I think @Mashed Potatoesis saying this is Maggots brief. This is what gets me. No one with and nous should or would do this, which is why its unfathomable he has done all of those things. No one could be that idiotic unless instructed to do so. And if instructed to do so he's still an utter low life for agreeing to do said stuff.

For me it comes down to I'd expect better from a business studies undergraduate student. He's stealing a living.

There's a couple I'd have given more.of a chance. Big Sam being foremost amongst them. However Lampard with his past record wouldn't be one of them. He's not what they need at all. If it was someone who had proven pedigree and fitted I'd give them longer but Lampard hasn't got the oedegree, results or fit to warrant this imo.

Indeed. By we I primarily mean the fans. Also when was the last time a season wasn't written off by the powers that be?

In isolation a point with 10 men is a good result. Look at the thinness of the squad and it confirms that opinion. Problem is this is our run of winnable games to cement our playoff place. So far it's 1 out of 6. In that regard it's not going well at all. And whilst it's so important we get the right people in, especially with limited budget, once again we see how there was a need for deals to be done quickly. A new signing or two might have made all the difference in the last couple of games. Whilst getting it right takes priority, which may take time, I have a feeling we may end up regretting our January inertia.

Good idea not to feed the troll. Never will get those qualities, as engagement and discussion isn't the aim here. Also in fairness Vale doesn't have any. The most constructive argument we've had on here for Vale is our other strikers are just as crap which is hardly a ringing endorsement.. ( imo may be true the last couple of performances but on a wider level isn't true as Bereton and Gally have shown something at this level before.)

Lampard surely is done. Mind you that was obvious to everyone. Struggled when he could get bring in better quality at Derby (and when could spend at Chelsea too) and hasn't improved a single teams position that he has had. And given Everton are broke he can't even bring in said qualify to bit make a difference. He and Everton are goosed.

I could be wrong but based on lack of engagement with people's points i think said sage is meant as a parody persona / wum rather than something to be taken seriously. Besides McCarthy had a good career before then and whilst his stint at Cardiff in the second season was poor, they've got through 2 managers since then which suggests bigger issues at the club or a poisoned chalice.

I cannot think of another manager at any other club who was afforded such admiration for so little. Ignoring repeated shocking runs that would have him booted elsewhere, the snide comments slagging off fans, the idiotic positioning of players at times and the scapegoating of youth all should have turned fans against him. Yet in the main - here excepted - it doesn't. Never heard of another club with so bullet proof a manager.

That is crazy! Mind you given good managers are often poached and it's best to get rid of a mistake appointment quickly perhaps it's not quite as crazy as it seems. Still pretty cutthroat though and makes you wonder how TM survived umpteen winless runs. Almost like we don't care what happens on the pitch.

Woosh! Well that went right over my head, doh.

And given the right back misses as many as he plays, its a stretch to say we are unlikely to see JRC at right back. Good point. Hopefully fatigue outweighs moral. Shame they are on a decent run, we generally need sides not to be of late.

We can start to feel superior,or goodness even on a par with Brentford, when we have a string of successes of brought and sold. Look at their striker cycle - how many sold for big profits with a successful replacement. We've not replaced Armstrong, may not get anything for Ben and have Gally and Vale lined up as replacements. Hard to feel smug about things.

Didn't Bristol play last night to extra time. That's got to give us the edge if we have a high intensity game. Cue us ponderously passing it round the back.

So much of this resonates with me. To me though it's simple, under Venkys it's the first time I've thought winning games wasn't the primary objective. We've had some pretty shoddy managers before who've massively struggled with that objective but I've never thought prior to Venkys that wasn't what we were aiming for. 12 years of that. No wonder fans have left or are losing their passion for the club.

Aside from the fact that seasoned pros help the youngsters develop, he's contradicted himself by signing Morton. Who really blocks the pathway of our midfield and offers no help or sell on value.

Problem is that at every level that there is a raft of inexperience in the team. Do it on the cheap is our motto. The two you mentioned are our senior pros in midfield. Not kids but hardly experienced seasoned pros. And of that in his development up until the last year (half way through TMs last season) Buckley has played in most positions on the pitch. Hardly going to help him master a position, nor will the lack of a seasoned vet in cm alongside them to help them learn. Then there's the squad fillers. Vale should be nowhere near the squad full stop, Garrett should be getting weekly games on loan, our lack of defenders is always covered by youth - and especially at cb we see how important experience is. Add to the illogicality we add Morton and develop him even though he's not ours nor streets ahead in quality to what we have, we let youth assets go on the cheap (Raya) or free (Lenihan). My word we can't even do cheap right! It was once said you can't win anything with kids, Alan Hansen on manure. Thing was there was still a ton of quality and experience around them. Sure they were talented but everything around then was set up to succeed. We throw the kids in with no support wharsoever.

The thumpings are a concern. The much bigger concern is we haven't got a point when going behind. Look regular thrashings shouldn't happen. But they will happen from time to time. It's inconceivable to not get a single point from going behind. That shows an incredible lack of character from the team and tactical awareness from the manager. I mean if it's game over every time we go behind, that's only going to see us leave the league one way eventually, and it's not promotion.

What channel is it on? Going to try finding a pub that will play 1 screen of that over the Manchester derby.

Now that is sad as I asked nicely and it might help you understand my point of view. Only the other post of yours I quoted shows you know exactly what impact and influence the owner and past have on today. In fact it's part of your defence of Lampard. Not sure it's possible to recognise it for one club but not the other. So well done for sucking me in. At least that answered my prior question of whether it was deliberate or not. Helpful to know for the future. Stumped if I know how that's entertainment or enjoyable for you..

Could you answer my analogy question please? The one about the Warehouse.

Thanks. I'm not sure if it's willfully missing my points or lack of understanding. I'd be very disappointed if it was the former, what would be the point on going on a mb in that case?

My points are so far missed it's like a Reid thunderbolt sailing into the upper tier of the Blackburn End! I've shown how there is a ton of evidence that it won't work for these guys based on the past. I've also explained why I think that said past evidence is relevant to the new lot. So I think it's a bit of a pisstake to imply I'm being unreasonable in wanting results too soon (which wasn't even my point at all.) Last attempt: Imagine you work at a warehouse. The CEO of the company is crap and keeps not giving the Warehouse manager no budget year after year, delays on signing off on training and new equipment and the warehouse isn't in a good state. The company has several warehouse managers and at several points even adds in a site supervisor as a middle guy between the CEO and warehouse manager. Throughout it all the warehouse is a mess and does a really shoddy job with getting deliveries out on time. Now a new warehouse manager is appointed. However the same CEO is in charge, with the same culture and overarching ways of working. Do you think it's likely the new warehouse manager will succeed? Do you think it's ok for people to be sceptical that he'll do well?

With Potter I have some sympathy as he: a) has done well in his precious job. b) has a horrible injury list (Yes it's Chelsea and he still has a ton of talent but even so it's a long list and losing your no 1 keeper, your summer marquee signing and a raft of others is not ideal.) C) the owner is acting like a kid playing football manager. I get the impression that Potter isn't too involved in signings as it's such a scattergun approach and counter to what he has done previously. That can't help him build a team and style whatsoever. I get it's still a situation most managers would love to be in - all that talent and the owner signing a ton of players - and that's a strong argument against him. It's quite a flip side! But I do think said context perhaps warrants Potter a bit more time, albeit not irrespective of results for the rest of the season.

Ok, let's try this one more time! What I'm asking is what evidence is there that it will be different under this new manager/DOF when: - Venkys, who call the shots, are still in charge. - They - Venkys - have messed up constantly over 12 years through their rule. - We have had plenty of new managers and management structures (e.g. Paul Senior) and scouting nextworks (e.g. TMs European scouting network) which have all failed. - Waggot is still here. - And in fact we were in a very similar position the previous year which we botched. why, given all this evidence, is it all good and rosey now? Because the manager and DoF are new? But we have had new structures and personel before, so that doesn't really wash. Are Venkys suddenly going to run the club differently? Unlikely after 12 years. There's no evidence that this year is going to go any differently. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it. oh and before you say it optimistic outlook isn't evidence. In fact with Rovers it's often contrary to that! So it's a bit unfair to say people have no right to be worried given the last 12 years of issues.