It’s feeling like someone has bought a cactus and donated it to the club. It’s the new BRFC plant 

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Agree with most of that. However, I don’t agree that Waggott has tried to bring back lost fans. To date he has looked at ways of maximising the money made out of existing fans.

That’s pretty fair, which is a sad indictment on him. Perhaps even he knows that the lost fans won’t return, without at least some sort of an explanation, so he tries to exploit, those who don’t need one. 

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I see the "remoaner" thing might a joke. I guess the trouble with the term is that it is convenient slang used by the likes of Johnson and Farage to dismiss genuine concerns about a no deal Brexit. Clearly, neither no deal nor Ireland ever came up in the pre referendum er  "debate"/lies ( choose your own term)

Actually, your term may be more aprt than you intended. After all, It is not dissimilar to the language used by those, who dismissed genuine concerns about the ransacking of our club.

Like the country, our fanbase has been bitterly split between "Venky lovers" and "fair weather fans" ( to choose two from many alternatives).

My take is that Steve Kean is pretty much universally hated by Rovers fans. Only 73%? You have to be having a laugh!

For the fans who do think Venkys were badly advised, is it something they want to believe, or has someone senior at the club actually come out and suggested, this was the case?

Since his arrival at the Club, Waggot has been trying to find ways, to bring some lost fans back. If I was one of the owners and was badly advised or duped, I would ensure that this was made public and perhaps ask for an apology and a clean slate. So far as I am aware this badly advised theme, is one thought up by people who perhaps want to believe that.

Whilst I would never knock a fan, who wants to ignore what the owners have done and simply want to attend the matches, it cannot be ignored, how the owners seemed to be complicit in the demise and have never taken any steps to explain that they weren’t. 

5 hours ago, philipl said:

As far as I am aware, any iItalian issues a certain person has now are not associated with our club. There appears to be no time overlap. Vinjay is probably  trying to make links which don't exist.

However, the creative interpretation of what constituted a Premier League full back or manager or permissable ownership are well documented history.

Such opinions and creativity presumably continued elsewhere later in circumstances rather less forgiving than exist in North East Lancashire.

Dance with the devil and pay the consequences. This was always going to happen, even though he thought his friends in high places, might provide cover for him indefinitely. The strongest evidence we have of that cover is the ridiculous crying episode on Sky, but as you say, elsewhere people may not have been quite so forgiving. 

18 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Well according to this article "Global Eleven Ltd" sued Kentaro. They didn't threaten to break Anderson's legs (unfortunately) though obviously people don't normally come out and say that. The son of an aristocrat does not spell gangster to me. Neither does his instagram.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-07/italian-aristocrat-s-fund-sues-after-soccer-investment-flops

https://www.instagram.com/indoosella/?hl=en

I think you might have incorrectly picked up on what I said there. I never said Sella was a Gangster, all I have eluded too is that an agent involved in our club at one time, does have some scary people on his trail now. Certain posters on here, know that is correct. I have never suggested that being the son of an aristocrat, spelt gangster. I merely pointed out that this person, was involved in Blackburn Rovers at one point and the global 11 football fund. The fund was set up to market players, increase their value and make money that way, otherwise known as third party ownership. 

Anderson has got some very scary people on his trail, hence me saying what I did. If you Google Indoo Sella de Monteluce, you will find that he is an Italian Aristocrat, who was involved with a football investment fund, which in turn is linked to Kentaro 

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

Are you talking about Anderson and these so called issues with the Italian mafia?

Yes, but not necessarily the Italian Mafia. There were a few dubious characters about the club back then and as you will see with the link below, it all seemed to lead back to the same person/company.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2010-12-16/aristocrat-s-son-starts-soccer-player-investment-opposed-by-u-k-leagues

7 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

 

When you watch and listen to that again, it makes you realise that the people who fought to get rid of some of the chancers around back then, out of the club, may well have saved us from a Bury has situation. There was a feeding frenzy back then and I admire every single person who brought what was going on to the forefront of things. I along with plenty of others know of phone calls made by one person, involved in dubious goings out, pleading his innocence and making out he was a victim. He didn't get away with it completely and from what I have learned about him recently, he has got his just deserts. 

Just now, arbitro said:

I know little about finances but that's a great name - sounds like a porn movie star ?

I did wonder if it had been made up, but it is there on Companies house in black and white.  

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

4 years to find another multi-millionaire then.

That's right and in the meantime, if the current owners are like the last one, they and their families will have a nice living out of it, make 4% on the funds the have lent to the club and then sell it on or put it into admin again, knowing their loans are secured and they are therefore preferred creditors. Rinse and repeat.

Just now, gazsimm said:

The EFL are thinking of letting Bury FC re-join league 2 next season. This must happen for football and every club in the league should support this. It's cruel and unfair Bury FC have been expelled from the league due to 2 bad owners. The club deserves another chance!!!!!

The big question is, how did they end up with owners like this in the first place? If there is a fraud investigation underway, then you have to wonder.

There were some very strange rumblings about Rovers initial takeover, for anyone who remembers and a Western Union Transfer was cited, as shall we say, questionable. 

Just now, tomphil said:

Repayment in 4 years on low interest and needing god knows how much per year to service it and actually run the club from league 1 income and valueless squad ?

Just another stop gap by the sounds of it but they'd very little choice i'd wager.

What is it all secured against i wonder.

Its got to have been secured against the stadium and the hotel. They won't have a cat in hells chance of repaying the £40m in 4 years. Someone called Nick Luckcock is involved and it may be £20m lent by him and £20m lent by Sharon Brittan. There is a third charge, but that might be the hotel looking at it. 

Just now, JHRover said:

I've tried my best but have been unable to find anything about this Sharon Brittan, her business background or wealth. Quite where she's got the tens of millions needed to settle Bolton's debts and rebuild them over a number of years is a mystery. 

Interestingly there appears to be nothing on this subject on the Bolton News at any point since they were linked with a takeover. You'd think after what happened with Anderson that there would be an analysis of the new owners backgrounds.

There appears to be a consortium of sorts but none of those people seem to have football club owner levels of cash. 

Nonetheless they got the deal done, appointed a decent manager and assistant for their position. Hill is ideal for a club struggling in Leagues One and Two and good at unearthing talent on a budget. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they survive this season. Players like Daryl Murphy and Liam Bridcutt are potentially very good additions for a side at the bottom of the 3rd division. 

Here is a link.

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/911487120/MRS-SHARON-BRITTAN/summary

Looks like they could be back in the same boat in 2022. Sharon Brittan has lent 2 lots of £20m to the club.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11761052

It seems that GMP have now launched a fraud investigation at Bury FC. 

Its an interesting letter from Dale, but of course he has failed to address certain things. the most damning was the sale of the clubs debts to his daughters partner, so you have to wonder if the league are totally to blame, or if it is six of one and half a dozen of the other.

I don't trust the league one little bit  and as can be seen from many a shady owner, getting their hands on clubs, the system needs a total overhaul. 

I did hear that the accountants were brought in, as there appeared to be funds disappearing, with no trace of where these were going. As already mentioned, accountants advising on a traditional business is one thing, but a football club, is a totally different animal.

Here we are all speculating again though, instead of the owners coming out and stating, what has happened in the past, where we are now and where they want us to be in the future. Perhaps once they do, a bit more income could come in, as a few more fans may start to believe in them and trust them. 

Its an utter disgrace that this has happened to Bury. From the purchase of the club for £1 and the league admitting the didn't carry out a fit and proper test, through to the mortgage with an annual interest rate of 138%. How can a greedy individual like this, get away with killing a club like this? Football is becoming a bigger let down to the average fan, with each passing day.

47 minutes ago, arbitro said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/11/bury-takeover-without-full-football-league-approval-transfer-embargo-efl

I have posted this before but David Conn reports that Dale wasn't even subjected to take the fit and proper persons test.

If it's true the EFL have major questions to answer. Lots of fingers are being pointed at Shaun Harvey who was the EGO Chief Exec at the time. He also allegedly turned a blind eye to Anderson's wrongdoings at Bolton.

It appears that Anderson and Shaun Harvey are good mates allegedly. When you are good mates with someone that senior at the EFL who happens to know, he will be gone before too long, perhaps the good of the club was the furthest thing from his thoughts?

Very poor that from both teams. Predicted 0-0 at half time and nothing happened in the second half the resembled a goal coming 

0-0 written all over it at the min. Not enough quality from either side 

Nothing dodgy as in brown envelopes sweeteners and little tickles here and there for services rendered. It's not too long ago that the England Manager had to resign and was possibly a little lucky that his misdemeanours, only cost him is job, allegedly.

Just now, philipl said:

Correction: (not that it is any better)

Company which bought Bury debt reported to be owned by partner of Dale’s daughter

• MP calls for investigation into deal which proved vital
• Debt purchase gave company crucial vote in favour of CVA

David Conn

Fri 23 Aug 2019 19.52 BSTLast modified on Fri 23 Aug 2019 21.15 BST

 

A company which bought a £7m debt owed by Bury for £70,000, and was then able to wield a crucial vote in favour of the club’s company voluntary arrangement (CVA), is reported to be owned by the partner of the daughter of Steve Dale, the club’s owner.

The MP for Bury North, James Frith, has called for an investigation into the sale of the debt to the company, RCR Holdings, which was formed on 16 July, two days before the meeting at which it then voted through the CVA.

RCR Holdings, registered to a private house address in Chadderton, Oldham, is wholly owned by Kris Richards, 41, who is also the sole director. Many Bury supporters immediately identified him as the partner of Dale’s daughter, then BBC Radio Manchester reported on Thursday that Richards had confirmed that to its reporter, Mike Minay.

Richards did not respond to a call or message from the Guardian to confirm it, nor to explain how the RCR deal came about or where the money to buy the debt came from. Dale repeatedly declined to answer the Guardian’s question about whether Richards is his daughter’s partner.

Dale’s CVA for Bury, who declared they were unable to pay their debts, and face a threat of expulsion from the EFL on Saturday, proposed paying “non-football” creditors a quarter of the total £4m they were owed. A meeting to approve it was adjourned on 9 July and rescheduled for 18 July. On 16 July RCR Holdings was formed, with Richards as the sole director and owner of its £100 share capital.

Two days later at the creditors’ meeting, the accountant supervising the CVA, Steven Wiseglass, announced that RCR Holdings had bought a debt of £7.1m owed by Bury to Mederco Ltd, a property company owned by the previous Bury owner, Stewart Day, which is now in administration. The Mederco administrators, the accountants Leonard Curtis, based in Leeds, this week reported to that company’s creditors that the £7m debt was sold to RCR for £20,000, rising to £70,000, one-hundredth of its value.

The weight of the £7m debt proportionate to the money owed to other creditors enabled Richards’ company to have a defining bearing on the vote to pass the CVA.

At the meeting a representative of a law firm Kay Johnson Gee, which had bills of £16,251 unpaid by Bury and voted against the CVA, asked if RCR was seeking a “dividend” alongside other creditors, of a quarter of the £7m debt it had bought for £70,000. RCR’s representative appeared to indicate that the company would not seek a dividend if it meant more money was required to fund the CVA. However, Dale told the Guardian on Thursday that in fact RCR is indeed seeking from the Bury CVA a quarter of the £7m: £1.75m, for a debt bought for £70,000.

Frith has called for an investigation into the RCR purchase of the debt, in a letter to the EFL chair Debbie Jevans this week, in which he said it “raises serious questions as to the relationship between Mederco (and its administrators), RCR Holdings and the current owner [Steve Dale].”

In a statement to the BBC, Dale declined to comment specifically on the RCR purchase or on whether Richards is his daughter’s partner, but said: “All dealings with the CVA have been done in a correct and proper manner.”

Last week the former Bury club secretary Jill Neville wrote to Dale when she resigned after 35 years’ service, calling on him to surrender ownership and control immediately so that the club could remain in the EFL and be saved.

 

 

And this guy was deemed to be fit and proper?. no wonder the game is in a mess. It seems to be full of more crooks and vagabonds, than your average prison.

1 hour ago, philipl said:

Apparently Bury's assets have been transferred to a company controlled by Steve Dale's daughter.

I think it was his daughters boyfriend from what I heard and he denied any connection allegedly. 

7 hours ago, MCMC1875 said:

Steve Dale's record at Companies House: 20 companies in distress or liquidation.

You can find that and wonder if he is fit and proper, but the football authorities couldn't. As we have seen with other dangerous people owning football clubs, if you know the right people it doesn't really matter. I assume it was Dale, who was so fit and proper he signed a Mortgage agreement that had an interest rate of 128%. Its as though he was setting this up to fail, so that his £1 turned into millions, almost over night. Someone will love Bury enough to rescue them at the death. 

The sad thing is, if he goes away for a couple of years and keeps his head down, they will let him repeat his trick again, with another unfortunate club.