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roversfan99

Barnsley v Rovers

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

As Bill Shankly once said “Who gets married during the football season?” 🤣😂

Might be before your time but the first game for two months after the big freeze in the early 1960's was Man Utd at Ewood. Fred Pickering had got married on the morning of the game and both teams formed up on the pitch as a guard of honour to clap him onto the pitch. 

Half way through the second half when we were 1-2 down Rovers had an attack break down. Fred's boot lace had come loose so he crouched down to re tie it just where the penalty spot is a the Blackburn End. United moved the ball up the pitch but then one of their players decided to pass the ball back to the 'keeper. Just as Fred got back to his feet. Obviously the guy hadn't seen him. The ball went straight to Fred who calmly turned with the ball and belted into the back of the net for a 2-2 draw.

Nice wedding present.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

As a general point footballers should avoid becoming fathers during the football season where at all possible. Of course, it isn't quite as simple as that, there are innumerable factors at play. If the last four months have taught us anything it is surely that football is not the be-all and end-all.

" Avoid becoming fathers ", I agree, just don't let them have sex at all like they do with boxers when they're preparing for a bout. That'll improve their levels of aggression 1000%

One of the old time American boxing trainers was very strict on this matter. He was training a very good American middleweight champion called Joey Giardello, who was a noted ladies man. He called around to see the boxer one morning at their training lodge to take him for some roadwork. After banging on the door he thought he could hear noises so he opened the flap of the letter box. He could see Giardello having sex with a maid on the stairs. He was reduced to shouting through the letter box " Don't come Joey, don't come for god's sake ! "

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5 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Which part of  "A bit tongue in cheek" did you not understand Stuart? Do you seriously think I'm even remotely suggesting that the current Mulgrew is better than Lenihan?? It was a satirical take on what his wife's view on it might have been (hence the reference to Bennett as well!). Blimey, lockdown must really be getting to you mate. 

You seem to be missing the whole point of that post, which was that they almost certainly planned for the baby to arrive outside of the football season. According to you, Lenihan's decision not to play cost us the game, which in itself is total nonsense. I think the very fact that you - and others to be fair - seem to want to scapegoat Lenihan for that defeat is shockingly poor, and taken alongside some of Vinjay's posts over the past 24 hours have taken this thread into the bloody twilight zone. 

 

I think you missed something that I thought was pretty overt in my post.

👇🏻

:lol: 

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1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I think you missed something that I thought was pretty overt in my post.

👇🏻

:lol: 

Yeah ok Stuart. 

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15 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Blaming it all on Lenihen - aside from the whole can a Dad be present at a birth issue (imo yes for a variety of reasons but it feels done to death) - detracts attention from the other culprit of the situation, who made this an issue - TM. Had we had defensive cover of an adequate standard and not been threadbare in defence, Lenihen missing for injury, parental leave or any other reason would have been far less grievous. 

The fact we only had Mulgrew available 2+ windows after realising he wasn't good enough (and there's a school of thought there was some prior warning to that too, including his age) is shambolic. The fact the only other centre back is also possibly our first choice left back (Williams) and is good enough for neither position really also shows the mess TM has made. If one didn't have to show horn Bennett in and Williams was fit he should have slotted in at left back as he's not an utter liability there unlike Bennett. So we haven't had cover, proper cover, in terms of numbers or quality all season. 

If this had been a game under Big Sam say or Hughes, no one would have batted an eye as there was plenty of cover in defence. Likewise under Souness. No one wouldve cared had it been Samuel or Gally  It's only an issue at all because we have such a terribly unbalanced squad. That's nothing to do with Lenihen whatsoever. 

To be fair, I haven't seen anybody "blame it all on Lenihan".

People were having a general discussion about players missing games to be at their children's births. 

Not referring to you, but it really seemed to work some people for no apparent reason. The usual suspects. 

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So wait a minute...we should be banning all under 16's from attending games so that the club can look edgy and cool?  

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2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

To be fair, I haven't seen anybody "blame it all on Lenihan".

People were having a general discussion about players missing games to be at their children's births. 

Not referring to you, but it really seemed to work some people for no apparent reason. The usual suspects. 

They did. Which is what got some of us worked up. I'm not going to point fingers but at least one poster was very specific in saying that the lad's decision ended our season. And that is ludicrous. 

Anyway its been done to death now.

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9 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

They did. Which is what got some of us worked up. I'm not going to point fingers but at least one poster was very specific in saying that the lad's decision ended our season. And that is ludicrous. 

Anyway its been done to death now.

:lol: that’s very big of you.

For some reason you’ve started getting very personal over this and a few other things recently. Hope everything is ok out there in the real world.

The reason our season is over is the obvious one: Mowbray. He picked Mulgrew because he is a crap manager. This crapness is further evidenced by the fact that he has neglected our defence to the point of dereliction. Lenihan deciding to go to the hospital instead of driving there after the game was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

And now our season is over.

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1 minute ago, Stuart said:

:lol: that’s very big of you.

For some reason you’ve started getting very personal over this and a few other things recently. Hope everything is ok out there in the real world.

The reason our season is over is the obvious one: Mowbray. He picked Mulgrew because he is a crap manager. This crapness is further evidenced by the fact that he has neglected our defence to the point of dereliction. Lenihan deciding to go to the hospital instead of driving there after the game was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

And now our season is over.

Crap manager? I am critical of various things but thats really harsh.

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Crap manager? I am critical of various things but thats really harsh.

It’s all relative. But ok, crap is probably harsh, he’s stayed up 2 out of three times. I’ll downgrade to mediocre.

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1 hour ago, Stuart said:

:lol: that’s very big of you.

For some reason you’ve started getting very personal over this and a few other things recently. Hope everything is ok out there in the real world.

The reason our season is over is the obvious one: Mowbray. He picked Mulgrew because he is a crap manager. This crapness is further evidenced by the fact that he has neglected our defence to the point of dereliction. Lenihan deciding to go to the hospital instead of driving there after the game was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

And now our season is over.

No it wasn’t personal Stuart. You played that card on the other thread as well. I deliberately didn’t name you again here for that very reason actually. I have fundamentally disagreed with you on a couple of issues that’s all. One was your insistence that LIverpool only won the league because of VAR and the other was your very clear remark about Lenihan’s decision to miss the Barnsley game ending our season. They are both very extreme to say the least but you are of course entitled to hold them. Just as I am entitled to strongly disagree if that’s how I feel. I have nothing against you personally at all, as I said before I don’t think I even know you in the ‘real’ world and if I did I would still buy you a pint despite our differences of opinion. It’s not that important really but it is a messageboard where different views are exchanged and as far as I can see that is all we’ve done. 

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16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Crap manager? I am critical of various things but thats really harsh.

Agreed. Whilst I think Mowbray is the culprit of posessing way too much pride, crap is very harsh. We have the 5th (maybe 6th don't quote me on it) lowest wage budget in the division. In 2018/2019, Reading spent £40,000,000+ on wages. We spent £22,000,000. Half the wages to play with, yet we're ahead of them in the table, with much better prospects going forward in our younger talents.

Crap manager my arse. Yes he makes odd decisions, plays his pals and his transfer record is hit and miss - but at the end of the day it's undeniable that he's taken a League One side to a position where we're putting pressure on the top end of the Championship. We're 99% likely to fall this year, but considering our injuries the fact we're even in the discussion is pretty admirable.

I've been critical of his handling of the youth players in the past, but this season I've been pretty impressed. He's blooded JRC, Buckley and Travis, developed Armstrong into a serious top end CH player and we've built a team around Travis and Lenihan (who are both basically academy graduates). He has his difficult points, and sure, he probably won't be here forever, but for anyone to just say - yeah he's crap - like that's all there is to it, is baffling to me.

Was Gary Bowyer crap? I wouldn't say so. We had a team featuring the likes of Tommy Spurr, Alex Baptiste, Lee Williamson and for a time Chris Brown - yet still threatened the top of the Championship with bargain buys like Craig Conway and Rudy Gestede. Mediocre and stagnant is a word often used to describe his tenure-ship but I always find that to be a very oversimplified view of his time at the club - and I fear that in the future, when Tony Mowbray and his coaching team are long gone, people will look back on him and say - "stagnant.. mediocre" and I find that SO harsh.

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Posted (edited)

The problem with Bowyer was he was learning first team management with us,  with an upper Championship squad, which was a great opportunity for him, by the way and he dealt with all the off field BS excellently. 

Unfortunately, on the pitch we were against the clock with parachute payments running out, an embargo incoming and a good set of Championship players not far from being broke up.

We needed promotion then and there, a Warnock, a McCarthy to give us the best chance, alas the slow motion crash happened anyway...

Edited by Mattyblue

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16 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Agreed. Whilst I think Mowbray is the culprit of posessing way too much pride, crap is very harsh. We have the 5th (maybe 6th don't quote me on it) lowest wage budget in the division. In 2018/2019, Reading spent £40,000,000+ on wages. We spent £22,000,000. Half the wages to play with, yet we're ahead of them in the table, with much better prospects going forward in our younger talents.

Crap manager my arse. Yes he makes odd decisions, plays his pals and his transfer record is hit and miss - but at the end of the day it's undeniable that he's taken a League One side to a position where we're putting pressure on the top end of the Championship. We're 99% likely to fall this year, but considering our injuries the fact we're even in the discussion is pretty admirable.

I've been critical of his handling of the youth players in the past, but this season I've been pretty impressed. He's blooded JRC, Buckley and Travis, developed Armstrong into a serious top end CH player and we've built a team around Travis and Lenihan (who are both basically academy graduates). He has his difficult points, and sure, he probably won't be here forever, but for anyone to just say - yeah he's crap - like that's all there is to it, is baffling to me.

Was Gary Bowyer crap? I wouldn't say so. We had a team featuring the likes of Tommy Spurr, Alex Baptiste, Lee Williamson and for a time Chris Brown - yet still threatened the top of the Championship with bargain buys like Craig Conway and Rudy Gestede. Mediocre and stagnant is a word often used to describe his tenure-ship but I always find that to be a very oversimplified view of his time at the club - and I fear that in the future, when Tony Mowbray and his coaching team are long gone, people will look back on him and say - "stagnant.. mediocre" and I find that SO harsh.

Conversely, as I said prior I dont swallow this about us having minimal resources compared to most other teams and I think in your analysis you have overdone that narrative again, even though of course I agree that he certainly is not a crap manager.

In 2018/19, we had the 16th highest wage budget and finished 15th, so about right if it is just to be measured on that. Of course, since we have moved upwards in the table and I suspect also in the wage table with the additions of Johnson, Holtby, Gallagher, Adarabioyo, Walton and Downing. So just on wages, we arent really over or underachieving. 

You also have to factor in that our wage budget unlike some isnt swollen due to the unavoidable retention of Premier League players that are of no use. You also have to factor in the net spend Mowbray has had, over 10m in 2 years and no pressure to sell any key assets, giving him a head start on many other teams.

Also, he took a perilous Championship side struggling against relegation and failed to keep them up, dont forget that. But if he left tomorrow his job would have to be considered a success. The club is certainly in a better position now and the trajectory following his initial failure to keep us up, which was always an uphill task, has been an upward one. Has it been as upward as it perhaps could have been, considering what hes had and spent poorly etc, thats another debate, but to call him a crap manager is not only unfair but a little disrespectful IMO. Hes done a good job that I am grateful for,

Comparisons with Bowyer are incredibly difficult. He inherited Rhodes and otherwise an absolute car crash. He also had a transfer embargo to deal with towards the end and he definitely stayed on too long and he definitely underachieved with the players available. Some similar faults too, over loyalty to poor players, imbalanced teams etc. But certainly no 5m/7m strikers that he coldl bring in.

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On 04/07/2020 at 20:28, JoeH said:

Agreed. Whilst I think Mowbray is the culprit of posessing way too much pride, crap is very harsh. We have the 5th (maybe 6th don't quote me on it) lowest wage budget in the division. In 2018/2019, Reading spent £40,000,000+ on wages. We spent £22,000,000. Half the wages to play with, yet we're ahead of them in the table, with much better prospects going forward in our younger talents.

Crap manager my arse. Yes he makes odd decisions, plays his pals and his transfer record is hit and miss - but at the end of the day it's undeniable that he's taken a League One side to a position where we're putting pressure on the top end of the Championship. We're 99% likely to fall this year, but considering our injuries the fact we're even in the discussion is pretty admirable.

I've been critical of his handling of the youth players in the past, but this season I've been pretty impressed. He's blooded JRC, Buckley and Travis, developed Armstrong into a serious top end CH player and we've built a team around Travis and Lenihan (who are both basically academy graduates). He has his difficult points, and sure, he probably won't be here forever, but for anyone to just say - yeah he's crap - like that's all there is to it, is baffling to me.

Was Gary Bowyer crap? I wouldn't say so. We had a team featuring the likes of Tommy Spurr, Alex Baptiste, Lee Williamson and for a time Chris Brown - yet still threatened the top of the Championship with bargain buys like Craig Conway and Rudy Gestede. Mediocre and stagnant is a word often used to describe his tenure-ship but I always find that to be a very oversimplified view of his time at the club - and I fear that in the future, when Tony Mowbray and his coaching team are long gone, people will look back on him and say - "stagnant.. mediocre" and I find that SO harsh.

While I agree with the post as a whole that it is harsh to call TM a crap manager, I have to take issue with the bit in bold slightly.

We were never a League 1 side. We were a Championship side playing in League 1. Coyle was a terrible manager that did his best to get us relegated. We then brought in TM who did not quite have enough about him to prevent us going down. That said, we went down on record points and on goal difference even then. 

No players were sold upon relegation, so we essentially already had a Championship team in L1. We then had the biggest wgae and transfer budget and were able to buy the divisions best player among others. We brought in AA on loan who had previously shown that he was capable of scoring bucket loads in that division. There is no way way we were a League 1 club apart from actually being there. We still could have messed up getting promotion too - thanks to the same experiments that TM likes to perform on a regular basis.   

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23 hours ago, JacknOry said:

While I agree with the post as a whole that it is harsh to call TM a crap manager, I have to take issue with the bit in bold slightly.

We were never a League 1 side. We were a Championship side playing in League 1. Coyle was a terrible manager that did his best to get us relegated. We then brought in TM who did not quite have enough about him to prevent us going down. That said, we went down on record points and on goal difference even then. 

No players were sold upon relegation, so we essentially already had a Championship team in L1. We then had the biggest wgae and transfer budget and were able to buy the divisions best player among others. We brought in AA on loan who had previously shown that he was capable of scoring bucket loads in that division. There is no way way we were a League 1 club apart from actually being there. We still could have messed up getting promotion too - thanks to the same experiments that TM likes to perform on a regular basis.   

Sunderland and Ipswich are case studies enough that it doesn't matter what kind of team you have, getting out of League One is TOUGH and Mowbray did well to achieve it, no matter what his squad was.

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32 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Sunderland and Ipswich are case studies enough that it doesn't matter what kind of team you have, getting out of League One is TOUGH and Mowbray did well to achieve it, no matter what his squad was.

The Sunderland team that had already experienced 2-straight relegations? Obviously a lot wrong with that squad and setup as the documentaries has shown. Ipswich could hardly have claimed to have the best budget/wages in the league either - besides, they were hit with karma after how the fans treated MM. It doesnt have to be that tough to get out of, ask Rotherham who always seem to bounce straight back out of it. 

Anyhow, you kind of missed the whole point I was making.

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