[Archived] Sam's Rovers Record

[jim mk2]

In any circumstances a win percentage of 35 percent isnt good enough for progression.

Sam lifted this club up from the depths of the relegation zone and saved us from relegation, so that's progress. Then he improved on that with a higher league placing the following season, so that's more progress. And until he was unceremonously dumped he probably would have improved on his record again this season, so that would have been more progress. This is all a nonsense anyway - he's gone and the club will have to live with the unfortunate consequences.

[riverside returns]

Of course comparison of people like Kendall and Allardyce are irrelevant however, take the position that you can only get a win of you score more than the opposition then it matters not what league you are in, what the financial position was or who was doing better, you only play who is in your league, at your level for that period of time.

So then, all the records are relevant and comparable.

[philipl]

Average win rates would only be relevant had Sam continued longer in post.

If you look at the question- did Sam achieve what he was hired to do?

The answer in an unequivocal yes.

Going through the list of past Managers, the answer to did they do what they were hired to do looks like this:

Yes

Kenny Dlaglish

Mark Hughes

Sam Allardyce

Howard Kendal

Jim Smith

Gordon Lee

Yes, but

Bobby Saxton

Don Mackay

Graeme Souness

No

Jim Iley

Ray Harford

Roy Hodgson

Brian Kidd

Ince

[chocky]

So how did Sam compare to the men who previously led the Blue and White Army. Below are some stats I have pinched from the official website's messageboard:

Kenny Dalglish : W 102 L 47 D 46. Win ratio 52.3%

Howard Kendall: W 41 D 27 L 21. Win ratio 46.1%

Mark Hughes: W 82 D 47 L 59. Win ratio 43.6%

Graeme Souness: W 86 D 61 L 65. Win ratio 40.6%

Don Mackay: W 91 D 64 L 77. Win ratio 39.2%

Ray Harford: W 24 D 13 L 27. Win ratio 37.5%

Bobby Saxton: W 90 D 71 L 85. Win ratio 36.6%

Tony Parkes: W 21 D 19 L 19. Win ratio 35.59%

Sam Allardyce: W 32 D 24 L 34. Win ratio 35.56%

Roy Hodgson: W 22 D 18 L 22. Win ratio 35.5%

Paul Ince: W 6 D 4 L 11. Win ratio 28.6%

Brian Kidd: W 12 D 18 L 14. Win ratio 27.3%

Looking at his stats I can see why the new owners felt that he wasn't the man to lead the club to bigger and better things. Couple this win ratio with his shocking tactics surely people can't complain too much about his departure. Personally I thought they may have waited until the end of the season before giving him the boot, but I haven't been this excited about attending a Rover's game for a long long time.

Also interesting to note that Big Jack also gave Don Mackay who had a pretty decent record the boot as he also felt that he wasn't the right man to lead the club onto greater things. Looking at Dalglish's record Uncle Jack was proved right. Let's hope Venky's can follow suit.

Poor record isn't it.. I don't know why so many are defending him. I agree the suddenness of his departure was not well thought out but he would have been sacked evetually. Hodgeson was sacked with the same win percentage.

[tony gale's mic]

Poor record isn't it.. I don't know why so many are defending him. I agree the suddenness of his departure was not well thought out but he would have been sacked evetually. Hodgeson was sacked with the same win percentage.

I don't know why so many of our fans appear to be hard of thinking.

Hodgson had huge amounts of Jack Walker's cash to spend and the club had won the league 3 seasons earlier.

When he was sacked we were at the bottom of the league. He didn't get sacked on the basis of his win percentage.

Clearly the two situations are completely different.

Sam got us to 10th in the league in his only full season with us. How much higher do you think he couldve taken us with a minimal transfer budget?

[chocky]

I don't know why so many of our fans appear to be hard of thinking.

Hodgson had huge amounts of Jack Walker's cash to spend and the club had won the league 3 seasons earlier.

When he was sacked we were at the bottom of the league. He didn't get sacked on the basis of his win percentage.

Clearly the two situations are completely different.

Sam got us to 10th in the league in his only full season with us. How much higher do you think he couldve taken us with a minimal transfer budget?

As soon as the new owners took over they said we want to see attractive football played at Ewood Park. As soon as they said that Allardyce's days were numbered. With our squad of players we should be winning more. If you think surviving in the premiershio is all there is then that's not enough. I believe they will have money for the second half of the season and they don't trust Allardyce with it. If we wern't thumped 7-1 at Manchester United and lost with that 88th minute goal at Bolton he might have been given a reprieve.

[chocky]

I don't know why so many of our fans appear to be hard of thinking.

Hodgson had huge amounts of Jack Walker's cash to spend and the club had won the league 3 seasons earlier.

When he was sacked we were at the bottom of the league. He didn't get sacked on the basis of his win percentage.

Clearly the two situations are completely different.

Sam got us to 10th in the league in his only full season with us. How much higher do you think he couldve taken us with a minimal transfer budget?

As soon as the new owners took over they said we want to see attractive football played at Ewood Park. As soon as they said that Allardyce's days were numbered. With our squad of players we should be winning more. If you think surviving in the premiershio is all there is then that's not enough. I believe they will have money for the second half of the season and they don't trust Allardyce with it. If we wern't thumped 7-1 at Manchester United and lost with that 88th minute goal at Bolton he might have been given a reprieve.

[chocky]

I don't know why so many of our fans appear to be hard of thinking.

Hodgson had huge amounts of Jack Walker's cash to spend and the club had won the league 3 seasons earlier.

When he was sacked we were at the bottom of the league. He didn't get sacked on the basis of his win percentage.

Clearly the two situations are completely different.

Sam got us to 10th in the league in his only full season with us. How much higher do you think he couldve taken us with a minimal transfer budget?

As soon as the new owners took over they said we want to see attractive football played at Ewood Park. As soon as they said that Allardyce's days were numbered. With our squad of players we should be winning more. If you think surviving in the premiershio is all there is then that's not enough. I believe they will have money for the second half of the season and they don't trust Allardyce with it. If we wern't thumped 7-1 at Manchester United and lost with that 88th minute goal at Bolton he might have been given a reprieve.

[chocky]

**

[tony gale's mic]

As soon as the new owners took over they said we want to see attractive football played at Ewood Park. As soon as they said that Allardyce's days were numbered. With our squad of players we should be winning more. If you think surviving in the premiershio is all there is then that's not enough. I believe they will have money for the second half of the season and they don't trust Allardyce with it. If we wern't thumped 7-1 at Manchester United and lost with that 88th minute goal at Bolton he might have been given a reprieve.

What are you on about?

We finished 10th in the league last season and with the Premier League being tight this season we were performing to similar levels. That's not just surviving, thats the same position that Hughes achieved in his final season with us.

Of the sides above us last season, who should we have been finishing above?

Birmingham spent 20 million plus on players the summer before last. This season they're flirting with relegation.

Should we have finished above Everton, with players like Cahill, Fellaini and Arteta having more creativity in their little fingers than we have in our whole squad?

Or should Sam have been expected to finish above Liverpool, Villa, Chelsea, Spurs, United or City?

It makes me a little ashamed to be a Rovers fan when I see some of the ill informed nonsense written by our fans on here.

[mhead]

I think 'thumped' by MUFC within 2 weeks of the new owners taking over was the equivalent of a suicide note. Personally.

[tony gale's mic]

I think 'thumped' by MUFC within 2 weeks of the new owners taking over was the equivalent of a suicide note. Personally.

If losing by 6 goals in one match should be a trigger for a change of manager then most clubs our size in the league would be changing managers a lot more readily.

Maybe Real should have sacked Mourinho for losing 5-0 against Barca, since that was arguably a much worse result?

Or should the owners have been sensible, put it down to a bad day at the office which can happen sometimes, and have looked at the bigger picture including his overall record?

[slough_rover]

If losing by 6 goals in one match should be a trigger for a change of manager then most clubs our size in the league would be changing managers a lot more readily.

Maybe Real should have sacked Mourinho for losing 5-0 against Barca, since that was arguably a much worse result?

Or should the owners have been sensible, put it down to a bad day at the office which can happen sometimes, and have looked at the bigger picture including his overall record?

People keep on stupidly comparing our loss to Reals against Barca. Im sure if we were 2 points off the top and still in the champions league In sure Sam would still be here.

[Roost]

Number of times I've been bored to death under Sam. Every game.

Number of games I've missed under Sam. Most in years.

Same here

[tony gale's mic]

People keep on stupidly comparing our loss to Reals against Barca. Im sure if we were 2 points off the top and still in the champions league In sure Sam would still be here.

That's a very stupid post.

Real are one of the most successful clubs in the history of club football. To be 2 points off the top and be in the Champions League is pretty much the minimum expected of them.

Rovers are one of the most underfunded clubs in a league which is half full of huge spenders. To be just above the relegation zone is the minimum expected of us.

If we were 2 points off the top and in the Champions League Sam wouldn't be here - he would actually be managing Inter Milan or someone similar.

[chocky]

People keep on stupidly comparing our loss to Reals against Barca. Im sure if we were 2 points off the top and still in the champions league In sure Sam would still be here.

Now that is a fact..Instead of being in the top half and pushing for Europe we are in the bottom half looking over ourt shoulder. That is what those two results meant. I am not saying we could have drawn or won at old Trafford but to lose 7-1 was a disgrace. And, as for that Bolton loss.

[tony gale's mic]

Now that is a fact..Instead of being in the top half and pushing for Europe we are in the bottom half looking over ourt shoulder. That is what those two results meant. I am not saying we could have drawn or won at old Trafford but to lose 7-1 was a disgrace. And, as for that Bolton loss.

Christ.

We're one point from the top half.

A maximum of 7 teams, if the cups are won by teams are already in Europe, can get into Europe.

Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, City and Everton. That's 7 teams.

How many of those teams have spent what we have these last two seasons? You can add Stoke, Birmingham, Sunderland and Bolton to that question too.

[chocky]

Christ.

We're one point from the top half.

A maximum of 7 teams, if the cups are won by teams are already in Europe, can get into Europe.

Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, City and Everton. That's 7 teams.

How many of those teams have spent what we have these last two seasons? You can add Stoke, Birmingham, Sunderland and Bolton to that question too.

A lot of what was wrong was Sam's style. I have sat at so many matches unbder his tenure and thought "Why the f**k do I bother travelling hundreds of miles costing hundreds of pounds to watch this @#/?". of course it's because I love the Rovers but I never felt this way under any othert mangager. not souness or Hodgeson or any one else since I've been going to live matches. Not even when we were in the 1st division when I bought my first season ticket have I thought we are playing such utter @#/?.

[tony gale's mic]

A lot of what was wrong was Sam's style. I have sat at so many matches unbder his tenure and thought "Why the f**k do I bother travelling hundreds of miles costing hundreds of pounds to watch this @#/?". of course it's because I love the Rovers but I never felt this way under any othert mangager. not souness or Hodgeson or any one else since I've been going to live matches. Not even when we were in the 1st division when I bought my first season ticket have I thought we are playing such utter @#/?.

So it was nothing to do with his results at all, which as we've demonstrated in this thread have been pretty good?

Yes his football was unattractive, and TBF this, unlike the results, is much more of a subjective opinion.

But we had an excellent home record and most managers with pretty much nothing to spend one summer and a negative transfer budget the previous summer would have had us, at best, flirting with relegation.

If you'd prefer to see the odd victory playing attractive football but have us losing a lot more games and very possibly seeing us relegated, as opposed to having more "ugly" wins then that's at least a viewpoint I can see as a logical one. Even though it's not one I share.

But this business about Sam's results not being good is tripe.

[chocky]

So it was nothing to do with his results at all, which as we've demonstrated in this thread have been pretty good?

Yes his football was unattractive, and TBF this, unlike the results, is much more of a subjective opinion.

But we had an excellent home record and most managers with pretty much nothing to spend one summer and a negative transfer budget the previous summer would have had us, at best, flirting with relegation.

If you'd prefer to see the odd victory playing attractive football but have us losing a lot more games and very possibly seeing us relegated, as opposed to having more "ugly" wins then that's at least a viewpoint I can see as a logical one. Even though it's not one I share.

But this business about Sam's results not being good is tripe.

His results were not that good but it may have had a lot to do with the transfer budget. But I for one would not have trusted him with a healthy budget. He does well with a poor budget and playing lump it up football. I for one won't miss that. I think the new owners have been taking advice from Ketaro whom they employed to give them the football advice they need.I have no idea as does anyone else how much money they really will make available in January. The press will write what they want and their hypocrisy is as bad as some of the fan's. They have slagged our football off continuously but when Sam gets sacked they make him out to be the best manager in the league. Go figure.

[tony gale's mic]

Well, the hypocrisy of the press is something I agree with, though TBF I'd also seen quite a few columnists over Sam's tenure saying he didn't get the credit he deserved, including one from Phil McNulty on the BBC website after the Wolves game.

But Sam bought the likes of Anelka and Okocha at Bolton, whereas his Newcastle transfer record wasn't bad at all. Joey Barton might be an awful human being but he's been a very good player for them over the years. Habib Beye was a massive fan favourite and Jose Enrique was a good signing too. Cacapa was signed on a free and Rozenhal was sold for the same fee for which he was signed. The only outright bad signing IMO was Alan Smith, but he's still a regular for them now, albeit a pretty rubbish regular.

So yes, I wouldve trusted Sam with money in January.

[chocky]

Well, TGM I guess we are not going to agree. I suppose it depends on your perspective whether you likes Sam's management style or not but we all knew that any new owner meant change.

[Steve Moss]

So how did Sam compare to the men who previously led the Blue and White Army. Below are some stats I have pinched from the official website's messageboard:

Kenny Dalglish : W 102 L 47 D 46. Win ratio 52.3%

Howard Kendall: W 41 D 27 L 21. Win ratio 46.1%

Mark Hughes: W 82 D 47 L 59. Win ratio 43.6%

Graeme Souness: W 86 D 61 L 65. Win ratio 40.6%

Don Mackay: W 91 D 64 L 77. Win ratio 39.2%

Ray Harford: W 24 D 13 L 27. Win ratio 37.5%

Bobby Saxton: W 90 D 71 L 85. Win ratio 36.6%

Tony Parkes: W 21 D 19 L 19. Win ratio 35.59%

Sam Allardyce: W 32 D 24 L 34. Win ratio 35.56%

Roy Hodgson: W 22 D 18 L 22. Win ratio 35.5%

Paul Ince: W 6 D 4 L 11. Win ratio 28.6%

Brian Kidd: W 12 D 18 L 14. Win ratio 27.3%

Are the stats available for a points per game ratio for each of the above?

On the subject of fair comparisons, what would be the pounds per point ratio, adjusted for 2010 dollars, for each of the above.

I think if those two adjustments were made, Sam would look far better on the chart. And I think it would be a fairer comparison of our respective managers' expertise.

On the other hand, I'm just an armchair fan so I'm probably way off base.

[LeftWinger]

Kenny Dalglish : W 102 L 47 D 46. Win ratio 52.3%

Howard Kendall: W 41 D 27 L 21. Win ratio 46.1%

Mark Hughes: W 82 D 47 L 59. Win ratio 43.6%

Graeme Souness: W 86 D 61 L 65. Win ratio 40.6%

Don Mackay: W 91 D 64 L 77. Win ratio 39.2%

Ray Harford: W 24 D 13 L 27. Win ratio 37.5%

Bobby Saxton: W 90 D 71 L 85. Win ratio 36.6%

Tony Parkes: W 21 D 19 L 19. Win ratio 35.59%

Sam Allardyce: W 32 D 24 L 34. Win ratio 35.56%

Roy Hodgson: W 22 D 18 L 22. Win ratio 35.5%

Paul Ince: W 6 D 4 L 11. Win ratio 28.6%

Brian Kidd: W 12 D 18 L 14. Win ratio 27.3%

Steve Kean: W 0 D 1 L 0. Win ratio 0%

Get him sacked Venky's - that's an awful win ratio. I think Ms. Desai will agree he's had more than long enough now.

[G Somerset Rover]

Kean will be feeling edgy after today. A couple more performances like this and we'll be getting a new yes man in. I love venkys!