Don' think people are Tris , just saying that he is not totally innocent ( or ignorant to what he has done) and I am including myself in this. As yet, I have only heard or read one extract that this lad actually shouted/chanted anything of racial quantity in the direction of lazy arse and that is Skip further up this board (at last) which it would appear the lad in question has admitted and suffered the consequences. I still ask the question of if it was that bad why wasn't he arrested at the time considering the Police and stewards in the vicinity - they are quick enough to arrest people or throw them out when they stand up and as we all know as mentioned before, for years there have been steps in place to try and cut this sort of behaviour out. My argument was how anybody could interpret his actions on the TV picture as being racist (which is all we had to go on at the time)- obviously now the accused did say something to lazy arse of which I agree they have deserved what they have got. however lazy arse went about it the totally wrong way as did prick head bruce. Would appear these multi millionaires are getting above the law themselves and thinking they are better than the man stood next to them as the case would be anything that happens nowadays to players is not there own fault but somebody elses - ah diddumms ...... they like to take the plaudits ( and money) but I still insist lazy arse could not take the stick he was getting (racial bit aside) and would not have done this if the events of Madrid had not happened and it wasn't on SKY TV. Don't get me wrong on the raciscm issue as I am totally against it, but I am also against 'PC' especially when something like this has so much time wasted on it when there are far more important issues that need dealing with. Would have like to have seen if it had been Muzzy Izzet who had been the subject of abuse and the same /or somebody else had tried to immitate a turkey and it looked like a monkey whether the same media circus had carried on. Personally I find it all really sad that it has happened like this - and a sad reflection of the greedy/selfish direspectful society live in.

Never reported any either though did he American - even though it did happen and far worse than what happened on Sunday - so who is bearing the grudge now. All in all the lad has got his just deserts for being an imbecile - a little harsh possibly as others have said considering what else goes on in life and football. Yorke is far from innocent in this yet it his him who has come out of it 'whiter than white'so to speak - now is that racist??

And that's racist is it American??? Never said I did - but it would appear others seemed to do including yourself before the lads involved had given their side - the SKY pictures didn't prove anything so why all the hullaballo. So the word of one lazy barsteward is testament is it without proof - I'll tell you what watch any highlights of any football match this weekend and see if you can't spot similar antics in the crowd and see if any of the same rigmarole ensues - I doubt it. Think I might try this one and go the police the next time an opposition fan calls me a whippet walking clog wearing northern barsteward and see if I get anywhere with it. Yorke made as much as he could out of this because he didn't like what was going on from the rest of the crowd and made much of a snowflake by turning it into an avalanche - this will not have been the first time this has happened but sure enough he hasn't raised any complaints before. All I can say is watch you your back supporters otherwise you could have a lawsuit pending your way. There is no place for racism but this has gone way to far with the over sensationilism. Jesus christ - they'll be banning White Christmas soon

There's a juxtaposition there somewhere Don't know what chimps (I've never seen anybody resembling that down't road in Bumley ) you've seen but his actions look similar to when my little one is 'filling' his nappy. Anyway, one of them has pleaded guilty now so fair do's to his honesty Just think next time I see the Incredible Hulk on TV I will send in a letter of complaint insinuating racism.

Well Salostar I am bothered if they are convicted wrongly and consider it very worrying for other fans if there is no evidence to suggest racial intent. There could be incriminating circumstance for any fan going to future matches and I would hate to see what people interpret me jumping up and down waving my hands about as ( especially with my blue and white armbands on Oh look I'm typing in black - will this be the next issue as this is what the whole issue appears to have turned into IMO. Bit of a joke really - where was all this hullaballo when Tugay got far more abuse at Leeds last season and there is only a small incident of a Turkish fan being stabbed to death at the weekend.

Fair do's salostar and I respect what you are saying but as Morph says 'innocent till proven guilty' n all that. My point was it all alleged and only by Porke lazy arse and Steve ' the prick' Bruce who was nowhere near the incident - 'ALLEGED' racial abuse is what they have been arrested for which suggests to me that they don't have the evidence - the matter re the Police and Stewards is this -it is an offence to commit anything of racial intent within a football stadium (at least in England) and there is enough against racism campaigns going on in this country as there has been for years. The Police and stewards are well aware of this matter so if there was anything of major concern they would have been arrested at the game - if there is any eveidence of racialism then throw the book at them but at the moment IMO there isn't and as I have said above - anybody who can turn the pictures from SKY into one is making something that just isn't there. As a child has said ' CHICK CHICK CHICK CHICK CHICKEN LAY A LITTLE EGG FOR ME!!'

For doing what exactly salostar Nothing yet has been proved about there being anything remotely associated with racism except for lazy barsteward chicken-george porke - and the only thing thing I have seen is them giving grief to lazy arse as what another 20,000 other Rovers fans had been giving him except they where closer to him. There where Police and Stewards around the incident and within earshot and nothing has come from either source with regard to there being any racial motivated offence - the Police even threw one of the lads out so they couldn't have thought anything of it. As usual people are jumping to conclusions from a minor incident totally blown out of all proportion by a over- hyped media and a prick called Steve Bruce. Even Brum fans who where at the match and have seen the incident since on the TV have said they have seen nothing of racial quantity and if the sight of somebosy shaking there hands like a demented chicken on speed then god help the rest of the Football fans in this country - in fact they they have agreed with what the majority of Rovers fans in that he is a good for nothing lazy barsteward and a useless dad. Let the lads arrested have there say, personally I feel our club has also been a bit limp wristed on this in terms of a spokeperson, but I presume they have had to toe the line on the matter as per the police considering recent events.

Historically its against us, teams who are on a run of draws normally end up breaking the run by getting beat, and after Sunday's debacle rollercoaster I can't see past a defeat. Fulham pretty strong at home us so unpredictable its predictable - we haven't exactly done well at Craven Cottage over the years and our guarantee of at least conceeding/giving x1 goal away will end our mini revival. 2-0 Foolham with Cole to continue the run of ex players scoring against us.

That's the question though Alan - is it? I could have sworn we had x2 left sided players both naturally left footed in the squad. No point in weakening two postions to accommodate 1 position in my book - play your strongest in their best positions - and only as a last resort use players to cover other positions.

Good post but imo for what its worth........ 1. Dickov - Enigma - hardworking pest who gives 100% and has probably been our player of the season so far- question is is it enough? - too many parallels for me wiith Ward - tries hard but the end result is not enough - we need goals - Can we afford to leave him out? No way. That really would be shooting ourselves in the foot. ======================================== Mceveley - Slow or just sluggish on the turn - passed far too easily for my liking - similar too Gresko and Johansson in that matter but a better player. Is he good enough - not sure but I doubt Gray would have been passed so easily yesterday - certainly at fault for the first. Yet he suprised me by comfortably matching Cisse and Baros stride for stride.... and they are no slouches ===================================================== Reid - best game so far and looks like he has got over his injury problems - covered every blade of grass and deserved his MOM award - determination and grit was there - can he be dropped - not on yesterday's performance - questionable about the goal but where was the rest of the defence. A big ? over that 3rd goal I'm afraid. ===================================================== Dickov - can't see how TND - at the moment maybe but not when everybody is fit. We are fighting for our Premiership survival and to me we should be using everybody as effectively as possible. Bringing on Dickov from the bench mayber for the last 30/35 mins would get at the defenders more and he would be more fresh - he is not exactly a goalscoring threat which is what we need and he has this annoying habit of going for a foul rather than the ball - As good as he has been with his workrate (one of the best I have ever seen in my time of watching Football) its not producing enough positive end results look at how many tyime his pass or attepted cross is blocked. Mceveley - Not saying he is slow pace wise just slow in the turn - showed he has a turn of pace when attacking but also has the annoying habot of letting th player run and get past him before making a challenge. Reid - agree but feel he made up for it wiith want else he contributed and hopefully as he get more match errors/cock ups like this will be minimal if made at all. As for the rest I just find it highly annoying that Enerton who I have slagged all last season was just beginning to show what he is apparently capable of on the right and he gets switched to the left - people are saying he had a good game Sunday but got tired towards the end - too me he did a lot of running with no end result - shame really as I feel he could probably be the major cog for us this season if we sort the unbalance of the team out and cut out the mistakes. Don't know what it is about managers - especially nowadays re playing players out of position - too me surely its better to play them in their own positions where they are strongest at .

See I knew you liked him really Respectfully though 1864 I think you know as well as I do that it wasn't just over a simple argument. From all accounts , GS wanted him to play anywhere but the CM where he wanted his beloved Flitcroft to play - he was trying to turn him into player that he simply wasn't/isn't (like saying to Shearer I'll play you CM rather than striker even though he could probably have done it anyway). Add onto that he was on the verge of making it into the England squad it was in best professional interest to move on and from what I have been told from somebody who use to go out with Dunny (girlfriends where mates) the underlyings of the problems with Yorke and Cole where in full flow also and he felt he needed to get away. I can understand you saying about re anybody having the club in their heart and wanting to move, but personally I feel Dunn wanted to play and in his favoured attacking midfielder role

Not a bad post OP for the first Absolutely and I still can't see where they get the ' monkey' from what I have seen thus far. Two losers with a cross to bear Basically its just a bandwagon jumped on by the media because of what happened in Madrid and people are adding 2 & 2 and getting 73 as usual. over something that was a minor incident further fuelled by Yorke himself. Nobody can condone racism but this has been totally blown out of all proportion - 10 o'clock news FFS! There has been no factual offical reporting yet of any racist chants and most inc stewards in the area have said they heard nothing remotely like racist chanting. Chicken-George Yorke - LAZY ROBBING BARSTEWARD

I'm surprised at your viewpoint on this 1864. Personally I also thought he had a good game considering the amount of time out with his hamstring problem. There will always be arguments over Dunn and its each too their own, but I feel and will always stand by it that Souness ruined Dunn. Playing him out of position when he was just beginning to bear the fruits of showing how good an attacking midfielder he actually was when in full flow. Whether he would have have the same injuries or his suppose off field jaunts would have have carried we will never know. What I feel many will agree on - is we lost a very talented player who WANTED too play for Blackburn Rovers.

Totally agree TND My observations - for the third game running I have come off after seeing two teams who are certainly going to be in the running for relegation - the common denominator being US. Speaking to a couple of other members of the this MB at half time ( inc admin) and we where at our Nadir. After starting off like an house on fire we succummbed to typical Rovers and sat back and gave Brum as much space and time with the ball as possible and as ususal crumbled defensively and conceded our pro rata 3 goals per game. Somebody has already mentioned on here (1864?) about them individually being decent but as a unit incapable or needs working at - personally I feel there is too much 'ball watching' going on which is apparent througout the team with nobody attacking the ball or reacting first but is more predominat in the defence IMO - Hughes is still playing it wrong and needs to address this. Emerton is not productive enough on the left and I disagree with those who said he had a great game yesterday. Too many times he has to come back on his right and was out of position so many times our attack threat broke down - yes his work rate has improved and he does look more lively but not on the left - too many times he wanders into the middle and when the pass is on for the left hand side Mceveley is having to make up for the gap - which could go some way to explaining is lack of acceleration in defence. In addition , interesting not many slag him for not covering for Mceveley but the same are dissing Pedersen before he has even had a chance. Question is who should play - Reid /Emerton/Pedesen? Hate to say it but it looks like Tugay is not the player he was - still feel he has part to play but Thompson looks like he might be the one to take the sidekick berth now to Ferguson. Dickov - Enigma - hardworking pest who gives 100% and has probably been our player of the season so far- question is is it enough? - too many parallels for me wiith Ward - tries hard but the end result is not enough - we need goals - Can we afford to leave him out? Again IMO barring everybody being fit I would have him on the bench ( never!!) and bring him on for the last half hour or more where I feel it would be far more effective - goes for too many fouls for me and as of yesterday was arguing with the linesman when the ball broke forwards and he had is back too to the play. Mceveley - Slow or just sluggish on the turn - passed far too easily for my liking - similar too Gresko and Johansson in that matter but a better player. Is he good enough - not sure but I doubt Gray would have been passed so easily yesterday - certainly at fault for the first. Gallagher - Great to see him back and showed those little touches and knock throughs that opens up defences - needs to start the next game - his coming on was to me the one that got us going rather than Thompson. Thompson - good game when he came on and has the confidence too shoot ( at last somebody) will get better and another who should certainly start next game - appears to let Ferguson do what he is good at. Jansen - plays again and scores again - back up front where he should be playing - wins headers as well - just a shame we don't have anybody to react to them - injured? interesting to hear the outcome - need him fit as although not back to the Jansen of old still certainly has something to give. Reid - best game so far and looks like he has got over his injury problems - covered every blade of grass and deserved his MOM award - determination and grit was there - can he be dropped - not on yesterday's performance - questionable about the goal but where was the rest of the defence. Now for the rest Friedal - spotted by many and looks adrift of confidence and to the goalkeeping eye is making alot of errors and is not commanding of his area. Maybe a continuation of the Nissa/Todd partnership may just help him rediscover the 'Superman' tag. Neill - Liability (say no more) - as Bryan has said looks like he isn't bothered and is too casual for my liking. Todd/Johansson - As many have said needs to be perseveered with but can one of them please take control at the back and organise and both of them learn to attack the ball Ferguson - would we miss him if he is sold? mmm... appears to be getting the hang of it now - look to have acres of space once Thompson came on. Good too come back from the position we where in (again) but couldn't say whether it was a decent game as it wasn't for me and I just feel we are a 'dead man walking' and yesterday did nothing to change my opinion. Negative maybe but I'm only going from my own feelings - Hughes is doing the best he can out of a not very good bunch I just hope January is not too late. The fight is there but not much else at the moment.

And neither can I If he gets in thet its an absolute joke......

Nothing Hughesy But if I say to you.. a Scouser in a shellsuit- do you get the drift of what people are getting at? As Tris was trying to explain with his initial post - its the way these people are (primarily Burberry wearing folk - but a strage mix of ages on Saturday) and their direspect for other people appears to be the norm amongst this sort of attire wearing people which leads to peoples perceptions of those that choose to wear the clobber. Nothing wrong with wearing the designer labels but don't be misled into thinking it makes you some sort of Stud - its not what you wear ( as what this thread has turned into) but what goes in it. BTW - Know any cheap Lacoste gear on offer?

Discerning none the least though if it he did learn about via the rags. Personally, I feel it was about time - but could be interesting to learn what sort of reaction this has with the the fans - a loyal servant to the club that many a fan have known and met and has always stood in at the dark times and steadied the club. Could a position not have been found for him?- maybe a fan/club co-ordinator (especially with the way the fan/club relationship is at the moment) him knowing the ins and outs behind the doors of EP etc and a trusted man at that. mmmmm....

No it doesn't Hughesy - how about adopting your own style I can understand your liking for designer labels - I like my label clothes ( Lacoste /Ben Sherman/Fred Perry that's the mod boy in me etc) but also like clothes of good appearance which are a fifth of the price. Just depends on what you need- even some of the designer clothes are what I would term 'painting gear' This is what I have never understood about young un's even when I was in my teens early 20's - why try and look like somebody else? Maybe its just me but alot of the youner ones I see nowadays don't look anything like 'well dressed' - more like a bunch of spivs all following the same designer shepherd that literally went to a jumble sale and just bought what he could for 20p. TAKE IT FROM ME - THERE IS NOTHING GOOD ABOUT A GROUP OF LADS ALL WEARING BURBERRY HATS/STONE ISLAND JUMPERS - AND IT DOESN'T IMPRESS THE LADIES (NOT THE DECENT ONES ANWAY)

I hope Mark Hughes is not reading it as there is a flaw in the masterplan. You haven't picked Tugay in your squad. Try plan B And we are always crap playing 451 - noboby ever appears to know what they are supposed to be doing 1864 which totally nullifies any attacking ability we have. Lets just stick to keeping the same players for a change and try and get some consistency in the 442 system which is the only way BRFC can play.

Andy Kennedy the vainest footballer known to man (cept his goal at Villa) We have had our fair share of bad un's but have to say Diaorrea bloke has to be the worse - another GS masterstroke with Beckford and Dickens coming in close with Mckinnon /Pedersen/ Dahlin/ Baggio/Finnigan / Dewhurst and the list goes on ....

And further Adding to those already from Scotty - for you real ale drinkers there is a pub called the 'Coach and Horses' which has its own brewery on site with its own good ales (can't remember the names) and well worth a visit they errect an outside bar for when Norwich play at home - also the Mustard Pot (Norwich fans pub but ok to go in) which are both close to the Cumberland (sausage) Hotel where we stayed, which is only a short walk (10mins) from the centre and the Riverside Complex and the Ground. As for the Cumberland Hotel, can recommend it for the Football special (2 nights with breakfast) and fairly quiet in terms of not hearing other guests etc in their rooms - adequate breakfast (kippers and smoked haddock on offer) and has a restaurant (Cape Dutch) attached which we didn't try so can't comment but the breakfst was abit steep if you where non-resident. As for the bar though - there wasn't much choice for the draft selections and it was an expensive £3.00 a pint -but not too bad due to the two being fairly close above. There is also a Chinese/Cantonese Restaurant across the road which is recommended by the locals(again we didn't try) but we did find a good indian 'The Prince of India' in the centre which we do recommend. Norwich is a bit strange really as it doesn't have the 'City' feeling and its not a very big centre - however we where told that it does get a bit rowdy and there is normally alot of trouble in the Riverside complex after the games due to the younger generation (scroats) going looking for trouble and not neccesarily being football fans - although we didn't see any and the locals seem to be mostly quite amicable there was quite a large presence off Police on Friday night and an unusual amount of the younger generation wandering about the pubs (alot looking under age). For the shoppers amongst you , there is a faily big Shopping Arcade under the Castle but not really many shops on count bu its not a shopping mecca. All in all an enjoyable weekend was spent and hope we have the chance of a revisit fairly soon.

Not quite new but it was being bounded about at Norwich 'Yer mum's yer dad... Yer dad's yer mum ... Yer interbred ..... Ya Burnleh scum .... '

Well Scotty I did ask you before the game how you would expect to report on this after your PO'Nanas (sp) outing the night before. Anyway as many have said, more of a feeling of two points lost than one point gained as without doubt we would have won this game with eleven men on the pitch. Up until a couple of minutes before Bothroyd's sending off we had been second best and looking our ususal nervy selves but we had just about started getting a grip of the game with him being our best player. Why he did this only he knows but there had been a couple of niggly challenges by the Norwich players across the pitch just before which went unpunished by the ref. Contrary to other people watching I thought Neill was poor and was skinned most of the time by the Norwich left and Emerton was certainly below par of his recent games, but at least looks like he has managed to learn the trade of taking corners. Although Dickov worked his socks off, I still feel we are limited up front and we should have him coming of the bench for the last 1/2 hour or so. Their goal you could see coming - and I'll say it again why oh why don't we cover the back post? Its the same when we are attacking where we never have anybody coming in at the back post. Its always difficult to look at a game when your numbers are reduced, however personally I feel Hughes got this one wrong and we should have put on another striker rather than Flitcroft and gone for the win as at the time we had nothing to lose - it was a fairly poor game between two sides destined for relegation on these showings but again this is only my opinion. Anyway a good weekend darn in Narfalk and at the end of the day not a defeat. OH - and nearly forgot - it was a definite penalty typical that the linesman didn't see it yet we where directly in line behind him but managed to see an offside straight after in the same offending position.

Good post Tris good to see ya again but lets not get this out of proportion here. People know my feelings on the standing up situation (I prefer to stand) but from my seat it appeared to be a select few in the midst of it - the surprising thing is the mix of those people involved and not just the stereotypical cap wearing teenagers. However, what I do agree with is it was an embarrassment the way they where conducting themselves and the 'you only sh#t on away fans' chant - although the stewarding did seem to be a bit over the top with the wading in etc. What needs to be taken into the context though is we as a club only have a minority and are far from being worse than the like minded idiots from other clubs. As I said lets not over emphasise it here as I'm sure we will get far more on Saturday - especially when taunted by the Citeh fans of similar nature. This can only go to giving strength to the pro standing campaign and the areas for people to stand - keep standing to an area and you won't get the constant embarrasing chants and unneccessary confrontations and will keep those who want to stand away from those that want to sit. And before those that go on about the safety issue of standing - the situation of the crushing underneath on the concourse at half time should raise more worries.

Gonna be hitting 7/8 o'clock when we get down