Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[lraC]

19 minutes ago, philipl said:

If you are drifting into cash issues, things like the web site and phone lines going down are the controllable issues you DON'T allow to happen.

Exactly. The last thing they want to happen, when every penny counts is fans to not be able to buy a ticket for was it 48 hours?

As someone with IT knowledge pointed out at the time, the length of time it was down for, did not suggest a service issue, more likely a problem with the payment perhaps?

[47er]

14 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

I know this was a rhetorical question but I’ll answer it anyway 😁

I’d say:

best case = roughly where Brighton are

worst case = roughly where Leicester are.

  

Or best case-- Fulham.

[Gav]

Who remembers the good old days back in 2011/12 when the only thing we had to worry about was Venkys not paying back the £10m overdraft to Barclays, KPMG finding holes in the accounts and the players under threat of not being paid.

Oh wait a minute........

[lraC]

10 minutes ago, Gav said:

Who remembers the good old days back in 2011/12 when the only thing we had to worry about was Venkys not paying back the £10m overdraft to Barclays, KPMG finding holes in the accounts and the players under threat of not being paid.

Oh wait a minute........

It's amazing what this has evolved into.

Who in their right minds, would have let all of this happen.

This is exactly why I find it very hard to deviate from, them (or the initial people involved) having something serious to hide.

[wilsdenrover]

31 minutes ago, 47er said:

Or best case-- Fulham.

Maybe Brighton was a tad optimistic - sadly we’ll never know…

[speedies gonna get ya.]

All this is very worrying, the silence and then spin from Waggott doesn't help ease our concerns. An example of this is the team bus issue. He made out we own it when infact it is just leased. This leaves him the the credibility of a time share or used car salesman. When he eventually speaks on this matter no one will be satisfied by his explanation.

[wilsdenrover]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Boltons demise began in similar fashion with training ground / car park sales etc when like you say money had to be paid back.

So we now have a no doubt huge bank overdraft that Vs can't pay down in the usual fashion, training ground rent plus new borrowings and i think there might already have been a high interest loan being paid ?

At some point you feel the proverbial will hit the fan the last time we were in a similar position there was Cairney, Rudy, Hanley, Duffy and Marshall to sell.

What this time ?   We've already done the training ground thing because they didn't manage to sell the asset they paid 7 million for to develop and sell !

Which has now been assigned to Crossbaron…

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Gav]

18 minutes ago, lraC said:

It's amazing what this has evolved into.

Who in their right minds, would have let all of this happen.

This is exactly why I find it very hard to deviate from, them (or the initial people involved) having something serious to hide.

I spent so much of my time being bitter, not going to games and generally being miserable because of these idiots. I took the decision a to try and forget them, support the club, shirt and players, but its hard when you know you've got them in the background, knowing I wouldn't trust any of them to find their own arse with both hands.

I hope they go bust to be honest, I hope they suffer as much as the businesses they closed down by allowing that relegation to happen under king rat. This club will never die, clubs like ours always survive and this one will rise again, once they scurry back under the rock from where they came, but until that happens, its crisis after crisis after crisis. 

 

[tomphil]

18 minutes ago, speedies gonna get ya. said:

All this is very worrying, the silence and then spin from Waggott doesn't help ease our concerns. An example of this is the team bus issue. He made out we own it when infact it is just leased. This leaves him the the credibility of a time share or used car salesman. When he eventually speaks on this matter no one will be satisfied by his explanation.

His credibility was gone, done, null and void the min he stood there trying to spin what was attempted to be done on the quiet with the training ground.

 

[lraC]

16 minutes ago, Gav said:

I spent so much of my time being bitter, not going to games and generally being miserable because of these idiots. I took the decision a to try and forget them, support the club, shirt and players, but its hard when you know you've got them in the background, knowing I wouldn't trust any of them to find their own arse with both hands.

I hope they go bust to be honest, I hope they suffer as much as the businesses they closed down by allowing that relegation to happen under king rat. This club will never die, clubs like ours always survive and this one will rise again, once they scurry back under the rock from where they came, but until that happens, its crisis after crisis after crisis. 

 

I am exactly the same way Gav.

All we can do as loyal fans, is enjoy the bits we can (Success on the field mainly) and wait for the inevitable failure that the owners will suffer and pick up the pieces from there.

Edited October 24, 2023 by lraC
Typo

[wilsdenrover]

2 hours ago, lraC said:

My meeting in on Wednesday 22/11/2023.

Take a torch, the lights might not be on by then.

[Gav]

2 minutes ago, lraC said:

I am exactly the same way Gav.

All we can do as loyal fans, is enjoy the bits we can (Success on the field mainly) and wait for the inevitable failure that the owners will suffer and pick up the pieces from there.

You know what IraC? 

The Sheff Utd cup game last season reminded me of what the club/fanbase are capable of, we could have sold 10,000 tickets for that match, the players were superb on the day against clearly better opposition, a buzz in the town, the Sheffield streets packed with Rovers fans, it really gave me hope for the future.

All this against a backdrop of incompetence and absent owners, imagine what it could be like with a steady hand/hands running things.

Keep the faith pal.

[lraC]

Just now, Gav said:

You know what IraC? 

The Sheff Utd cup game last season reminded me of what the club/fanbase are capable of, we could have sold 10,000 tickets for that match, the players were superb on the day against clearly better opposition, a buzz in the town, the Sheffield streets packed with Rovers fans, it really gave me hope for the future.

All this against a backdrop of incompetence and absent owners, imagine what it could be like with a steady hand/hands running things.

Keep the faith pal.

Ditto.

 

They will not defeat us, end of.

[Rogerb]

With the rental income assigned to crossbaron the implications are that if the club can't pay the rent they take control of the land. No wonder a venture capitalist is all over this.

We've gone from owning our training centre to on the verge of loosing it entirely.

The march 23 accounts showed venkys had then not paid any money for the training centre to the club 

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'm not too sure of impending armaggedon myself.

Whilst it clearly cannot be in any way a positive development I don't think it is the first time we've had to resort to this sort of thing.

I suppose the key question is whether this is a temporary stopgap whilst issues are resolved or whether it is a desperate step along a new road where the owners can't or more likely won't put any more cash in.

I remember stories previously about short term loans being taken out to meet overheads, but we came through it.

I've long suspected that the owners have effectively separated 'the club' e.g. the day to day operation of Ewood and Brockhall, from other funding e.g. the wage bill and playing squad.

One thing they've always seemed fine doing is paying wages on time and that includes carrying a hefty playing wage bill together with all the club staff. You're talking millions and millions a year. I seem to recall, not sure if it has changed, that people were paid from the Bank of India. There have never been any rumours or suggestions of people not being paid on full or on time.

Yet at the same time I've heard countless stories of no money in the kitty to do anything, even relatively minor tasks down at Ewood and Brockhall, even down to very minor and inexpensive things. The lack of investment in Ewood Park is testament to that. It appears to me that the owners won't or can't put in the cash for things such as maintenance, infrastructure, routine outgoings but have always been fine to carry their wage commitments.

It's an odd situation but I don't think anything new. In the midst of all this you've the likes of Waggott and Cheston having to find the cash from elsewhere to keep the lights on and the show on the road and then stunts like this.

Clearly we need new owners and soon but I'm not convinced this suggests a major issue. I expect a year from now it will be the same old story.

Good post. It seems we've been here a million times before - some funding issues arises and 'this time it's different' and they will have to sell up and/or we're going bust. Yet, they're still here 13 depressing years later. 

It might be different this time if they can longer funnel money into the club to cover wages etc. I suppose the next 12 months will tell us that.

[tomphil]

So the training ground eventually gets seized forcing everything to move to the academy.

That would be rather convenient.

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

Which has now been assigned to Crossbaron…

 

1) Rovers have taken a loan out with Crossbaron (whoever they are) for unknown reasons - possibly cashflow problems relating to the Indian govt issues.

2) In order to repay the loan Rovers now pay the rent on Brockhall to Crossbaron instead of Venky's.

 

Is that basically what's happening here?

Edited October 24, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[Rogerb]

1) venkys London limited have taken out the loan. The rent rovers were paying them now goes to crossbaron.

[wilsdenrover]

13 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

With the rental income assigned to crossbaron the implications are that if the club can't pay the rent they take control of the land. No wonder a venture capitalist is all over this.

We've gone from owning our training centre to on the verge of loosing it entirely.

The march 23 accounts showed venkys had then not paid any money for the training centre to the club 

This bit?:

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

1) venkys London limited have taken out the loan. The rent rovers were paying them now goes to crossbaron.

Venkateshwara London Limited not Venkys London Limited.

Edited October 24, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[wilsdenrover]

8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So the training ground eventually gets seized forcing everything to move to the academy.

That would be rather convenient.

This is everything the loan is secured against - anyone have any idea what the other three are?:

 

[wilsdenrover]

The company also can’t buy future property without Crossbaron having the right to add it to their security.

[tomphil]

3 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

This is everything the loan is secured against - anyone have any idea what the other three are?:

 

Presumably the houses owned by the club ?

[Sweaty Gussets]

9 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

1) venkys London limited have taken out the loan. The rent rovers were paying them now goes to crossbaron.

cheers Roger

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

1) venkys London limited have taken out the loan. The rent rovers were paying them now goes to crossbaron.

Venkateshwara London

Which is different than Venkys London that owns the club.