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Kidd in 99


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#41 BPF

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:10 PM

For some reason, people get really upset when the following is mentioned but I'll say it anyway...

It's a helluva lot easier to 'turn your back'; 'cut all ties'; 'take the moral high ground' (choose your cliché) about renewal when you live thousands of miles away. It's much more difficult a decision when it's on your doorstep...


I don't deny that.

It's funny how no matter what I say, it will never leave me though. My wife can't believe that every phonecall back home turns into a Rovers discussion within three minutes...
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#42 Majiball

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:13 PM

I was working the night we went down, nipping into the drawing room as often as I could (I almost saw the whole match) and when that final whistle blew I fell on my knees and cried in front of all our customers. Went to go home, stopped at the pub next door and drank myself stupid before starting a ball fight in McDonalds. I was miserable for quite sometime after that night, irritable and angry. Alas this ones been on the cards all season and the sun hasn't shone on our pall white asses so I've had time to come to terms with it all. I know the club have no clue what they are doing from top to toe and that there's nothing that can be done to avert the coming doom.
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#43 roverandout

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:27 PM

difference between then and now? jansen, duff and an up and coming dunn, pluss money to spend, a chairman/owner who knew what he was doing and a far inferior division 1/championship.

#44 Stuart

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:34 PM

I don't deny that.

It's funny how no matter what I say, it will never leave me though. My wife can't believe that every phonecall back home turns into a Rovers discussion within three minutes...

That made me smile. And a little sad.

The difference between then and now? This time it feels like watching a coffin being wheeled into a hearse rather than a patient being wheeled into an ambulance.

And we've had 18 months watching it die.

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#45 Veevs

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:40 PM

Biggest difference for me is not the manager but the total uncertainty surrounding the club, back then we knew and loved our Jack and knew without a doubt he was Rovers and we would be back.. this time come the end of the season we don't have a clue what will happen, our owners are so unpredictable that literally anything could happen to our beloved club.

Then:

Manager: 5, not a great manager by any stretch of the imagination but honesty, integrity and heart counted for allot
Team: 6, less skill IMO and not the same potential but more of a togetherness and fighting spirit
Owners: 10, we had Jack
Management team: 10, We had a proper setup and every supporter knew they would do the job
Future outlook: 10, none of us fooled ourselves that we would be winning the premier league any time soon but we knew we would bounce back
Financial situation: 10, we all felt finance wise we where secure and well run
Us Fans: 10, together and knew where we stood
The League: 8, More exciting with less of a split between rich and poor and a much more competitive league

Now:

Manager: -10, awful tactics, poor management, awful man management, an extreme liar, deluded and backed by the worst set of spin doctors you could imagine
Team: 7, Has IMO more potential and some better players but no heart
Owners: -10, Unpredictable and seemingly do not give a damn about their investment
Management team: -10, Kean seems to be doing that role as well and extremely poorly
Future outlook: 0, Complete unknown, chance of doing a Luton, possible fire-sale,
Financial situation: 0, utter unknown but it seems fairly obvious there are issues
Us Fans: 0, Split, restless, on the whole pesssimistic and generally unhappy
The League: 5, More big money clubs but an awful lot of poor teams as well
Interesting fact.. David Dunn is the name of the hero (played by Bruce Willis) in the movie Unbreakable.. A man who can't ever be hurt..

#46 roverandout

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:46 PM

sorry veevs dont agree about the playing staff, this team cant hold a candle to the 99 team, duff, jansen and dunn of old would bury this team, dont forgot we had the likes of sherwood at some point in the season too, he would make n'nonzi look the amateur he is, henchoz was far better than any defenders we have now, i could go on, i agree with your other points though

#47 onlyonejackwalker

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:55 PM

sorry veevs dont agree about the playing staff, this team cant hold a candle to the 99 team, duff, jansen and dunn of old would bury this team, dont forgot we had the likes of sherwood at some point in the season too, he would make n'nonzi look the amateur he is, henchoz was far better than any defenders we have now, i could go on, i agree with your other points though


Duff, Dunn and Jansen from back then? That team would be 3.0 up before half time against the current team.

With reference to the last game of that season away at the Geordies, we were also singing 'The Premier League, is upside down' chant.

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#48 m1st

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 20:04 PM

With reference to the last game of that season away at the Geordies, we were also singing 'The Premier League, is upside down' chant.


True; I'd forgotten that one, oojw.
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#49 Pedro

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 22:03 PM

To be fair Jim, Hodgeson's first season was decent and his managerial record was very good before he joined us. I don't think anybody was massively disappointed when he was given the manager's position and it was only in Woy's second season that the whole thing went pear-shaped.

Appointing Kidd was a big mistake, though, and a strange one. I'm sure we could have done better.


Appointing Harford for loyalty reasons in 96 is where it all went wrong. We can't blame Jack for making some really bad choices because without him there wouldn't be the dream journey. Truth is though, he made a lot of major mistakes after the exit of Kenny (who really understood the game and could really spot a player back in the day). Post 95 we wasted time and millions in transfers, we stalled straight after we won the title when Kenny moved upstairs, stagnated whilst waiting for Sven to muck us about, then self destructed when things turned sour for Hodgson and Kidd just wasn't up to task. Don't anyone be fooled, the squad were as hopeless and gutless in 99 are they are now and in both era's the team lacked a proper manager.

Football itself has changed massively since the 90's. Roy Keane was going to join us for an unimaginal wage at the time of 350k a year...run of the mill players like Samba got that every 5 or six weeks. Times have changed so much that even Jack couldn't fund a championship winning side in this day and age...but at least we'd know his motives and that his heart was always in the right place.

#50 Veevs

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 22:35 PM

Duff, Dunn and Jansen from back then? That team would be 3.0 up before half time against the current team.

With reference to the last game of that season away at the Geordies, we were also singing 'The Premier League, is upside down' chant.

Very true mate, I went by the team that Rog posted on the previous page which isnt actually the seasons top starters and includes the likes of Jansen who had not arrived, so long back could not remember what season players came/went.. so will need to correct that.

The actual team based on starts (taken from wiki but checked on transfermrkt)
GK: #13, Australia John Filan, 26
RB: #2, Republic of Ireland Jeff Kenna, 22
CB: #5, England Darren Peacock, 27
CB: #6, Switzerland Stéphane Henchoz, 34
LB: #3, Scotland Callum Davidson, 34
RM: #11, England Jason Wilcox, 28
CM: #19, Northern Ireland Damien Johnson, 14 (#17, Scotland Billy McKinlay, also has 14 starts)
CM: #4, England Tim Sherwood, 19
LM: #12, Republic of Ireland Damien Duff, 18
CF: #9, England Chris Sutton, 17
CF: #32, England Ashley Ward, 17

Squad also included, Kevin Davies (who did well later in his career), Croft, Gallacher, Flowers, Jason McAteer, Christian Dailly, Gary Flitcroft, Dunn, Keith Gillespie (2nd half of the season.. pretty injury ravaged during the season and Flitcroft, McAteer, Davies and Dunn did not feature much as to young (blimey it was that long ago).

I should of known better than to not check the team myself lol. Noting some players arrived and others left I would think only Givet, Robinson, Samba (yes I know he is now gone but did feature in this seasons squad), Yakuba and Jnr would get into that side but the squad in 98/99 as a whole was MUCH stronger and with Dunn, Flitcroft, Davies, McAteer and Duff had more potential.

Edited by Veevs, 17 April 2012 - 22:39 PM.

Interesting fact.. David Dunn is the name of the hero (played by Bruce Willis) in the movie Unbreakable.. A man who can't ever be hurt..

#51 Pedro

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 22:59 PM

Having read through the thread I can't help but feel people are trying to paint the team of 99 as an unlucky, half decent squad...they were awful. Nathan Blake, Ashley Ward, Billy McKinlay, Alan Fettis, Dario Marcolin, Kevin Davies, Jason Mcateer, Darren Peacock, Christian Dailly, Callum Davidson etc. were all absolute rubbish. Like now there was no strong spine to the team and very limited creativity (the likes of Duff, Dunn and later in the day Jansen were just kids with little experience). Like Samba, Sherwood did his captain's duty and led by example by rocking the boat until he got his own way.

#52 rog of the rovers

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 23:38 PM

As I mentioned in my earlier post Duff, Dunn and Jansen didnt hit their true form until the 2000/2001 promotion season.

Edited by rog of the rovers, 17 April 2012 - 23:39 PM.

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#53 steverovers

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 00:56 AM

If the '99 team had played this season (Including manager) we would have stayed up in my opinion.

#54 Veevs

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:56 AM

If the '99 team had played this season (Including manager) we would have stayed up in my opinion.

Agree there, the league is less competitive IMO there is seemingly a much bigger divide between the teams with money and those without.
Interesting fact.. David Dunn is the name of the hero (played by Bruce Willis) in the movie Unbreakable.. A man who can't ever be hurt..

#55 DE.

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:56 AM

Appointing Harford for loyalty reasons in 96 is where it all went wrong.


Again, though, Harford was generally considered the muscle behind Kenny's success. There was no reason to think he couldn't make the step up, he'd been around the squad long enough. Much like Kidd, we probably could have gotten somebody better, but I don't think the logic behind appointing Harford was bad. He just couldn't make the step up. Agree with the rest of your post.

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#56 Mattyblue

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:05 AM

Jack was making mistakes and letting emotion get in the way, I believe that was a reason Williams was appointed.

#57 bradeagle

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

Again, though, Harford was generally considered the muscle behind Kenny's success. There was no reason to think he couldn't make the step up, he'd been around the squad long enough. Much like Kidd, we probably could have gotten somebody better, but I don't think the logic behind appointing Harford was bad. He just couldn't make the step up. Agree with the rest of your post.

At the time is was a massive coup getting kidd - snatching fergies number 2. i rememer that charlton match with fond memories when he was in the stand giving croft an ear full, came one to touch line gave him some more. Got changed into his tracksuit at half time! KD scuffed in a winner and it was all looking good. Then the signings came!

#58 mhead

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:10 AM

If Samba had stayed we would have not got relegated.

This whole sad farce is self-inflicted.Only losers are the long-term fans.

#59 bradeagle

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:12 AM

Its strange but looking back at that period it feels positive compared to now.

#60 dannydisco

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:13 AM

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It's interesting looking at how things turned back around in 2001. When did Williams arrive and what sort of changes did he impose and what did Souness bring? I can't help thinking that if Venkys are adamant on staying around then re-enstating those two back with big golden hellos would sort us out again.

Edited by dannydisco, 18 April 2012 - 11:18 AM.





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