Rudy Gestede

[aletheia]

20 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Nope. Remarkable example of how fickle some of our fans are. When Rudy has had 5 years to achieve little to nothing, been part of umpteen players to leave due to contract issues and overseen back to back winter transfer windows with deals falling down due to paperwork, I’ll join you on this comment.

Not fickle at all.

Most here still believe that SWAG was slippery, economical with the truth.

Many now believe that RG is worse.

5 years? I see -that's how long we have to give the new aligned plan before we can comment.

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, aletheia said:

Not fickle at all.

Most here still believe that SWAG was slippery, economical with the truth.

Many now believe that RG is worse.

5 years? I see -that's how long we have to give the new aligned plan before we can comment.

No, that’s how long we had used car salesman Steve in charge for pal, and he was shit.

[aletheia]

Not many are arguing with that. But is it ok if we suggest that RG is shit and shouldn't be anywhere near this club?

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, aletheia said:

Not many are arguing with that. But is it ok if we suggest that RG is shit and shouldn't be anywhere near this club?

You can say what you want, but I’d call it fickle. I mean Steve was the guy who 2 managers actively forced their way from.
 

Yes, Rudy was around last summer as a part of the machine, but he truly now is the person who takes utmost responsibility for the football side. If his manager walks away before Christmas, and we’re flopping around mid table or at the bottom, then you will be correct and I will have more rationale for agreeing that he’s on the way to being as much of a twat as Steve Waggott.

There is no law against not being convinced or making your mind up by a certain time.

[BRFC.]

26 minutes ago, JBiz said:

No, that’s how long we had used car salesman Steve in charge for pal, and he was shit.

And that means we should trust Rudy the bully? 

[JBiz]

34 minutes ago, BRFC. said:

And that means we should trust Rudy the bully? 

You do you.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

No, that’s how long we had used car salesman Steve in charge for pal, and he was shit.

Who was actually in charge?

Same question I suspect as who actually interviewed and chose Owen Coyle as manager? Something which has never been answered.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

Who was actually in charge?

Same question I suspect as who actually interviewed and chose Owen Coyle as manager? Something which has never been answered.

I don’t think that was Gestede!

Seriously though I don’t know, but there’s only been one “director” at Ewood ever since the owners darkened our door.

[aletheia]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

You can say what you want, but I’d call it fickle.

It would be fickle if I had said previously that RG was ok or a good appointment. Surprisingly, I never did.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, aletheia said:

It would be fickle if I had said previously that RG was ok or a good appointment. Surprisingly, I never did.

I don’t know what you’ve previously said about Waggott either.

It doesn’t really matter what definition we put on it, fickle, presumptuous, jumping the gun, not based on reality etc - Steve Waggott had a lot of time here and the paints still peeling off the fucking stadium, so it’ll take more than rumours about dress code to make me agree that the sporting director is more of a twat!

Like I said though, all arrows point to more failure, more managers walking because they’re not being backed and more turmoil! Hope I’m wrong. Only one personal responsible for that this season. His head is on the block.

[aletheia]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

I mean Steve was the guy who 2 managers actively forced their way from.

Also, we could argue it was Pasha's decisions and general dysfuntion behind the scenes that caused that. And if you mean JE, I think RG had a large hand in that.

[aletheia]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

Only one personal responsible for that this season

Well if that is Pasha, we have one thing we can agree on.

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, aletheia said:

Also, we could argue it was Pasha's decisions and general dysfuntion behind the scenes that caused that. And if you mean JE, I think RG had a large hand in that.

I’m not sure how JDT left because of RG, I would’ve said it was a budget change “mid project” and Greg Broughtnothing. You might know more than I though.

[DE.]

When it comes to arguing Waggott vs Gestede/Pasha it feels a bit like arguing whether being punched in the face or kicked in the stomach is better. Neither is a great option.

Waggott was, if nothing else, a canny operator who was able to do as instructed by keeping us in the Championship without spending a great deal. He had the ability to charm many who met him and leave them believing things weren't so bad. He was in many ways the perfect person for our owners to have in the CEO position, much like Mowbray was the perfect person for them to have in the managerial seat. With our chronic lack of serious ambition to go beyond trundling along in this division it boggles the mind as to why they'd want to remove either of them. 

[aletheia]

3 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I’m not sure how JDT left because of RG,

Again, I didn't say that..... 

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, aletheia said:

Again, I didn't say that..... 

Sorry, that’s my bad. I’d say you’re probably correct! JE*

[JBiz]

11 minutes ago, DE. said:

When it comes to arguing Waggott vs Gestede/Pasha it feels a bit like arguing whether being punched in the face or kicked in the stomach is better. Neither is a great option.

Waggott was, if nothing else, a canny operator who was able to do as instructed by keeping us in the Championship without spending a great deal. He had the ability to charm many who met him and leave them believing things weren't so bad. He was in many ways the perfect person for our owners to have in the CEO position, much like Mowbray was the perfect person for them to have in the managerial seat. With our chronic lack of serious ambition to go beyond trundling along in this division it boggles the mind as to why they'd want to remove either of them. 

Very good point first sentence.

Waggott and Mowbray did have the most money to spend re wages / transfer fee though and lots of the investments left for free, and spent money on loans every season.
 

If the opposite policy, which is probably enforced due to financial issues, being employed by Rudy (as sporting director or whatever title he has, I would hope Pasha has no input into football matters properly but I bet I’d be disappointed) puts us in turmoil, because the players coming into the club can’t cut it… the rationale grows for calling Rudy a failure.

re Pasha, he was around during the previous 15 years too (including SW/TM)- but being effectively chief exec, he is firmly in the firing line now, and I think that’s a good thing.

He has always been a failure.

[DE.]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

Very good point first sentence.

Waggott and Mowbray did have the most money to spend re wages / transfer fee though and lots of the investments left for free, and spent money on loans every season.
 

If the opposite policy, which is probably enforced due to financial issues, being employed by Rudy (as sporting director or whatever title he has, I would hope Pasha has no input into football matters properly but I bet I’d be disappointed) puts us in turmoil, because the players coming into the club can’t cut it… the rationale grows for calling Rudy a failure.

re Pasha, he was around during the previous 15 years too (including SW/TM)- but being effectively chief exec, he is firmly in the firing line now, and I think that’s a good thing.

He has always been a failure.

Pasha is the one constant, and basically the arm of the owners, the other constant. Everything else is noise. 

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, JBiz said:

You can say what you want, but I’d call it fickle. I mean Steve was the guy who 2 managers actively forced their way from.
 

Yes, Rudy was around last summer as a part of the machine, but he truly now is the person who takes utmost responsibility for the football side. If his manager walks away before Christmas, and we’re flopping around mid table or at the bottom, then you will be correct and I will have more rationale for agreeing that he’s on the way to being as much of a twat as Steve Waggott.

There is no law against not being convinced or making your mind up by a certain time.

There is nothing to suggest that either left specifically because of him.

[JBiz]

33 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There is nothing to suggest that either left specifically because of him.

CEO. 

[K-Hod]

10 hours ago, JBiz said:

I don’t know what you’ve previously said about Waggott either.

It doesn’t really matter what definition we put on it, fickle, presumptuous, jumping the gun, not based on reality etc - Steve Waggott had a lot of time here and the paints still peeling off the fucking stadium, so it’ll take more than rumours about dress code to make me agree that the sporting director is more of a twat!

Like I said though, all arrows point to more failure, more managers walking because they’re not being backed and more turmoil! Hope I’m wrong. Only one personal responsible for that this season. His head is on the block.

Don't let him hear you get his job title wrong! 

RG= 'Head of Football Operations'.

[aletheia]

JBiz
Thinking a little more about our ‘debate.’

We both agree on SWAG.
We both agree Pasha is the main spring of problems (as well as an agency).
We disagree on RG.

You suggest (I think) that RG doing his best and needs time –it’s down to Pasha.
I think I have seen enough (even before he arrived) to have made my criticism I did above.

And it is because, (amongst all the other negative stuff people have posted) I think that the relationship between RG and Pasha is not just one way (ie Pasha as the autocrat and RG/SWAG as the enforcer just carrying out orders). I don’t think you can excuse RG (like SWAG before him) of just being a puppet who does what he is told for 2 reasons:
1 I think he sold the idea/dream of the wage structure to Pasha
2 the element of pettiness and aggression in carrying out the new plan 

The other difference is that you are not prepared to believe (again, I think) some of the stuff suggested by glen and others as you regard it as tittle tattle. On balance, I am.

Edit

Perhaps, putting it another way - I'm not too keen on this idea that it's all down to Pasha (and don't think for a minute this argument is excusing him) and everyone else is just doing as they are told, carrying out orders. That could be seen as an excuse to let off people like SWAG (I know you haven't though!) or RG or VI.

I guess you'll have your moment though if we end up in the top half - the new putsch or alignment will have been seen to work. 😉 

Edited 18 hours ago by aletheia

[JBiz]

@aletheia

I can go for plenty of that. I would say that the main overriding difference from my perspective is the necessity of seeing what transpires on the pitch first.

 

Re “stuff”; Some of it has been questionable to say the least (he made someone cry? Come on ffs), and I just can’t fathom what people get out of putting it into a forum, when if some of it was as quantifiable as claimed, it would be in the news.

If a colleague of mine said or did something similar to another colleague, I’d deal with it professionally, not leak it to someone to post online.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by JBiz

[Tomphil2]

Wasn't Waggot the man who brought Eustace in ?

From various rumours and hints it seems he had a problem with the rest of them behind the scenes and not particularly Waggot who was clearly being sidelined at that point.

There has always seemed to be two factions wrestling behind the scenes at Ewood.

[KentExile]

6 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

There has always seemed to be two factions wrestling behind the scenes at Ewood.

Yep, I am in two minds as to if that is a good or a bad thing

- it stops everyone pulling in the same direction, which kills any hope of us ever progressing

But

- I am terrified what direction that may be.  If it stops us being pulled further downwards, at a faster rate, then 2 warring factions may be a good thing

Edited 3 hours ago by KentExile