roversfan99

To be fair I have no interest in what they think or want to say anyway but I dont think its a tactical decision to "let" Mowbray and Waggott do their talking. I suspect it is primarily a lack of real interest and warmth. I dont see what their incompetence regarding mistakes with agents has anything to do with their approach. As @Mattyblue points out it has been constant silence throughout.

Opinion online on forums and indeed the crazy world of twitter etc is totally different, indeed even at the lower points during Mowbrays reign there has never been close to a outcry for his head. The worst its got being either against Doncaster or away at Oldham after relegation when even then it was more youre not fit to wear the shirt at the players. Again even with Bowyer it was very supportive throughout at the ground really, opinions moreso again online became more split the season after when it was clear that we had spurned 2 key chances and the wheels started to fall off with an embargo etc but there was never calling for his head at the ground. You also mention fickleness specific to Rovers then go on to suggest the same for Leeds. And also seemingly imply that the Brereton booing was wrong moreso because of who it was aimed at!

Yeah I would definitely agree with @Mattyblue that it is disingenous to suggest that the Ewood crowd is difficult to play in front of or a particularly fickle one. Regarding the player himself, I think its perhaps overanalysing it to put it down to his mental strength, to be honest, I just dont think hes particularly good. He must have a modicum of ability to have gotten this far, maybe he has riden the crest of a wave having had a good game on TV against an about to retire Per Mertesacker who he did get the better of but even then only scored a solitary penalty. If that was enough proof then what a player Brett Emerton would have been after that Wolves game. I dont recall any booing really towards him, I didnt go to Birmingham in the cup though but sarcastic cheering and the odd boo is hardly a new phenomenon, to be pedantic wasnt at Ewood, and to be honest having watched both that and the Forest game, followed 2 really poor, limp and perhaps somewhat heartless performances from the player. I dont condone or endorse it but I do think it was made too much of a big deal of after it happened. I also dont think the fans have particularly high expectations either. Rovers fans get overly excited when we are anywhere in the top half of the Championship these days.

Absolutely. Say the best case scenario of us winning the play off final. Of course there is going to be some happiness as there would always be, but successful seasons dont come around that often, and wed be missing out on the experience of getting into the play offs, then winning the semi final to get to Wembley, then winning at Wembley where we havent been for 28 years, then much if not all of a first season of Premier League football as a reward.

I think you are living in a fantasy land if you think that football in what you correctly point out has to be "the new normal" is going to feel exactly the same. It is essentially going through the motions until we can return to normality.

I think you are in a bit of denial as to the part supporters play in football and how different it is without them. Maybe their impact will only dawn on you when you watch a few games without them. And its different watching a one off game with them because you know they will be back in the next game. I really dont think youll feel the same even when Rovers win. European football and players travelling from country to country should be last on the agenda and there is no flimsy reason of trying to financially save clubs with it being the biggest ones. I dont live in a dream world thinking a vaccine is imminent, indeed I am skeptical that one will ever come, I suspect that the time that supporers will be allowed back in will be when the threat ie the rate of infection has dropped low enough for the risk to be greatly reduced. But with the cost of testing players being huge and no supporters coming in, is it sustainable to have half or most likely a full season behind closed doors? At the moment these seasons are being rushed to completion. And surely the football league certainly cannot go ahead financially. To be fair the players that have mainly shown reluctance are ones who either themselves or their family fall into high risk categories.

Why on earth would I want anyone to contract coronavirus? It was a genuine question as the other day I read that the results were very much confidential and I was thus surprised to see Rovers come out with that tweet. Ultimately I have since seen another team tweet similar so maybe it is common place. Your comment on me being opposed to playing behind closed doors "on principle" due to being against the idea of re-introducing football is totally ludicrous too. I like you and everyone else love watching football and miss it as much as anyone, so what you have to remember is me being skeptical of its reintroduction is not a natural instinctive reaction, it goes against my wants and needs of wanting to watch football again. The thing is you and chaddy are speaking from very stubborn points of view, whereby chaddy wants football back and turns a blind eye towards any possible points towards not bringing football back, living in somewhat of a fantasy world, whereas you have been dismissive of a pandemic right from the start. Indeed, I did comment that the standard of the games technically and in terms of tempo has been maintained much better than I had expected, something not consistent with a desire to dismiss any notion of the reintroduction of football. I did expect the actual footballing product on show to be diluted or inferior, with even silly ideas mentioned like turning away when tackling etc, and to be fair I am not sure that is the case, that was an area of doubt I had that I am satisfied has not been noticeably affected. Leipzig today played some brilliant football to watch, and Bayern Munich yesterday also played some very good football, and there was an element of jeopardy momentarily when they were pegged back to 3-2. The aspect of behind closed doors that I did not appreciate is the overall atmospheric situation of it, and how removing that, even if the football is the same, takes the buzz away from it. I was excited to see football back last week and logistically I think that the Bundesliga have pulled it off as well as is feasibly possible. There also doesnt seem to be the issue of players refusing to come back for whatever reason, another hurdle we would need to appreciate, understand and overcome. It isnt even that the fans arent there in the individual games necessarily either. You just realise that something is missing, usually a title race between 2 fantastic teams such as Bayern Munich and Dortmund would be exciting, ultimately though the games seem somewhat of a clinical obligation in the absence of fans, with the better footballing sides benefiting. But whoever wins the league, you just know watching it that no matter how tightly run the winner is, the elation of winning it will be massively subdued. I appreciate that I have not got an active interest in the Bundesliga, and to be honest dont really understand peoples need to make a temporary attachment to a team to enjoy it, but conversely the main league that I watch is the Premier League due to its coverage and I don't have a positive attachment to any teams in there either. I actually think though that if I did have an attachment, for example take the unlikely scenario in which Rovers made the play offs behind closed doors, that would be when the different surely would be most apparent. The usual feeling of elation of a successful season which rarely come around would probably be minimised with more of an anticlimactic and even bitter feeling more apparent at the fact that a potential trip to Wembley was taken away, a potential memorable day getting promotion was taken away, and even some if not all of the reward of the following season being taken away. This is why I refuse to accept that anyone could be as equally delighted as they would have been had the pandemic not occured, and indeed for other clubs, take Liverpool, Leeds etc for example, the closure of finishing the season will not just be a normal feeling. My feelings on the immorality on the testing needed, and my doubts on the necessity of risking players health, players not being willing to come back, the impossibility of maintaining the integrity etc still all remain, but ultimately it seems past that point when the football is back. I have just realised that although I don't really care for platitudes like "football is nothing without fans" I really dont think it is. I think that behind closed doors football in my own opinion should be minimised. For example, if we assumed that we could play in front of fans from January onwards, maybe optimistic, then I would happily null and void this season, and just start the next season as delayed as possible, to get the vast majority if not all of next season in front of fans, maybe using the Euros, European competitions, even cup competitions etc as collateral to save time and work up until and around the winter World Cup in Qatar. Of course, the problem is the uncertainty of when we can play in front of fans again.

Find it very strange that Rovers have come out and stated that we have no positive tests, have any other Championship clubs done the same? Maybe you will be different but I don't think you appreciate the difference, youve uttered the phrase "become a TV sport" so many times that I think you dont fully realise quite how different it will be, how diluted it is, how sanitized it is and how the novelty will almost certaintly wear off fairly quickly. I have watched the Bundesliga and one thing I will say that shows that I am not single minded enough to only consider one side of the argument is that the actual quality of the games have been good, there isnt a massive reduction in tempo, there doesnt seem to be an overriding fear in terms of physical contact, I have Leipzig on now and they have been incredibly good, the Bayern game was good last night, Dortmund are good to watch. One thing that I would say is that being behind closed doors does perhaps favour the better teams. But when it came back last week, football was back, I was excited, within half an hour of the first game I was half watching, it wasnt the same. I believe you dont have BT so you might not appreciate how different it is until youve watched it yourself. It is more the overall feeling that you have, that edge is gone, there is something missing, not even necessarily in individual games as much as to the overall season. Even teams who finish the season in success will have fans with mixed feelings. It isnt like a one off game like you have seen behind closed doors before, and you wont have, or at least dont yet know if you will have that same feeling, I will wager that you wont. If we say got to the play off final, unlikely I know, that would be the first Wembley appearance for 28 years. You'd feel like you was missing out, like a rare season of pure success has almost been taken away. If Liverpool win the league, it will be anticlimactic, no celebrations (which arent the same months down the line) and you could go on and on. I dont understand why games would be put on freeview channels either, surely that would go against one of seemingly the primary reasons why the season is to be finished, the TV money?

The thing is we are both the same in that we are big football fans and obviously want it back as soon as it is possible. The problem is you seem to be unable to see past that desire in terms of using any flawed and one sided logic to support that desire. For example thousands of tests for non key workers playing football you staunchly defend because it helps to get back football, whereas one solitary test for another non key worker who you despise outrages you. You use all of the countries who have or plan to restart their leagues as a precedent to support your desperation to get football back on in this country and remain blissfully ignorant to those countries that have null and voided their season. You also have repeatedly displayed a lack of empathy and ability to understand others and their different opinions so it is unsurprising that you assume and state unequivocally that viewing figures would go up. You are IMO in denial as to how diluted an alternative behind closed doors football is. For example, if Rovers managed to launch a genuine unlikely play off push do you think your feeling would be anything similar to if it happened in normal times in front of fans? I know it wouldnt to me and indeed the normal elation would probably be replaced by a mixture of detachment and even irritation that when a rare season of success comes about, we can not enjoy it at the time and even the reward of playing in a higher league would be behind closed doors too. Take Liverpool, they are desperate I am sure to clinch the title but even if and when they do, it will be anticlimatic and the expected feeling of joy and elation will be almost totally removed. I am not claiming that I am so rigid in my opinion that I would cut my nose off to spite my face and refuse to watch out of principle. I think that perhaps for flawed financial reasons that the current mindset is to get football back in any form as soon as possible. I personally think the mindset should be to play as little sanitised, half arsed behind closed doors football as possible. But ultimately months into a lockdown, I will still watch it passively as something to do even if it is not with the usual strong passion and interest.

One thing that I would say is that there is a further hint of hypocricy in your arguments when you were so enraged that Piers Morgan took up a test whereas you are staunchly defending footballers taking tests. Ultimately as is usually the case your arguments are flawed based on your personal wants and needs, you dislike Piers Morgan whereas you want to see the football back. I half watched the Bayern game earlier and in terms of being eventful, Bayern went 3 up, Frankfurt pulled 2 back before Bayern got a further 2. Usually such a game would have people gripped but it was incredibly difficult to see it as anything other than a meaningless training game. Even if Bayern win the league, would it really matter to anyone in the current situation? Even beyond all of the questions regarding player safety, player welfare/opinions and the morality of testing etc. I do wonder about the longjevity of whether a couple of months down the line, whether the numbers in terms of viewers would be sustainable. When English football returns I suspect there will be some excitement initially but once people tune in to the sanitised product which unfortunately is the only possibility, I suspect that novelty will wear off.

I just didnt really get the rationale behind selecting the specific players you mentioned as players who will thrive behind closed doors, thats all. For example Nyambe I think did look very nervous when he came in but this season he has been consistent in front of crowds. Maybe you are right in suggesting that we could benefit from playing behind closed doors but I am not sure on how much evidence there is to support it. Regarding him as a player, ultimately he scored very few goals at Forest (of course he is young), ultimately he broke through at a time when they were in the bottom half, a year or two later and he couldnt make the matchday squad anymore. The best game he has ever had was in front of possibly one of the biggest crowds he will have played in front of and on TV too. Ultimately I think he was a player who had one stand out game as a young lad and maybe without that a 7m fee would have been unthinkable. There is definitely the pressure of a big price tag but for example the booing at Birmingham was 18 months into his time following repeated poor and to be honest half arsed performances. And I don't think the Blackburn End or indeed Ewood in general is the fickle hotbed you imply at all, indeed you see the reaction when he scored v Bolton, I do think at times people overstate how supposedly demanding we can be.

Admittance at the beginning of this that a vaccine mass produced in 2020 is unlikely.

That may be the case, but the main reason that he manages to score against a soon to be extinct Bury and Doncasters kids is because of the standard of opposition.

I suspect the primary reason that Brereton has had his best games in pre season and in under 23 games is because of the standard of opposition to be fair, its not really achievement scoring in a friendly against a Bury side who were about to go out of business and could barely name a side or against a Doncaster kids team. I think id have fancied my chances. I feel it is a little presumptious personally to second guess the mentality of the squad in this way but there may be some in our squad like in others who would prefer a less pressurised environment, who knows, but then again if a player cannot play in front of a crowd then hes no good for a Championship team.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8341697/amp/Kante-opts-Nervous-Chelsea-star-skips-sides-latest-training-session-coronavirus-fears.html Kante another player not going back.

You are so inconsistent with your points. You admit more than once that the situation is unprecedent and unexpected yet speak about relegation and promotion as if its a normal season with your main reason being the contents of a meeting you have no idea what was said in. Its totally bizarre and illogical. You have just echoed my point about Hull. They are an example of teams voting not for what they think is right but what suits them in terms of league position. You wouldnt have this problem ahead of a new season. I have never said that promotion and relegation wont happen, I know it clearly will but that doesnt mean it should or I think it is correct. And as expected, you have been unable to provide any comeback about my series of ways how the integrity is totally and unavoidably destroyed because there arent any.

So relegations and promotions are an absolute must, and your reason is because this Clarke fells has said so in a meeting to which you are totally unaware of what was actually said or what the reasons are? And that satisfies you? If you dont have a reason, then you cant use it within your argument. The testing is another issue in regards to the morals of using up so many tests to enable teams to have half arsed glorified friendlies. League 2 clubs are quite clearly in unison because it is absolutely impossible to expect any teams at that level to be able to put in place all of the hygeine precautions, to be able to further burden the number of tests required across the country to play these games, and also the cost of the testing and bringing players off furlough, and extending contracts that are about to expire to make the numbers up to play the games. Clubs are naturally voting based on their own self interests as you would expect and understand rather than on the morality of it all. The bigger teams around the play offs are voting to finish the season, led by the loud mouth egotist that is Peterborough's chairman who loves the sound of his own voice. Even in the Championship, Hull have stated that they dont want to finish the season. Do you think that is a genuine ethical opinion that the season shouldnt be finished, or more the case that their season was in free fall with a poor squad unable to cope with selling 2 key players and they were lingering above the drop zone just about after a series of losses? What surely HAS to happen is that if the season is completed against all logic, the point whereby a division that is completed meets one that isnt, NO promotions or relegations can take place between them leagues. Points per game bollocks deciding which teams take the place of teams who have played full seasons is inconsistent, unfair and quite frankly idiotic. The integrity CANNOT be maintained by finishing the season, no matter how much you want it to be. - Four teams have played one less game, meaning that they have to play more of their fixtures behind closed doors. - Teams will have different difficulties of run ins that again effects the integrity. They also have differing balances of home and away games. For example Brighton have more home games than away games. What if they go down - 5 subs is another rule that will further impact on the integrity. What if a 4th or 5th sub scores the goal that sends someone down etc? - Many players will either be reluctant or totally refuse to play. What if Watford go down with a captain unable to risk playing due to having a young boy at high risk? - Teams will gain advantages (including ourselves) due to playing again with players that have recovered from injuries. Our season had stuttered with 3 points in 4 games prior to the season stopping. Once it returns, key players such as Holtby and Evans are back again. Is that fair? I just think it is far easier to scrap things for now, give it a couple of months, re-evaluate and crucially plan for a season in which the various logistics can be planned before teams have personal agendas, whether it be number or difficulty of games played, position in the league etc. I thought that the government wanted to finish it for the feeble reason to "boost the countrys morale" rather than the fanciful idea of the TV money trickling down and saving the day for clubs in the lower leagues?

Very interesting point regarding the approach. As you say, when games become glorified friendlies surely developing players becomes more of a priority. I suppose that the problem for us is that we have voids in our squad in 3 positions in terms of not having players contracted to play in net and at left back next season, and we only have 2 centre backs, one of whom is Derrick Williams. As much as we lack natural wingers and perhaps up front with Gallagher and Brereton misfiring, those sorts of problems can no longer be prioritises to strengthen and indeed become luxuries we almost certainly cannot afford. I wouldnt be surprised to see Bell and Leutwiler given deals just because its the easiest choice but I hope not and surely there are better players even on a free than those 2. It seems a little bit presumptuous IMO to assume that all of them players are hamstrung by playing in front of crowds, Brereton for example has been pretty dismal in basically every game, horrendous v Birmingham in front of a nearly empty stadium but having the best game of his career against Arsenal on TV in front of a big crowd. And i think Nyambe has just progressed from the nervy player we initially saw. But to be fair players incapable of playing in front of crowds are of no use to us anyway. Dack said yesterday that he is targeting to be back for the start of the 20-21 season, whenever that is, but with money presumably in short supply across the country, I can't see a queue of teams spending big money on a player not fully recovered from such a serious injury. Lets hope we see him in a Rovers shirt again.

You keep repeatedly saying this without actually stating what that reason is or even mentioning it any further, perhaps to be purposely cryptic in order to not directly address the point. My personal opinion has remained that the season shouldnt be finished by playing out glorified training games at a time of high risk, but of course that seems to be going to be the case. But it is crazy that there is going to be relegation and promotion between leagues whereby one is finished and one isnt. That cant happen if the FA is in anyway serious about maintaining the integrity of the game, which they clearly arent. Regarding VAR, I have seen it mentioned that it may be difficult to have the VAR dependant on where the matches are played. It is one of a number of areas whereby the integrity would be jeapordised. The idea of the TV money trickling down the Football League is in my opinion a bit of an idealistic fantasy.

Dack is still months off full fitness, I dont see many teams signing a player still to recover from such a bad injury. Plus hes our best player. Surely any clubs cant wrecklessly still spend loads of money in the current situation. You cant complain about the dinancial impact of coronavirus then go around signing players for big money. Hopefully at least reduce the furore around the silly event that deadline day has become. Suspect that we might sign a couple of cheap freebies to fill gaps and little else. Sub par players like Bell and Samuel will be given an extra year I am sure. With at least half of next season behind closed doors it is little to get excited about signing players we wont see!

I am of the opinion that I dont see how it can be justified to rush through the finish to the season. Another big if maybe slightly less important reason compared to health and safety, player welfare and the immorality of using up testing unncessarily is the inconsistencies it creates in terms of integrity. If any leagues finish then it means that there has to be a stage whereby a league that has been finished meets and has teams relegated to a league that hasnt been finished whereby they have to make up a flawed system to justify then promoting teams to replace those relegated teams. Ive been told that there HAS to be promotions and relegations but never any reasons why. There doesnt. Thats before factoring in teams playing additional home or away games in front of fans prior to the postponement, a 4th and 5th sub, potentially no use of VAR etc. But it is somewhat unfair to say that Leagues 1 and 2 are being allowed to go to the wall because the financial tapestry of clubs in these leagues is totally different. The Premier League is heavily reliant on TV deals which could theoretically still be completed even if games were behind closed doors. The lack of money from paying supporters is a blow but they would still potentially be able to still fully pay their player wages and also any necessary testing costs. That is totally different from the football league especially Leagues 1 and 2 whereby any TV money is minimal and they are heavily reliant on ticket sales. With this obviously not an option, no matter how much effort was put in to get these leagues on behind closed doors, baring in mind currently furloughed players would need to go back to 100%, that player contracts could need extending beyond June 30th to complete the season with a full team and any testing and hygeine costs, its a no goer, its not negligent or prioritising the strong to say that.

6 players in the Prem have tested positive now.

"I can't get a haircut until mid-July but I can go and get in a box with 19 people and go and jump for a header and nobody could answer the questions, not because they didn't want to, just because they don't know the information." This was a quote that showed how illogical it all is.

Fair play to Troy Deeney as well who has refused to go back to training because he has a little boy with breathing difficulties and carrying the further risk of being from a BAME background. He has said that his families health is more important than the financial side and I am sure he isnt the only player with such a stance.

According to gossip we have yes. Experience may be preferable but amongst many other key criteria, notably quality. If you want an experienced keeper, surely David Seaman would be a good addition? Or less jokingly, someone like Lee Camp, Jason Steele or Adam Federeci, all experienced but all shite? Just because he is experienced doesnt mean he is the one. Interestingly, even during last season when he was supposed to have impressed most for Sunderland, he missed out on the League team of the season to Adam Davies who has since collected dust as third choice at struggling Stoke. I am just pointing out that his calibre is hardly one that in normal circumstances, would have a promotion chasing side jumping for joy. That doesnt mean that he isnt up to it, players that I have been skeptical about in the past who I have had more knowledge about have flourished for Rovers, and conversely players that I have been excited about have underwhelmed or crashed and burned. As it is, my main point that we could be signing anyone and it would be difficult to be overly excited simply because there is a good chance we wont see them play for a long while. With income very limited for the forseeable and money presumably scarce, being pro-active and agreeing to sign a freebie such as this to fill a void considering that we dont have any contracted goalkeepers signed up for next season may be a shrewd move. My main opinion was not a negative one regarding the player, it was about the overall situation and how it may make the signing a better one than expected. In regards to your fanciful ideas about vaccines, this isnt really the thread but it remains to be seen whether a vaccine will ever be created and indeed whether it isnt a judgement call regarding the current rate of infection rather than the full closure of a vaccine as to when the players no longer need to go through the motions behind closed doors. No matter how many speculative and optimistic articles you post about vaccine progress at this stage, I suspect that before the turn of the year, never mind September, for the vaccine to have been created, trialled and tested and then mass produced would be an incredibly welcome but unexpected pleasant surprise.