[Archived] Benefit tv

[ABBEY]

Anyone see the scrotes on telly the other night .. Was fuming watching it .

[Mike E]

I can't remember the name but they had slightly Brummie accents and there was a street "Mum" who looked after everyone's money. None of it bothered me up until that couple who said they were laughing about the amount of benefits they were swindling £1.5K p/m and then when they got caught they laughed and said they weren't laughing when they got caught.

As a tax payer you can think "all my tax money for the year has funded those cheaters for x months". It's pretty easy to get wound up about it but I think it's being really clamped down on now. They also say that benefit cheats, although undeservedly receiving free and unwarranted money, accounts for an absolute smidgen of all tax money.

Indeed but that tiny bit is still tens of millions. This is tax money that could've come to me in the form of Disability Living Allowance, but I've always been told by the government that, despite being severely deaf, I'm not disabled.

Yet I'm allowed to tick that little box to guarantee an interview or get reduced train fares.

I don't need reduced fares as I get by just fine, but I could've damned well done with some additional funding as a child to help pay for an assortment of radio aids through school.

It infuriates me to see idle scum pick up tax paid by me and my parents and any number of hard-working families. That money should be going to help those that need it. A few million a year towards helping the disabled would do wonders for them.

But we live in an age where idle, work-shy breeding machines get free money, while children with a missing limb are told they 'aren't disabled enough'.

Grumble grumble!

[rock steady]

I haven't seen the show, but the way people on benefits are portrayed on tv is a complete joke and bears little resemblance to the real world. They're usually families with loads of kids, who don't want to work and rake in fortunes in benefits. "Idle scum" or "work-shy breedinig machines" as an above poster puts it.

Yes there may be people like this, but their numbers are tiny. If you're talking about JSA then the vast majority of people receiving that are struggling to get by and would rather work. But maybe that doesn't sell newspapers or make TV shows that people can get angry about.

If anyone is at all interested in facts about welfare, I suggest giving this a read:

http://classonline.org.uk/pubs/item/exposing-the-myths-of-welfare

[Mike E]

I haven't seen the show, but the way people on benefits are portrayed on tv is a complete joke and bears little resemblance to the real world. They're usually families with loads of kids, who don't want to work and rake in fortunes in benefits. "Idle scum" or "work-shy breedinig machines" as an above poster puts it.

Yes there may be people like this, but their numbers are tiny. If you're talking about JSA then the vast majority of people receiving that are struggling to get by and would rather work. But maybe that doesn't sell newspapers or make TV shows that people can get angry about.

If anyone is at all interested in facts about welfare, I suggest giving this a read:

http://classonline.org.uk/pubs/item/exposing-the-myths-of-welfare

Just so you know, I'm specifically referring to those that abuse the system and not those who come upon hard times.

And that PDF says that about £1bn is lost through fraudulent benefit claims. That's not as much as is lost in other areas but it's still a massive amount of money that must bd redirected to those who need it.

I certainly don't believe the amounts are wrong etc, but every single person who abuses a system designed to help tjose who need a lift-up IS scum. As are those (whether few or many) who have more kids just to claim more.

Just because it's the minority, it doesn't mean it isn't worth getting angry about.

[jim mk2]

Pathetic programme pandering to the uneducated over a minor problem that is overhyped by the conservative right to justify swingeing attacks on the poor.

About £1bn a year is lost through benefit fraud which while unacceptable is pennies compared to the £39bn that is lost to the Treasury every year through tax evasion.

Benefits for the rich through tax avoidance and evasion is the real national scandal.

[Amo]

Any coincidence this is shown after the Tories announce they're about to slash welfare again?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Pathetic programme pandering to the uneducated over a minor problem that is overhyped by the conservative right to justify swingeing attacks on the poor.

About £1bn a year is lost through benefit fraud which while unacceptable is pennies compared to the £39bn that is lost to the Treasury every year through tax evasion.

Benefits for the rich through tax avoidance and evasion is the real national scandal.

If the issue is "unacceptable" then why is the program pathetic, pandering to the uneducated and trying to justify attacks on the poor?

I'm poor. I have a full time job and am significantly poorer than almost everyone on benefits cause I get nothing for free. In my 30s and can't afford to buy a house, buy a decent car, go Rovers apart from my season ticket and go on nights out most of the time. Poor people in society aren't the people on benefits, its time to knock that right on the head. The destitute and struggling in this society are those on and around the minimum wage, who are royally getting the shaft from all sides.

Fine if you're more annoyed about the rich avoiding tax, but you should still be at least some amount of annoyed at the scum that program was about. Makes me laugh hearing the left constantly admitting this isn't ok and then going ballistic when anyone else says the same but with more enthusiasm.

[jim mk2]

The programme (note the spelling) was pathetic because it is jumping on a right wing bandwagon over a largely non-existent problem. Yes, there are some benefits cheats but the number and scale has been hugely exaggerated. £1bn a year going missing isn't right but in the big picture is a minor problem compared to abuses of the system by the wealthy. Where are the TV programmes attacking the rich?

If you're poor it's odd that you continue to attack the left. Supporting the right certainly won't see increases to your standard of living or perhaps Ed Miliband's cost of living debate has gone over your head. If you think you're better off with the Tories you have to ask yourself whether you can afford the Cost of Cameron.

[Mike E]

The programme (note the spelling) was pathetic because it is jumping on a right wing bandwagon over a largely non-existent problem. Yes, there are some benefits cheats but the number and scale has been hugely exaggerated. £1bn a year going missing isn't right but in the big picture is a minor problem compared to abuses of the system by the wealthy. Where are the TV programmes attacking the rich?

If you're poor it's odd that you continue to attack the left. Supporting the right certainly won't see increases to your standard of living or perhaps Ed Miliband's cost of living debate has gone over your head. If you think you're better off with the Tories you have to ask yourself whether you can afford the Cost of Cameron.

I consider myself mostly left but wouldn't ever support the current Labour set-up. They're as right as the tories, don't let them fool you.

In any case, how anyone could want a complete gobshite like Miliband running the country is beyond me. It's bad enough that we have gutless David Cameron as PM and a journalist as our Chancellor of the Exchequer!

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Just so you know, I'm specifically referring to those that abuse the system and not those who come upon hard times.

And that PDF says that about £1bn is lost through fraudulent benefit claims. That's not as much as is lost in other areas but it's still a massive amount of money that must bd redirected to those who need it.

I certainly don't believe the amounts are wrong etc, but every single person who abuses a system designed to help tjose who need a lift-up IS scum. As are those (whether few or many) who have more kids just to claim more.

Just because it's the minority, it doesn't mean it isn't worth getting angry about.

If we eliminated fraud but everyone claimed the amount they were entitled to then the national coffers would be worse off by billions. Not much point bemoaning an imperfect system when it would lead to you having to pay more tax if it did work the way it was intended.

[Mike E]

If we eliminated fraud but everyone claimed the amount they were entitled to then the national coffers would be worse off by billions. Not much point bemoaning an imperfect system when it would lead to you having to pay more tax if it did work the way it was intended.

So because it doesn't benefit me directly, we should be happy with a system that is unfair?

Just adjust what people are entitled to. Eg: I don't believe anyone should be entitled to a state pension greater than another. State pension should be the same for everyone regardless of job. The only difference should be any savings made or private investment.

[Tom]

I was quite angry watching it mainly because the crew were filming a guy committing crimes but apparently did nothing about it

Probably the same company that filmed What happens in Kavos that would film young lads and girls totally wasted and instead of making sure they are ok would wait for them to do something daft, apparently they got a bonus if they could find someone who was going to take the morning after pill and would follow them round

Anyway Smoggy seemed a good bloke nice to see he's had job offers since

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If you're poor it's odd that you continue to attack the left. Supporting the right certainly won't see increases to your standard of living or perhaps Ed Miliband's cost of living debate has gone over your head. If you think you're better off with the Tories you have to ask yourself whether you can afford the Cost of Cameron.

I only attack the left because of the utterly blinkered view of many leftists. Its ironic that the left tends to describe anything right of centre as being right-wing, when the most fanatical views in mainstream politics tend to come from the left. I know plenty of people right of centre who are happy to unreservedly criticise the rich, any military action based on self-interest, certain moronic immigration policies (e.g. the Gurkha issue). Most people I know on the left take a political approach akin to a zealot-like unyielding doctrine. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the entire sphere of traditional leftist beliefs is permitted to be criticised. Not even a bunch of lazy, thieving, scumbag criminals earning at least double the minimum wage for doing sod all.

[Mike E]

I only attack the left because of the utterly blinkered view of many leftists. Its ironic that the left tends to describe anything right of centre as being right-wing, when the most fanatical views in mainstream politics tend to come from the left. I know plenty of people right of centre who are happy to unreservedly criticise the rich, any military action based on self-interest, certain moronic immigration policies (e.g. the Gurkha issue). Most people I know on the left take a political approach akin to a zealot-like unyielding doctrine. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the entire sphere of traditional leftist beliefs is permitted to be criticised. Not even a bunch of lazy, thieving, scumbag criminals earning at least double the minimum wage for doing sod all.

Nicely put. My best mate's a lefty but I simply cannot talk politics with him.

I like how those who go WAY left criticise private education, but fail to grasp that those who pay for private education also continue to pay for a comprehensive education that they don't use.

[thenodrog]

Nicely put. My best mate's a lefty but I simply cannot talk politics with him.

I like how those who go WAY left criticise private education, but fail to grasp that those who pay for private education also continue to pay for a comprehensive education that they don't use.

Ditto Private Health Mike. Hardly fair is it?

If we eliminated fraud but everyone claimed the amount they were entitled to then the national coffers would be worse off by billions. Not much point bemoaning an imperfect system when it would lead to you having to pay more tax if it did work the way it was intended.

So as long as you have plenty of food in your pantry you are happy to turn a blind eye to the rats that are getting in through the wall and gorging themselves and spreading infection jeru? How about the Doctor informs you that you are otherwise very healthy but unfortunately have a tapeworm? Would you leave it alone or take a dose of panacur?

[jim mk2]

I only attack the left because of the utterly blinkered view of many leftists. Its ironic that the left tends to describe anything right of centre as being right-wing, when the most fanatical views in mainstream politics tend to come from the left. I know plenty of people right of centre who are happy to unreservedly criticise the rich, any military action based on self-interest, certain moronic immigration policies (e.g. the Gurkha issue). Most people I know on the left take a political approach akin to a zealot-like unyielding doctrine. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the entire sphere of traditional leftist beliefs is permitted to be criticised. Not even a bunch of lazy, thieving, scumbag criminals earning at least double the minimum wage for doing sod all.

I think you're getting confused. Anything right of centre is right wing. And if you look in the House of Commons the fantatists are not on the left (apart from dear Dennis Skinner) but on the extreme right with a considerable number of Cameron's backbench hardened ideologues when it comes to immigration, Europe and welfare. In case you hadn't noticed but mainstream politics across Europe has shifted to the right since the worldwide economic crisis of 2008.

As for your last sentence it should be treated with the contempt it deserves. Straight lift from the Daily Mail ?

Nicely put. My best mate's a lefty but I simply cannot talk politics with him.

I like how those who go WAY left criticise private education, but fail to grasp that those who pay for private education also continue to pay for a comprehensive education that they don't use.

Quite right too. Universal tax equals universal services and benefits. If you choose not to use them that is up to you.

[Paul]

Ditto Private Health Mike. Hardly fair is it? ?

Well that's true if those using private health agree to opt out of using:

A&E services Ambulance services emergency or otherwise

GP surgeries

NHS prescriptions

Maternity care post and ante

All other NHS services

The list is endless

All private health care gives you is quicker access to certain services such as operations. If people using PHC want to opt out it would be fine so long as they are happy to bleed to death on a roadside or pay the bill of being saved.

"Opted out of NHS sir? Can I just get your credit card details while my colleague fires up the defibrillator"

"Sorry sir that one's be declined. Do you have another?"

I'm not joking I have friends who work in American hospitals who send emergency cases to other hospitals prepared to accept them!!!!

Simple

[Sandiway Blue]

Pathetic programme pandering to the uneducated over a minor problem that is overhyped by the conservative right to justify swingeing attacks on the poor.

About £1bn a year is lost through benefit fraud which while unacceptable is pennies compared to the £39bn that is lost to the Treasury every year through tax evasion.

Benefits for the rich through tax avoidance and evasion is the real national scandal.

And which government brought that little loophole in? (Clue: not the present one )

The trouble with this is everybody looks at the people claiming the 'Benefits' when in fact i don't blame them one bit.Surely the fault must lie at the hands of the previous government who made claiming benefits worth more than working.It doesn't pay to work considering the crazy amount of different benefits that can be claimed.

I could quite easily have gone on the social and claimed for when i had reactive arthritis some years ago following salmonella food poisoning.I couldn't walk without limping for around 6 years and it took a further 10 years before i got more good days than bad days.However i have a lot more pride than most of these people claiming social and couldn't bring myself to do it despite knowing i would be far better off financially.

Therein lies the problem,some people don't have the work ethic that they should have.The majority of these people will no doubt have been born to families who are long term benefit claimants and will no doubt go on to breed and have more kids that will claim benefits and so on.As harsh as these benefits cuts may seem to some people, this cycle of 'Breed and Claim' needs to stop.

In my view the sooner the better..

[rock steady]

And the myths continue...

[M-K]

What could the residents of Benefits Street actually do? They're Brummies, therefore disadvantaged by birth and education.

[Paul]

Problem with all of this ranting about benefits cuts and scroungers is it ignores where the REAL cuts are being made.

This government is hitting the least able and most vulnerable people in our society week after week.

Sadly the vast majority of the population, as typified by many posts in here, are unaware of the situation and probably couldn't be bothered to discover the appalling truth behind benefits cuts.

Anyone who does understand the true reality of benefits cuts would find a whole new range of things to rant about.

[Amo]

I'm honestly past caring about people who cheat the benefit system. It's spit in the ocean compared to the money being spent on bailing out the banks and fighting needless wars. When it comes to fraudsters, our government has been doing it at a larger scale for centuries through political manipulation. They are the real villains here. These benefit cheats are just economic scapegoats to justify more budget cuts which screw over the poor and prop up the rich. Wake up, people.

[jim mk2]

A

The trouble with this is everybody looks at the people claiming the 'Benefits' when in fact i don't blame them one bit. Surely the fault must lie at the hands of the previous government who made claiming benefits worth more than working.It doesn't pay to work considering the crazy amount of different benefits that can be claimed.

I could quite easily have gone on the social and claimed for when i had reactive arthritis some years ago following salmonella food poisoning.I couldn't walk without limping for around 6 years and it took a further 10 years before i got more good days than bad days.However i have a lot more pride than most of these people claiming social and couldn't bring myself to do it despite knowing i would be far better off financially.

.

Some myths and facts for you easily available online:

1. First, the myth that millions of Britons are living a life of luxury on benefits, which is nonsense. Benefits do not pay the ordinary claimant enough to afford huge luxuries and never did. Anything else is a lie concocted by politicians and media that you would be a fool to believe.

2 The myth that the taxpayer is being defrauded out of a fortune by benefit cheats who are (again) living a life of luxury at our expense. Just look at the figures. The fact is that only seven people in every thousand commit benefit fraud – at a consequently small cost to the overall budget – and the amount they receive simply would not support the lifestyle politicians are suggesting for them.

3. The bigger myth that people prefer to live on benefits than get a job. The current situation, engineered by this government, means there are very few jobs available – around 500,000 at any one time, with 2.5 million people chasing them. Many are zero-hours jobs and part-time which do not pay more than benefits (“Making Work Pay” – another Tory lie) so anyone taking them will be out of pocket.

Meanwhile, this government has rigged the system so that anyone who does not spend the entire working week pestering local businesses for jobs that they haven't got and won't be offering will lose their benefit for a period of up to three years!

4. Finally, there is the biggest myth of all – that there isn’t enough money. HMRC just released estimates for the tax year 2011-12 suggesting it failed to collect £35 billion in evaded or avoided tax during that year.

That’s seven times more than the national bill for job seekers' allowance, and more than 29 times the estimated cost of all benefit fraud.

And it gets better. This is only an estimate and the true cost of the so-called “tax gap” is believed to be £120 billion – equal to each year’s national deficit, 24 times the cost of job seekers allowance or 100 times the cost of benefit fraud.

Why isn’t this government going after these cheats and criminals and why aren't you up in arms about this instead of directing your anger at so-called "benefits cheats"?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The trouble with this is everybody looks at the people claiming the 'Benefits' when in fact i don't blame them one bit.Surely the fault must lie at the hands of the previous government who made claiming benefits worth more than working.It doesn't pay to work considering the crazy amount of different benefits that can be claimed.

I could quite easily have gone on the social and claimed for when i had reactive arthritis some years ago following salmonella food poisoning.I couldn't walk without limping for around 6 years and it took a further 10 years before i got more good days than bad days.However i have a lot more pride than most of these people claiming social and couldn't bring myself to do it despite knowing i would be far better off financially.

Very similar to my situation. I've had some fairly serious health problems throughout my 20s which have hampered my ability to get and maintain a decent job. I'm stuck on hovering barely above the minimum wage and would almost certainly be better off on benefits, I could just inflate my health problems and start claiming for everything. That's what most of the benefits claimants do. I've no doubt some of them do have health/disability issues, but even for the majority of those I very much doubt its crippling to the point of prohibiting any type of work.

Like you the only reason I bother is self-pride. And its that pride that demands a negative reaction to the dole dossers. To the people in this thread who think we should all lay off them, the day I do that is the day I join them, I can guarantee you that. And the rest of the millions around the country working around the minimum wage should join them as well if the issue simply isn't one worth being angry about. Then when about 5-10 million are doing the same as the current 1-2 million or whatever, we'll see how much of an insignificant problem, propaganda issue and drop in the ocean the whole thing is.

Very much like the immigration issue, its a lot easier not to care about benefits claimants if it has very little effect on you. Jim will doubtless be on the way to or already getting the kind of pension that will seem like a dragon's horde of gold compared to the horrific/non-existent pensions my generation can look forward to. And I suspect round where Toppers lives the vast majority don't even know what the minimum wage is, let alone come close to getting paid it. When you earn less than about 70% of long-term benefits claimants it becomes very f'ing annoying, take my word for it.

[thenodrog]

Quite right too. Universal tax equals universal services and benefits. If you choose not to use them that is up to you.

Quite right. Now what we need is a universal tax system in this country.

Well that's true if those using private health agree to opt out of using:

A&E services Ambulance services emergency or otherwise

GP surgeries

NHS prescriptions

Maternity care post and ante

All other NHS services

The list is endless

All private health care gives you is quicker access to certain services such as operations. If people using PHC want to opt out it would be fine so long as they are happy to bleed to death on a roadside or pay the bill of being saved.

"Opted out of NHS sir? Can I just get your credit card details while my colleague fires up the defibrillator"

"Sorry sir that one's be declined. Do you have another?"

I'm not joking I have friends who work in American hospitals who send emergency cases to other hospitals prepared to accept them!!!!

Simple

Even simpler if one stuffs all those saved NHS contributions into boosting up ones private package. Post op convalescing in the Ritz would be really nice.