Think, subject to new signings, we need to start Armstrong and Rothwell over Smallwood and Palmer, and impose our game from the start. As Mowbray said post-match, we need to get a first win as soon as we can, Hull is a winnable game.

One thing I differ on with you 2 is I still feel like its premature to credit Venkys for their intentions. I judge them on what they do, not what they plan/intend to do. Historically they are very volatile in terms of one minute wanting to invest, then turning off the tap. Therefore, assuming the money is spent in the loan to buy market, or in Jan, then I will happily credit them then. If the money doesnt even materialise at a later day, then such inconsistencies do not warrant praise. If they do spend the money I will happily praise them. I dont think theres anything stopping us getting loan to buys in the rest of the window. If Brereton is the man, or whoever, agree a loan with obligation to buy, youve essentially bought him, and credit shall be forthcoming. Mowbrays comments about short-termism are a concern. In theory, reasonable wages but fees on players that can develop are a viable system, lets see if it works in practice, ultimately that depends on if they are consistent with it, and then if they are, if Mowbray can sign the correct players. We ideally need a striker in the squad next week, as well as a winger.

Poor result and in the main a disappointing performance, need to get that first win to kick start the season. First half, we were appalling. Lethargic, constant unforced errors, slow, boring to watch and they should have had at least 2. Second half for 25 minutes we were much better, much more like our usual selves, and should have scored and got the win. Then we ran out of ideas. Players wise, Raya had no saves of not, the post were his best friend, but his kicking was atrocious. Back 4 all fine, both centre backs had lapses in terms of when on the ball, but both are more than good enough when fit, we know that. Bell was an improvement on Williams, should be first choice. Nyambe very cautious when he gets so far but hes progressing well. That back 4, more than happy with. Smallwood was the worst player on the pitch, needs dropping. Evans similar in the first half, couldnt pick a pass, but much improved second half. Bennett offered nothing going forward, said beforehand that im not sure he warrants a spot in the front 4, he was guilty more than anyone of a series of aimless crosses that played into their centre backs hands. That said, excellent tenacity, work rate and I think is more at home in the middle, with Evans. Palmer lost all discipline in terms of positioning, causing the game to get a bit congested, his final ball/output was zilch, his passing awful and took far too many risks. That said, certainly has some skill and flair that we need to harness and I hope he has far better days than today, im sure he will. Not convinced he can play wide but he will have to due to Dack. Dack was quiet for his standards, and Graham did superbly to out-strength the defender on his first one on one, and somehow outpaced them both times, but has to score at least 1, should have squared the first to Dack. Nothing in the tank after an hour, tried but was a passenger, hence the disappointment of not getting in a striker sooner. Armstrong looked like he had his feet tied together at first but his pace is something we totally lack elsewhere. He will do well though. Rothwell was quite impressive travelling with the ball, end product questionable, decent shot, think he has said to Mowbray maybe he should start at Hull, definitely in the cup. Travis a bit sloppy to be honest. Transfer wise, nothing we didnt know. We need another target man before anything else. We also need a pacy winger, as we dont have one. Centre back we need cover, we also need an upgrade on Smallwood.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16413310.they-werent-the-only-bids-rovers-boss-on-the-transfer-window/?ref=mac Lets debunk a couple of myths. “It was always the same,” Mowbray said of his budget. “The budget was agreed when I went over to India in the summer and the budget has always been the budget." Seems that Nixons theory that Venkys "killed a few chickens recently" to give us a sudden boost in the budget was actually a lie. "Mowbray was disappointed he wasn’t able to add to the three permanent signings made before the window closed on Thursday." People have been ridiculed for showing frustration, showing disappointment at how the window went. I even said to @chaddyrovers that I bet even Mowbray is disappointed to not sign players, and so it has proved. So rather than pretend that everything went to plan, and that everything is hunky dory, it didnt and theres proof. He also said the following: “It’s just frustrating that we had the opportunity to spend some money to try and improve this club long-term for the next four or five years, we missed the opportunity, it didn’t quite happen. “But this short-termism of loans we will try and add some players who will excite the fans and help the team as we go on as when injuries and suspensions come, as the team will have to push harder than last year, some bodies will break down as we go on, we need to have some experience and quality waiting in the wings to make sure we don’t fall off the pace.” That doesnt suggest that signing everyone on loan with an obligation to buy is necessarily what he has planned. Hence the phrase "short-termism." "I’m sure if we’re doing okay then that funding will still be there for the next window." - just hope the money doesnt vanish.

I think the main reason that Mowbray would play him there as he trusts him to do the dirty work going back, same with Conway. He definitely has offensive quality, he scored a few cracking goals at the end of our last Championship season and I have seen him cross well before. But last season, he only got 2 goals and 5 assists, and thats in League 1. If he is to be considered a more attacking player, he needs to produce goals and assists. A point I was shot down numerous times last season for suggesting, because in particular the first half of the season, he was poor as a winger.

As much as he has also played wide, as is common with a young lad who is still growing, from the very limited that I've seen, he is far more of a number 9 than Gallagher, even being a few years younger, Gallagher as a lone striker which we play would be ineffectual, when he was here he played in a 2 with Graham, a luxury that wont be afforded to him now we have better players such as Dack and Palmer to play off the striker. (Plus playing 2 up left us even more open that season defensively) Gallagher under Mowbray played quite a few games wide from what I recall, he clearly doesnt trust him as a central striker. Now in those areas, we are in far better shape, would you drop Armstrong for Gallagher, considering Armstrongs quality and also the fact that he looks far more comf Gallagher is getting to an age where its problematic that no one really knows how best to use him. Hes never a lone centre forward as a target man, which is what we need so that should be the end of the discussion on his signing to me! And hes far too clumsy to be a wide forward in my opinion. I'm not necessarily sure that Mowbray is against the idea of a focal point, hence his obvious faith and importance on Graham. He's had Gallagher, Armstrong and Samuel and has never trusted any of them for a prolonged spell down the middle, because he reverts back to Graham as a 9 as he can trust him there.

But is that the type of player we need, a striker with pace to play wide, when we have Armstrong? We need someone to take the physical burden off Graham in terms of being a focal point, a target man, bringing others into play with his back to goal.

Not convinced that Armstrong has any major question marks in terms of work rate and tracking back. Not a fan of defensive wingers as Mowbray calls them, as much as I appreciate that your wide men need to be somewhat defensively responsible (which is why Samuels inclusion there is an odd one, hes the worst for tracking back) you also need to offer an offensive threat from that position, which is why for all of Bennett's work rate, he has to do more going forward, goals and assists. Assuing Bennett is going to start wide one one side, I just hope Armstrong or Palmer start on the other, someone with a genuine attacking threat rather than Samuel. With Samuel, he offers nothing at all going forward from the wing and he doesnt track back.

You think Gallagher is a bigger goal threat than Armstrong?

Definitely not Gallagher, he would be a lazy suggestion based on being here previously. I know for a fact after watching for a season that he is not what we need as a number 9, he can't hold the ball up, hes too weak, he cant act as a focal point and he cant win flick ons. His goal record is poor, and his spells at Birmingham and MK Dons add further doubt to his ability at this level. I doubt we could afford his price on a permanent deal anyway, plus his wages were a big discussion topic when he joined Birmingham in a financially stupid loan deal last year. I only specifically remember watching Brereton once, v a weakened Arsenal in the cup. He led the line in a way Gallagher never did during his time here, he was excellent in the way he . His goal record is very poor however, like Gallagher Only way this deal should be considered is if it is with a view to a permanent deal, as based on his current ability he wouldnt be worth a loan deal, we'd be buying potential. To answer your question, I think I would rather look elsewhere. But I definitely dont want Gallagher, and am more open minded on Brereton, more based on the type of player he looked when I saw him, albeit only once, and the way Forest fans seem to rate him, but he wouldnt dislodge Graham yet, thats for sure. If Gallagher signed, I would be very underwhelmed and a bit disappointed. If Brereton signed, as long as it was with a permanent deal to take effect in Jan, I would be interested to see how he got on, and feel he would come straight into the squad, and could help Graham with the work load.

Emmanuel-Thomas is a number 10, hes quite slow, hes incredibly inconsistent and lazy and nowhere near the quality of Dack and Graham. Hes League 1 quality at a push. Turnbull, id rather just stick with Leutwiler. Kirchoff is injury prone and barely played for Bolton last season. Rodwell is clearly someone with a big attitude problem with fitness and wage issues. If they were all available tomorrow for the game none would make the bench. We need players to improve the first team.

Emmanuel-Thomas, Turnbull, Rodwell and Kirchoff are beyond the bottom of the barrel.

His main problem is and always will be injuries. He has always shown composure, he is neat and tidy, and quite intelligent. Never gets a prolonged run in the side hence the lack of consistency. If I remember, he was a breath of fresh air when he came into the side, and he has had spells and games, I remember the Forest game at home in our last Championship season, he was very good. Towards the end of last season, he played quite a few games in a row for a couple of months and really got into his stride. Not sure its just a lack of desire, more a lack of fitness over a length period of time.

I think he was one of our best players in the last couple of months last season. A view Mowbray has publically agreed with.

Wasn't that the guy that was clearly making it up, and you even said that to him?

Id be very dissapointed if Samuel was picked over Armstrong and Palmer.

Its not bloody negative and defeatist to say when you want something and you dont get it, that its disappointing! Stop being so childish. If you asked Mowbray, I bet hes disappointed that he didnt get the players he wanted too.

No one doubts that he is TRYING to make the right decisions. Its just, regarding the window, hes not made the right decisions, or if he has, hes failed to act successfully on those right decisions. Everyone trusts him, that hes doing his best, hes working hard, but hes ultimately failed to get not only what we wanted and could see we needed as supporters, but im sure he will be disappointing himself. I get that theres reasons why deals get delayed, there can be a domino effect, but he kept saying he had lists of various players he wanted. You mention Brereton but if that was a player we had in mind, surely a time crops up before the last day, precisely the last hour, before you spring it on the player even if the bid is accepted to move to a new team, that you try and force the issue sooner or move elsewhere, you make the decision. Take Bauer for example as well, he was clearly our number 1 target at centre back, but Mowbray said he had moved on, his unavailability was clear a while back, so surely get the wheels in motion for another deal to get over the line. And im not saying panic buy any old crap, but if there are names on a list, surely they are all players he feel would improve us or they wouldnt be on the list in the first place. Regarding being satisfied at the end of August, I hope you are right. And I agree that its not the end of the world, I still think wed survive but it wouldnt take much more to allow us to be more fanciful of a much higher finish.

You're becoming a parody of yourself, you dont listen to what anyone says, and your sole argument is to stop being negative and have faith, which is not constructive. People are judging him on an individual aspect, his performance in the transfer market. He had the money, he had the lists, the targets, and he failed to address various key positions. The reason that I presume people are praising Hurst because he had targets in mind, for various positions, on a budget, and got them all in, regardless of whether you rate them. Mowbray didnt do this. If Mowbray picks a strange team, or makes bad subs on Saturday and we lose points because of it, I'll criticise. You wont. Doesn't mean I will have lost faith in him. If Mowbray does well with his team and subs and we win, I'll praise him, as you will. If Dack misses an open net, or Mulgrew scores an own goal, they will get criticised. Doesnt mean people have a pathetic lack of faith in them. (And you are clearly lying, you said for months you wanted Jon Nolan here but thats beside the point) How many people have said they have lost faith in Mowbray, or that he should go? No one. I dont know why I have bothered to type this out because youll read it, ignore it and tell me to get behind him, or to have faith, or to stop being negative. You'd get a lot more respect and people would find conversation with you a lot easier if you followed up on your points. Your posts are so one sided. You wanted a striker, a centre back, and a winger. Mowbray failed to get them despite having targets and lists. Yet for some reason, you refuse to accept that its disappointing that we didnt get them.

No im criticising for not getting signings done, yes it isnt easy but if you have the money, as he said he did, lists of targets, and dont bring any in then it is a dissapointment, something I think youve acknowledged in fairness. Agreed on that plus Armstrong is a big plus. All points I did acknowledge in the opening post, there are positives but overall I am dissapointed because in quite a few areas we havent strengthened. That said I reckon Mowbray will be frustrated or dissapointed himself.

But he said we had money, so even if they weren't targets, he has said he has money and not spent any since he said it. But if he had it, why leave it so late, and if that was the case and he had all these lists of targets, why couldnt he get any over the line? So has Conway but experience in the league is not enough. I would prefer someone more dynamic and capable of stretching the play. Gallagher, has he got better, he was much worse last season. And he isnt the focal point we need for our better players to work off, Dack, Armstrong, Palmer etc. When Graham inevitably comes off most weeks, we need someone similar. Games like on Saturday where we need to game manage, Gallagher would have been as ineffective as Nuttall at holding it up.

Obviously hyperbole is natural, a horrific window is an exaggeration, of that il give you. And there is, on both sides of the argument, people who exaggerate and are unreasonable. But you can judge individual aspects of the managers performance without losing total faith in him. Just as if he picks a questionable team, or makes questionable subs on Saturday and we lose, people will criticise him. Or if he signs Adam Armstrong, or if he gets us a win with the correct team or a clever sub, he will get praise. Just like I can credit Coyle for signing Mulgrew, and I never had faith in him at any point. I don't understand why people are so reluctant to criticise when he does make mistakes, or does things that could be interpreted in a negative way. He said he had money, had targets, and hes not got them over the line. Its ok to say that. But ive not seen one person suggesting that they want him sacked or anything, so its not fair to suggest that so many have lost faith in him.

Surely its a very far fetched theory to suggest that we spent the last 24 hours of the window trying to unsettle rival players rather than actually filling the voids in our own squad. We apparently had money to spend, hence the quotes by Mowbray and the bids for Freeman and Brereton, surely its natural to be disappointing that the money wasnt spent sooner, well at all. I'm not saying that signing players is easy but by not bringing in someone to fill the obvious voids, at least some of them, is dissapointed and due to the lateness of them bids, its natural to question the strategy of the manager. Doesn't mean hes not done a good job etc, but as an individual criticism, its IMO fair. In regards to them 2 targets, Pilkington isnt the direct winger we need, nor is Gallagher an effective target man.

Thats the main thing for me. Its unprofessional, clumsy, unplanned, bidding 5m for a player in the last hour of the window, does not suggest that Mowbray knew exactly what he wanted. Mentioned waiting for targets, and different lists, surely all these theoretically good ideas are not borne into practice by making 2 bids in the last 24 hours that eclipse any of the business weve done in the months prior.

Wouldnt you say that bidding 5m for someone who "wasnt top of our list" is not within the sensible spending mantra that you have stated that we need to adhere to? How do you know that our aim is simply and solely to stay up? I don't think anyone is saying we should be in the promotion mix necessarily, but its an open league, teams of a similar size have been in and around the play offs in recent years, and with a bit of a push and the momentum you could never rule it out. Id hazard a guess that less than half of the fan base would be satisfied with 21st, for example.