? As for Rovers, very important time to get back into some form tonight. For all the talk of defending- we’ve only scored 1 in our previous two games, and something tells me we may need more!

About 15m in fees spent on our current champ attack (minus Harvey) Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher and Dolan. (Dack still to come back, Holtby / Rothwell have played attacking roles but came on frees) Not to bad value for money in hindsight, especially if Gally continues to improve. All relatively young too. Wolves spent 15m on one player 3 years ago - Ruben Neves, to me that indicates the difference between 4 or 5 teams compared to the rest of the top half. The average wage for a champ player 15 years ago too- £3000 a week, now- almost £30k pw. So to me, the argument that “it’s a lot of money to us” never made sense because our expectations should be made by looking at our team compared to others. I would say we get a lot more value for money than others below; 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m 17: Brentford £17.1m 18: Blackburn £16.7m 19: Preston £15m 20: Millwall £13.3m 21: Wigan £11.7m 22: Barnsley £10.6m 23: Charlton £10.2m 24: Luton £6.2m If you look at the rank for wages last season, It shows just exactly what we’re up against, and it also shows how much of a divide in the league there is - due to parachute payments and the huge jump in revenue for one premier league season! I think the simplistic way of evaluating TMs progress with us, most of us would agree it’s potentially time to move on next summer if we fail to get top six. He has raised the expectations exponentially since he arrived. (For me at least)

The spending over the summer is a budget made months before. I also think that many deals would’ve been started / scouted way before anyone knew we’d be out the stadium for so long. That income plays into this, do you think the agents of Nyambe, Holtby and Dack have agreed to cuts or lower upgrades? Football in the championship is purely risk & reward. For a club that’s so poorly run in your eyes, we’re talking about a summer that saw us heavily invest in the playing squad. If we’d merely signed up these lads on longer deals, the problem would’ve been a lack of investment. Not every decision is going to be universally agreed with - Downing, someone used as a specific example of wastage - we’ve already needed him due to the amount of squad missing... didn’t his play lead directly to our winner vs Millwall? The best reward of investing in a big season would mean better contracts for those in the last years anyway, because promotion would see the squad likely double the average wage in one summer.

This can’t come soon enough for me. Whilst having access to watch the games at home has been ok in my experience, I just miss the noise and the energy in the building, even at a third full. I hope the Ewood WMC has survived the pandemic, it’s hard to find any news on that, if anyone knows anything, would be great to know.

The idea that FFP might impact future budgets in a pandemic where clubs have lost huge levels of income doesn’t seem silly to me @JHRover Doesn't seem silly to UEFA either; https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/18/uefa-agree-to-suspend-financial-fair-play-rules-due-to-pandemic Also, an actual manager at a championship club suggesting FL finances may be impacted for up to ten years might be a better opinion to take some insight from, rather than another “we’re a shambles” to the countless pile.

What about FFP? Now I know it’s obviously been ignored by some clubs, but the idea is the owners can pump in a fixed amount. If you lose 5m, or 10m in income, it doesn’t mean the owners can put more in, it means you’ve got to cut back. The link to transfer market - how good of a team could you build on free transfers in 2021 potentially? Josh King - Assombalonga Dack Reach. Osei Samuel Bacuna Richards Cabango Kabasele Femenia Begovic

This is quickly turning into a discussion about the meaning of specific words in a subjective context. I think Sparks are a great 70s band but I’d expect others to disagree!.. Achievements aren’t always objective either; do Accrington Stanley fans call John Coleman a great manager? I expect they would, however his entire career achievements wouldn’t stack up with anyone who’d managed in the top two flights. He’s effectively been one of the key reasons they’re a stable league club, yet his achievements wouldn’t be discussed in the same breath as major trophy or top level promotions. For me the Great aspect of TMs job, as I’ve said repeatedly, is the turnaround from basket case sinking quickly, to expectations of promotion within 3 years.

I’m not sure any football league club could’ve anticipated what’s gone on this season, the potential problem of 10% usual season ticket sales, a huge drop in commercial income and no fans potentially allowed in the ground for the first half of the season. Budgets are normally set the season before, and whilst I would agree with the concern of losing some of our best young players for free, similar to what happened to Hoilett - I would afford every team in the FL a bit of leeway in terms of being able to deal with a scenario that’s required 500m+ in emergency funds for league 1/2 from the PL and other streams. Decimated is a how I’d describe the impact on the (already teetering) finance of most clubs this year. It may be a good thing in the long term however - some examples of how this may force a “reboot” of clubs finances, with all cutting back more and thus players having to take cuts rather than upgrades; https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/08/covid-19-impact-on-football-10-years-get-back-where-we-were-managers-players-scout QPR Warburton; “ I really think it could be another 10 years before we get back to a financial level similar to now” I imagine our problems on the contract front are echoed across the football league, where £ discussed for new contracts/extensions/upgrades is a complete different picture post pandemic. The potential, which the initial post illustrates - some European/further afield countries have been impacted far less than our leagues - the chance of losing young lads abroad for nothing is probably magnified because of this. Also the premier league with their spending power will likely end up cleaning up some of these players from multiple clubs - have a look at how serious this issue is across the league; https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB2 One thing I think all rovers fans will agree on, we will sleep better when the likes of Nyambe et al are tied down on longer contracts!

Of course it goes both ways, that’s what subjective means. Can agree that great managers win trophies and promotions, the lack Of both would suggest Mark Hughes wasn’t a great manager for us. I’d disagree and suggest he did an excellent job of having us punch above our weight, Moyes at Everton never won a trophy in ten years - did a great job similar to Hughes, getting them in Europe and in the top 6. The big factor in my view on TM doing a fine job so far is the scenario which he inherited, as you point out, including a bat shit crazy (potentially criminally ran) ownership.

Subjective semantics. A lot of my judgement on Tony M comes from the absolute dumpster fire he inherited. It’s a complete different club in only 3 and a bit seasons

Bowyer got a team (in first and second stint) with Rhodes in the team, at the time this was akin to getting a team with the best goal scorer in the league. Tony Mowbray signed possibly 2020/21s top scorer in 2018 for 1.5/3m, and whilst thats only one example, its a similar story across the squad, as Dream’s points out - development thats worth recognition.

Yea I alluded to that in only a little bit of detail (the taps turning off) back end of the GB season when Cairney disappeared for nowt! In TMs first game in charge, Burton away - the likes of Wes Brown and Stokes on the bench. We had a very bad team at that point.

They’ve managed in different scenarios - for example Bowyer inherited a good albeit lopsided squad and spent what little money he had really well - he was a good manager for us at the time, and I was surprised when he was potted but relieved (at the time) Lambert came in. Lambert took us backwards, even though I rate him as decent. That’s how bad the club was being run at that time, as the better players started to leave too. After that utter donut gobshite got involved, the scenario TM inherited was a much different proposition to GB. Was unlucky not to keep us up. The turnaround since has been excellent, and I agree too that he’s needed decent backing from the owners to do that.

That’s a nice tip on Gary - one of my favourite players on his day. Some others worth a mention who’ve had decent years 20/1+ Nathan Aspinall, Glen Durrant, Devon Peterson and James Wade. Also Mervyn King who put up a decent fight against MVG is 100/1 and Jackpot Lewis 110....!

Subjective semantics I guess, I’d call Kenny a legend for what he did for us, Hughes and Souness club icons - perhaps Mowbray is a step away from greatness in the general eye, but for me - the overall turnaround of club since he arrived has been excellent.

If you look back, there is a two word part that is in bold. For me, TM has been a great manager - I guess my view of the state of the club before he arrived, was far worse than yours. Doesn’t mean other choices would’ve done worse, I just think he’s done a very good job up to now. A promotion back to the premier league would put him into a lofty status in my opinion, in terms of managers we’ve had in our history.

For two reasons I’d call him a great manager; firstly, by helping us to avoid a seemingly nailed on stint in the third tier, albeit with a decent wage and transfer budget and academy, yet Sunderland and others prove this isn’t simple. Second reason is the gradual improvement of expectations, back in the championship. This (for me) comes an overall approach to improving team, training, facilities etc This is helping our young players take the step up into the team, utilising Damien Johnson as a first team coach is big part of this planning and development. He’s also recruited reasonably well, and responded tactically to issues with injuries. In terms of Warnock / Hughton, it’s hard to disagree that they’re more successful managers at this level in terms promotion / achievements. There’s scope to discuss their individual impact for us though - Warnock instead of Coyle at the time would’ve been a no-brainier, but would he improve the academy to first team cohesion, and put other building blocks in place the club desperately needed? Not sure. Would’ve been a lot better than the reprobate Coyle, that’s for sure. In terms of Hughton, no doubt in his class and quality as a manager, he’s essentially been a decent premier league manager and has had decent success, albeit not enough to keep clubs mid table. In terms of championship level; Title with Newcastle in first season on playoffs (NUFC relegated season before) Play off defeat with Birmingham (BFC relegated season before) Promotion with Brighton at second attempt - Brighton had previously been in three out of 4 play offs (season before he joined, remember “poo gate” vs Palace?) 2 out of 3 promotions, both with heavily fancied and financed teams - I would expect Forest to be his most difficult test to date. Would he be a good appointment for us? I think so, but I don’t think he would’ve got us promoted to the prem yet, as his CV suggests that’s only really likely with a top budget. Warnock is the one more likely to get unfashionable, un fancied teams nearer - but I think well past his best. Funnily enough, for me, probably still one of the best choices for manager, for a team like us.... we sacked in 2010 to start “the bad times” off...!

Tried to find another thread regarding this however not much to go on. Two reason for starting; 1. One of my favourite tv competitions of recent years starts in ten days - the PDC world championship at Alexander palace. Anybody looking forward? Any betting tips? A player I’ve met a couple of times, Dave Evans is in this year, playing Ross Smith. 2. Lockdown this year has meant several hours more than usual on my own practice board. I’ve updated my setup board and light, darts, flights etc - interested in any other BRFCS lads who play for any practice games you might have come up with, any tips or chat on your setup, and we have also made up for the pubs being shut (a little at least) by playing google hangout games and tournaments, always welcome to new players.

That’s bit is the chicken and the egg - I seem to recall a comment from TM early days about needing to be fit enough, strong enough and full of the “Bennett or Evans“ effort and energy level if he is going to get more chances. Post lockdown, he appeared to have physically matured imo.

I agree that our strengths don’t lie at the back and whilst we’ve suffered a few injuries, we’ve also dealt relatively well with losing a couple to Covid, and our backup keeper has had to be called on. Some confidence in that level of depth. I agree too that we need some luck, like not losing Dack for 10 months last season - any big injury to the main men at the back; Lenihan, Kaminski, Nyambe - could be very difficult to be competitive.

Arguing with whom? There’s no argument here, just individual opinions. My opinion in 2018 and 2019 was “he hasn’t had enough of a chance yet” and it’s now “he’s developing into a player through opportunity and potential”. For some this is hard to take seemingly! As for responding with a link to a post I already replied too, utterly pointless.

https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/forums/topic/33524-ben-brereton/&do=findComment&comment=1904473

He barely had a start in his first two seasons, yet in that time he’d been pronounced a dud. He’s gradually had more impact in his chances, Bristol at home last season stick out, leading up to consecutive starts. For all the mental gymnastics going on - no supporter, in my view, could’ve had a reasonable amount of evidence to make judgement. Yet they did, and here we are.

I guess the summary of my overall view now would’ve been that this spell of improvement would probably come during a proper run of games to get match fit. Also after time due to age.

As previously mentioned - the minutes, starts and opportunities, in my view; prevented any supporter from making any full judgement. Hence the disagreement.