some of the defence of the current "progress" people perceive to be seeing at the moment.

The thing is, because we hover between "one win from the play offs" (which never happens) and deep into mid table mediocrity, my opinion can waver and I will admit that, but I think asking me now that Mowbray's shelf life as manager as passed, I think we should look for a change and that Mowbray will never smash the glass ceiling and make us a top 6 team. There will always be inconsistency and there will always be an inferiority complex under him I fear. The variances in style and formation have objectively not caused an improvement in results, even factoring in additions to the team like Kaminski and Elliott who are massive upgrades on what we had last year, we are mid table as we were at the same stage in each of the last 2 seasons with frighteningly identical points tallies. I feel that those expecting a sudden winning run to materialise are doing so in blind faith rather than using logic having been either wowed by a different style that as I mentioned has not improved results and/or have been suckered in by Mowbray and his constant string of hard luck stories and excuses.

Fair enough. Results and improvement in league position can be an afterthought to pretty sideways passing.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18940547.mowbrays-verdict-rovers-defeat-leaders-norwich-city/ The usual rhetoric from Mowbray after a defeat. He was talking about "trusting the numbers" in the LT this morning, now its saying how he doesnt think we are far away. Thrown in the League 1 card for good measure. Suspect that he wont be questioned on being in the exact same position as in the previous 2 seasons.

Thats the key and the truth you cannot escape, 100%. Another thing, Mowbray has had as much time as anyone in the division (bar maybe Ainsworth at Wycombe) hence why 4 years in taking positives in certain aspects of performance from defeats when failing to challenge the targets set by the manager this season is acceptable. Had he been in the managers chair for a short period of time then maybe.

Bell is shit, hes proven so across his Rovers career. The left back position seems to have been an afterthought in the last 2 windows, two temporary and injury prone loanees brought in on the final day. Depends what you define as better football, and if you are wowed by possession stats and merely creating more chances. My definition of better football would be getting better results, and it is clear as day that we are not doing so, even with a few improvements (Kaminski, Elliott etc) we are getting basically the exact same number of points and continue in mid table mediocrity. I wont be getting too excited over this "attractive football" while we continue to repeatedly lose to anyone half decent and fail to push on to challenge the top 6. Opposition managers who have played Rovers and beat us and then praise us post match is not what I ever want to hear.

Quite a few managers have said similar this year and it is exactly what we do not want to hear. Managers smug after a win giving us credit while we sit here with no points. We want opposition managers to hate playing v us, not loving us being a soft touch.

Douglas has been a big disappointment, but I suspect that Bell is benefiting from not being in the team and people forgetting how bad he is aswell.

Same old story today, played v a big side, the usual platitudes, we apparently "deserved more," we "played our part" and we "were unlucky." Its not a coincidence that we keep coming out on the wrong side every time we play anyone half decent. Some people may be sucked in to the hard luck, woe is me narrative offered by many, blame injuries, blame referees, blame fine margins as if they will spin in our favour, blame deflections, blame rotten luck. Others will be wowed by the different style of play to the point that they refuse to accept (at times in patronising fashion) to accept that we are in the same place as we have been in the past. @superniko showed us the facts, we havent improved. 24, 26 and 25 points at this stage of the season, improvement my arse. Tangible and intangible improvements have been made this season. Kaminski is an obvious upgrade on Walton and Elliott is a brilliant talent who has made a massive impact. Ayala seemed a shrewd addition as did Douglas to our leaky defence. And intagible ones too, Armstrong only started scoring so regularly half way through last season, Brereton seemed to turn into a different player, the likes of Johnson, Holtby and Rothwell were apparently going to be "new players." It is the case with Mowbray that in the Championship, no matter how improved the ingredients are, the end product always results in mid table mediocrity. On todays performance, Holtby and Rothwell are the perfect summary of 2020/21 Rovers, ineffective more often than not with fleeting glimpses. Johnson was very good and for me has started to display some consistency and out of the 3 is the one that now can be least accused of flattering to deceive, he would be the one to maintain his place over the other 2 when Travis and Dack return. Elliott was absolutely excellent, Gallagher and Armstrong very quiet, we are so reliant on the latter. Defensively, we always return to the comfort blanket that is Derrick Williams, a defender who has proven not to be of the level we need. Douglas put in some good balls but was all over the place yet we have to persist because the alternative is terrible. Kaminski aside from some wayward kicking kept the score down and Nyambe was good. The subs were very much made for the sake of it I think, Downing got involved, the other 2 looked out of their depth.

I dont doubt that he is not above scrutiny and he deserved criticism for his performance on Wednesday night. There have been plenty of praise for lesser threats such as Brereton and rightly so but had we not got a striker as good as anyone in the division on our hands, then the likes of Brereton, Gallagher etc chipping in with 2 and 3 would be attracting criticism, as it is as long as Armstrong keeps scoring such supporting roles are manageable. When we took Armstrong out v Boro we lookee toothless. We have been blessed with some top level Championship attackers in some otherwise shite teams in the last 10 years and sometimes I think they can be underappreciated. The likes of Dack and Rhodes have also had criticism in the past at times when they were the primary source of goals. When you have a forward scoring at a rate of a goal every other game or indeed with Armstrong almost 1 a game it is easy to take it for granted. The reason that goalscorers always score is because they know where to be. You never hear people saying that we dont create enough for Armstrong, for Dack, back in a poor team for Rhodes because they know where the ball will fall, where to move, how to sniff out chances. When a non goalscorer starts there, take Gallagher last season you hear regular questioning of the supply which may carry some weight but ultimately the main difference is that lesser forwards dont sniff out chances in the same way. I dont mean create chances for themselves by beating a couple of players or belting one in from 25 yards.

He is the focal point but it is very naive to think that someone especially realistic to us could come in and score at an equal or even better rate. As I mentioned it is not as simple as having chances created for him, he aids that by anticipating chances via his movement. He is the top scorer in the league which is very impressive and we would be half the attacking force without him.

Our stats with and without Lenihan do a story, although for 2 years he has been the only defender we have had who leads and heads stuff away regularly, maybe Ayala can be a second. Williams is not a defender I think youd want in the trenches with you.

I totally disagree that the team is doing more for him than he is as a team. He anticipates chances like any goalscorer as much as we create for him, it isnt as simple as replacing the striker and said striker getting an equal number of chances. It isnt only 25 yard screamers where a striker has made his own goal, his movement makes goals. His goal record in 2020 is brilliant. You never hear people saying that a team isnt creating chances for a goalscorer because he will find chances regardless.

30m seems pie in the sky and I cant see any team paying that when he only has 1 year on his contract after this. However it will be nigh on impossible to replace the goal output that he provides, it will not be as easy as another striker coming in and picking up where he left off. Goalscorers create chances themselves with their movement.

My umbridge is with the assumption that things will just click in regards to results (ultimately results are what is matter) and if we carry on in the same vein surely that will mean continuing to lose to the better sides, beating the lower sides and never developing the consistency to get into never mind stay in the top 6. Im not having that the play offs would represent an achievement against all the odds or feeding the inferiority complex, Brentford continiously sell players at a profit for a start and I suspect havent spent close to the net outlay that we have. Top 6 is the target as repeatedly and publically stated by the manager and play offs, it would be a very good achievement if we can pull it off but not against all odds as some sort of miracle. Below the top 3 relegated sides none of the other sides above us or around us warrant the David and Goliath narrative. Its just totally unnecessary to put anyone who is less trusting that carrying as we are will suddenly lead to top 6 level results as not knowing anything about football. I take on board that there are aspects to our play to be excited about compared to previous years and I share those but until results bear them out to at least strongly suggest that we can hit our target then they are superficial, aesthetic and minor ones. There is reason for hope but not to the point of mere assumption that carrying on as we are will make us serious play off contenders. And its not a lack of understanding of the game to doubt that.

I think most understand the game enough to understand a league table. Style of play is subjective and for some of that "brilliant" play in yesterdays first half (much of it was backwards and sideways) it created little in the way of meaningful chances. Until that place is the top 6 as targetted then the questions will always be there and valid. Its not as if we are flying and people are refusing to credit the manager because they previously wanted him out. Crap budget is untrue but a whole new argument, the target is top 6 and we keep falling short. If we ever break into it and people still criticise and moan then you have a point. The "dont know football" and "dont understand the game" rhetoric is Paul Mani's favourite and is patronising in place of anything more constructive.

One of the main problems would be that outside of those 3 injury prone CBs, Nyambe and Douglas, we have no cover so we would likely not be able to play it for long.

We shouldnt be viewing these tough away games with such an inferiority complex if we genuinely think we are aiming to be a top 6 side. The last sentence is something that can be argued depending on expectation. The target is top 6 and we are 5 points away, therefore is that ok? Certainly not to the point where people cannot argue otherwise. Its this continious notion that we are x points away (often accompanied with excuses y and z) as it that is about to change any time soon. I dont get why anyone expects not to see moaning and frustration when we lose a game. Especially when it is another chance spurned to break into the top 6 and another failure to overcome anyone half decent.

I totally agreed that he was incredibly poor, no doubting that.

I dont necessarily think it is a psychological barrier, I am just not sure that between the manager and the players that we have enough to ever become genuine contenders for the play offs unless something changes. Its not imaginary, its just a way of basically saying that we never take that step and get into the top 6, our highest peak is "one result away." Holtby and Rothwell perhaps sum us up more than anyone. On their day a match for most midfielders in the division, but their day is not nearly often enough. We often seem competitive against bigger teams yet always end up on the wrong side of the result. A point comes when luck isnt the deciding factor for that.